Nanoha StrikerS - Generic Discussion

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by BatAttack

*sigh* No, no, I do get it.
If anything, flying in Mid-Childa should be less of a problem than on Earth.

Mid-Childans know about magic - there is no reason to hide it.

Flying mages are not that common - there is hardly going to be much congestion.

Mages have telepathic communication - traffic control for trained mages would be quite easy.
(devices also seem to be useful for this - it has been shows they can detect and track incoming aerial objects)

Aerial mages are MUCH more agile than vehicles - as long as you exercise caution, it is not dangerous.

The majority of A rank mages seem to be TSAB military officers - with such a position would come responisibility - surely they can be trusted to fly safely, especially if it is in the line of TSAB duty.


From what I have seen of mage flight, it looks safer than driving an automobile on an Earth road.

A pilot is not allowed to fly out of designated airlanes, they can't decide "Oh, I'm going here or there today" beceause not only would it create chaos for the air trafic controll, it would create panic on the ground.

Flying mages = shit hitting the fan. In other words, having mages fly would create panic.

The car bit was to show off Fate's car. And to be honest, I loved it.

Or wait, am I disqualified as a fan now?
I guess unconditional praise is the only allowed opinion.

Considering how many people are grumbling at the limiters, I doupt that.

However, you aproached the show as if it was the worst thing to ever happen, and that tends to put hardcore fans on edge. You may not have ment is as that, but that was the message that was received.

[BatAttack]

Originally Posted by Keroko

A pilot is not allowed to fly out of designated airlanes, they can't decide "Oh, I'm going here or there today" beceause not only would it create chaos for the air trafic controll, it would create panic on the ground.

Flying mages = shit hitting the fan. In other words, having mages fly would create panic.

I don't think the pilot analogy is an apt one.

Pilots fly aircraft - aircraft are large, clumsy, and full of fuel. A pilot has poor visibility and poor awareness of their air-space (they can be blind-sided easily).
They are not able to react well to imminent collisions, and if they crash, they can cause a lot of damage and injury, from the wreckage and any fuel explosions.


Aerial mages are agile. The can stop or change direction very easily, and have good awareness. To fly, a mage must have A-rank or higher abilities - they would certainly have a barrier jacket, so would easily survive a collision - even if they hit another aerial mage, they could remain in flight. Even if they fell to the ground, they are just a human type body.


I can't see Mid-Childans being panicked by flying mages.
Honestly, I'd find someone running on the sidewalk more panic inducing than a flying mage - they might knock over an old lady.
Unless A-rank mages are commonly irresponsible and reckless (which seems unlikely given how hard it seems to be to get that ranking) I can't see where the danger lies.

Mages who are reckless fliers could be fined.
If they are repeat offenders they could be suspended, or discharged from TSAB.
For non-TSAB mages, a flight license might be required.

Originally Posted by Keroko

However, you aproached the show as if it was the worst thing to ever happen, and that tends to put hardcore fans on edge. You may not have ment is as that, but that was the message that was received.

That certainly wasn't my intention.
I guess airing problems without balancing with equal parts praise made it look so.
Hopefully things will improve as the season progresses.

[Skane]

The TSAB mages are military units, and so far we have not seen "civilian aerial mages". It is not common practice for the military to parade their units in public view, just imagine if tanks rumbling on the roads were a common sight.

These A-ranked mages pack a lot of destructive power and it would be perfectly normal for non-Mage civilians to feel uncomfortable about flying "bombers", even if said "bombers" are not authorised to fire at will.

Skill has nothing to do with it. It is all about keeping the public peace.

Cheers.

[Erio]

Originally Posted by BatAttack

That certainly wasn't my intention.
I guess airing problems without balancing with equal parts praise made it look so.
Hopefully things will improve as the season progresses.

Its good to know that. I understand your points, but lets see,

That's what Nanoha meant to me, and it seems I won't be getting much this season.
Ground pounding and beating up on drones are probably my biggest dissapointments.

This is probably what most of us did not like about your comments. Seriously, you're basically saying that Nanoha was only good because of the mage fights. Sure, they were awesome, but Nanoha is primarily about character interaction. Proof is the first season. This is what most of us love about Nanoha, and is the reason why you see all the 4koma series, conversations and what-if scenarios we invent and have fun with. While this is your personal opinion, and I know we all respect that, we're just trying to change your mind. So I tell you also, dont take it personally.
Even so, I agree with you completely about the drones, and I do hope we will be getting mage enemies. Lots of them. And surely we will get them, hopefully soon.

I just hope Nanoha does not lose what made it unique, and does not
become a generic shounen action show (even a 'kick-ass' one), unrecognisable from the original series.

Knowing the way you think now, I'm sure by "what made it unique" you meant the mage fights. However, probably some of us understood it differently. For me, what's unique about Nanoha is, again, character interactions. So basically those lines made you contradict yourself, or so they seemed.

About flying, I completely understand you. I'm sure the writers did not make Fate get out of the car and fly immediately to gain a few more seconds so they could finish the episode where they wanted to. But, well, its not a plot hole or anything, its just something they had to do.
One thing I'd like to add is that mages would not just fly instead of using a car because flying consumes a lot of energy. Think of it as running vs using your car IRL. Surely, you will use your car.

And finally, the limiters. As someone said before, an AAA ranked mage could level an entire city, so it is understandable that the TSAB would nerf mages above that rank. The power of a AA ranked mage should be enough in most situations. Still, I also understand your concerns, and hopefully we will get more info about these limiters later.

Oh, and for the record, I'm not attacking you personally. These are just my comments.

[BatAttack]

Originally Posted by Skane

The TSAB mages are military units, and so far we have not seen "civilian aerial mages". It is not common practice for the military to parade their units in public view.

Depends what country you are in.


If keeping them out of sight is the main problem, having mages walking around would also seem to be an issue.
If the Mid-Childan public feel uncomfortable about flying "bombers", walking "tanks" probably would not make them feel much better.


To kill two bird with one stone (traffic-control and 'out of sight, out of mind'),
the mages could fly to a certain altitude vertically, before commencing any lateral flight.
Certain altitudes would be reserved for travel in different directions.
400m for north, 450m for north-east, etc. This would minimise congestion, and would keep aerial mages to the size of specks (jet aircraft high in the sky don't seem to freak people out, it's low flyers that do).

[Erio]

lol I think you guys watched way too much The Jetsons. There is no way anyone would have enough stamina to fly that much. Air Mages fly when there is an emergency (Fate in episode 5, the grunts in episode 2), but it would be stupid to waste precious energy flying around the city for no reason.

[BatAttack]

Originally Posted by Erio

This is probably what most of us did not like about your comments. Seriously, you're basically saying that Nanoha was only good because of the mage fights.

Knowing the way you think now, I'm sure by "what made it unique" you meant the mage fights. However, probably some of us understood it differently. For me, what's unique about Nanoha is, again, character interactions. So basically those lines made you contradict yourself, or so they seemed.

Hmmmm.. I DO like the characters. Fights are always more interesting to see if a character you are emotionally invested in is fighting.

However, lots of shows have likable characters - this is good, characters are pivotal to a show. What I though made Nanoha UNIQUE is the mage duelling, and the self consistent magic system - and that it was Mahou Shoujo with a tight plot (crazy!!).

What made the show likable is the characters (including the Intelligent Devices) and the great outfits (I can't get enough Barrier Jacket love).

Apolagies for apparent self-contradictions.
Reading back, I can see where I might have been mis-understood, and I'm sorry for it.

Originally Posted by Erio

About flying, [snip] But, well, its not a plot hole or anything, its just something they had to do.
One thing I'd like to add is that mages would not just fly instead of using a car because flying consumes a lot of energy. Think of it as running vs using your car IRL. Surely, you will use your car.

Hmmm... not a plot hole, but things like poor tactics and inefficient logictical and operational issues tend to irk me.

Regarding tactics, it looks like Teana (and Caro) have their heads screwed on properly. This makes me happy.


For mages of their power, flying looks fairly easy.
Nanoha was still in flight (though barely - her boot wings were flickering) after unloading Starlight Breaker and Divine Buster in S1. In her case, it looks like flying requires about 1% of her total power.

And while running is a bit much, I try to avoid using my car when I don't have to.


Limiters - it seems the TSAB do not trust their own mages, which is fair enough.
Unfortunatley, to me it looks more like a cheap plot device.

[Erio]

Originally Posted by BatAttack

Hmmmm.. I DO like the characters. Fights are always more interesting to see if a character you are emotionally invested in is fighting.

However, lots of shows have likable characters - this is good, characters are pivotal to a show. What I though made Nanoha UNIQUE is the mage duelling, and the self consistent magic system - and that it was Mahou Shoujo with a tight plot (crazy!!).

What made the show likable is the characters (including the Intelligent Devices) and the great outfits (I can't get enough Barrier Jacket love)

Haha, I have a friend that thinks just like you, except that he hates animes with little girls (almost all of them nowadays, huh?). I still made him watch Nanoha, and he liked the devices, mage dueling, and magic circles (as they resemble those of FMA's).

For mages of their power, flying looks fairly easy.
Nanoha was still in flight (though barely - her boot wings were flickering) after unloading Starlight Breaker and Divine Buster in S1. In her case, it looks like flying requires about 1% of her total power.

Hey, it IS Nanoha we're talking about. I remember in the A's to StrikerS comics that Hayate told Griffith that they did not need to rest for such small flight. However, since he was offering, I'm pretty sure anyone else would need some time to catch their breath.

And while running is a bit much, I try to avoid using my car when I don't have to.

I guess I should have said "to go somewhere far away", huh?

Limiters - it seems the TSAB do not trust their own mages, which is fair enough.
Unfortunatley, to me it looks more like a cheap plot device.

Even though I try to think otherwise, yes, it sure seems like one. I like to compare it to Bleach, because I think that, in Bleach, it makes sense. On the bright side, our Trio can fight without thinking about holding back, so its all good.

[BatAttack]

Originally Posted by Erio

Haha, I have a friend that thinks just like you, except that he hates animes with little girls

Little girls are great! Ichigo Mashimaro is one of my favourite anime ever.

I actually think the magic system in Nanoha is more self consistent than FMA's (which makes a big deal about having rules, but seems far more arbitrary).

Originally Posted by Erio

Hey, it IS Nanoha we're talking about. I remember in the A's to StrikerS comics that Hayate told Griffith that they did not need to rest for such small flight. However, since he was offering, I'm pretty sure anyone else would need some time to catch their breath.

Fair point. It must be tough being lowly A-rank..

Originally Posted by Erio

Even though I try to think otherwise, yes, it sure seems like one. I like to compare it to Bleach, because I think that, in Bleach, it makes sense. On the bright side, our Trio can fight without thinking about holding back, so its all good.

In Bleach, they have to earn their 'unlocks'. Early on at least, they make a big deal out of it. Characters must go through trials in order to reach bankai.

In Nanoha, their real ability is held back by a limiter - someone has to give them authority to use their full power. Any drama that will come of this seems kind of fake.. but I will wait and see.

Bleach gets a bit cheap though, when they start to give out bankai to characters that seem too weak to have it. Eventually everyone will have bankai... *yawn*

EDIT: Response to Skane about Bleach: Ah, the limiters for when they go to the mortal world? Oh, no... episode 121? No, haven't seen that far yet..

I like how you padded the episode number with a leading zero.. you are expecting the episode count to make it into the 1000's?

[Skane]

Originally Posted by BatAttack

~
In Bleach, they have to earn their 'unlocks'. Early on at least, they make a big deal out of it. Characters must go through trials in order to reach bankai.

In Nanoha, their real ability is held back by a limiter - someone has to give them authority to use their full power. Any drama that will come of this seems kind of fake.. but I will wait and see.

Bleach gets a bit cheap though, when they start to give out bankai to characters that seem too weak to have it. Eventually everyone will have bankai... *yawn*

Erio speaks not of Shikai/Bankai, but the limiters placed on the vice-Captains and Captains of SS. Refer to the recent Ep0121 for a refresher course.

[Hence the various Bleach parody jokes in this forum]

Cheers.

[Erio]

Originally Posted by BatAttack

Little girls are great! Ichigo Mashimaro is one of my favourite anime ever.

I'll be honest with you. I couldnt stand that series.

I actually think the magic system in Nanoha is more self consistent than FMA's (which makes a big deal about having rules, but seems far more arbitrary).

Now this is one of the main reasons why I love Nanoha. I think its the first anime I've seen that successfully blends magic and technology in almost perfect balance. (If you know any other anime that may have done this, do tell, as my mind is blank right now) Just look at the cartridge system! Up until I saw that, I always thought, action animes are either about magic or guns, but not both. Very good stuff.

Originally Posted by Skane

Erio speaks not of Shikai/Bankai, but the limiters placed on the vice-Captains and Captains of SS. Refer to the recent Ep0121 for a refresher course.

[Hence the various Bleach parody jokes in this forum]

Cheers.

That is correct, thanks Skane.

[Kikaifan]

I dunno, I probably prefer FMA's, just because as a world-by-analogy it's easy to understand by comparison to our own. The scifi elements in Nanoha leave it with way more unknowns that need explanations that will probably never come. I still want something like a timeline of the development of Alhazred, Belka, and Midchilda's reigns as advanced cultures. Did they overlap at all or were they separated by millenia? And how Midchilda has so many planets/moons so close to it. Thinkin' maybe one of them is really big and Midchilda and the others are all its moons...

[Chaos2Frozen]

Damn, should I continue? I hate to miss being bombarded due to work... I'm sorry that I lost my temper, but you rubbed me the wrong way after I had to hold my pee for 1+ hour on the bus (long story, don't ask...)

My reason for not liking what you've said is mentioned by Erio and Keroko already, so take it that I've copy and pasted what they've said.

The following however, is my input on your reply. Don't worry, I prefer to keep things simple for my sake.

Originally Posted by BatAttack

*sigh* No, no, I do get it.
If anything, flying in Mid-Childa should be less of a problem than on Earth.

Mid-Childans know about magic - there is no reason to hide it.

Flying mages are not that common - there is hardly going to be much congestion.

Mages have telepathic communication - traffic control for trained mages would be quite easy.
(devices also seem to be useful for this - it has been shows they can detect and track incoming aerial objects)

Aerial mages are MUCH more agile than vehicles - as long as you exercise caution, it is not dangerous.

The majority of A rank mages seem to be TSAB military officers - with such a position would come responisibility - surely they can be trusted to fly safely, especially if it is in the line of TSAB duty.


From what I have seen of mage flight, it looks safer than driving an automobile on an Earth road.

Originally Posted by BatAttack

I don't think the pilot analogy is an apt one.

Pilots fly aircraft - aircraft are large, clumsy, and full of fuel. A pilot has poor visibility and poor awareness of their air-space (they can be blind-sided easily).
They are not able to react well to imminent collisions, and if they crash, they can cause a lot of damage and injury, from the wreckage and any fuel explosions.


Aerial mages are agile. The can stop or change direction very easily, and have good awareness. To fly, a mage must have A-rank or higher abilities - they would certainly have a barrier jacket, so would easily survive a collision - even if they hit another aerial mage, they could remain in flight. Even if they fell to the ground, they are just a human type body.


I can't see Mid-Childans being panicked by flying mages.
Honestly, I'd find someone running on the sidewalk more panic inducing than a flying mage - they might knock over an old lady.
Unless A-rank mages are commonly irresponsible and reckless (which seems unlikely given how hard it seems to be to get that ranking) I can't see where the danger lies.

Mages who are reckless fliers could be fined.
If they are repeat offenders they could be suspended, or discharged from TSAB.
For non-TSAB mages, a flight license might be required.

Taking what you’ve said about pilots and planes not being a good analogy, do you think it’s okay for TSAB mages, to be parading around for all to see?

Begin able to fly practically means that you’re someone of reasonable capability and status. It’s the same as having government agents walking around with their big FBI or CIA letters on their forehead.

The key point is to be discreet.

If keeping them out of sight is the main problem, having mages walking around would also seem to be an issue.
If the Mid-Childan public feel uncomfortable about flying "bombers", walking "tanks" probably would not make them feel much better.

They don’t have to wear their Barrier Jackets when they walk, do they? So there’s no way to know if they’re TSAB mages, is there?

[Woden]

A soldier walking around in uniform is fine. A soldier walking around in uniform with a gun is sure to cause panic.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Woden

A soldier walking around in uniform is fine. A soldier walking around in uniform with a gun is sure to cause panic.

Yeah, but in both ways, they're bound to attract attention... Sometimes the bad ones, since there's little to no different being a soldier and a cop in Mid-Childa...

[Woden]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Yeah, but in both ways, they're bound to attract attention... Sometimes the bad ones, since there's little to no different being a soldier and a cop in Mid-Childa...

I wouldn't be surprised if Mid-Childa had two police forces.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

anyone think that the creators will include a whole episode showing the events that have happened in the past involving Nanoha, Fate, and Hayate??....i especially want to know if they will reveal to the rookies that....

Spoiler for ??:

Nanoha once got defeated so badly in battle, due to a surprise attack on the enemy....

i mean 10 years is a very BIG TIME SKIP and alot of things have happened....
well i dont want the creators to tell EVERYTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST 10 YEARS....just that one incident that i mentioned in the spoiler....

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Ultima_Rasengan05

anyone think that the creators will include a whole episode showing the events that have happened in the past involving Nanoha, Fate, and Hayate??....i especially want to know if they will reveal to the rookies that....

Spoiler for ??:

Nanoha once got defeated so badly in battle, due to a surprise attack on the enemy....

i mean 10 years is a very BIG TIME SKIP and alot of things have happened....
well i dont want the creators to tell EVERYTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST 10 YEARS....just that one incident that i mentioned in the spoiler....

It IS possible to assign one episode for the past events, but only if it's related.

But most of the time, I think they'll just leave hints from offhand remarks... Or the most just talk about it, no dramatic scenes.

[Nightengale]

I think it was mentioned SOMEWHERE in the Fan Anticipations formerly StrikerS Generic thread, that the some events during Blank of 6 Years would be covered in Drama CDs or something. I'm not sure who mentioned it though.

Granted, I'm expecting the "Nanoha-wtfpwned" thing to be brought up in StrikerS, but aside from that, I think we won't be getting much outlook on those years passed by in the anime.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

hmmm...yea if it is related to whatever is happening in the story, then there will be such an episode...i'm just really curious about what happened in that event, thats all

other than that, i've been hearing one person's rant about how the progression of StrikerS is different from the previous seasons....
To me, this kind of pace is a good change....instead of getting a 13 episode season, we get a 26 episode season, full of character development and alot of surprises...while i must admit, i do sometimes miss the old feeling that the past two Nanoha season's have given us (action, aerial combat, mage vs. mage/velka action, "right off the bat" episode 1 action, etc) , but this is just how things have to change.