Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll

[~Yami~]

I wonder who's summon Satsuki to come in right time.... lol
looks like even thought the movie was cut off, at least it has some effect to Satsuki's life (and maybe Ko)

yeah... it's irritating to see the Kissuiso's member only work for themselves.. Thanks to Nako for changing the atmosphere... I'm glad I can see Madam Manager's lots of smile in this episode... she's scary in early episode
the best scene would be when Sui-Satsuki-Ohana work together as waitress

also, anyone saw Koichi??? I'm expecting a romantic Bonbori between them but looks like it won't happen (I was trolled then)

[Triple_R]

Just to be clear: I'm not saying that I'd hand the Inn over to Ohana if I was in Sui's shoes, just that I could see Sui doing that.

Keep in mind that Sui had little if any managerial experience when she took over the Inn herself. As she said, her and her husband built it up from nothing.

My impression is that Ohana has won Sui over big-time (this is partly due to how Ohana sided with Sui on the Bonbori Festival - Ohana may not have realized it at the time, but she was perceived as taking Sui's side there, by everybody).

I think that Sui sees a lot of herself in Ohana.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Unfortunately a fairly second-rate episode. But one scene made up for everything: Okami-san with her daughter and granddaughter walking down the hall as waitresses together. Almost got tears in my eyes.

Agreed. As usual I tend to have the opposite reaction to any given HanaIro ep from most of the viewers. This was decent, but second-tier. The drama felt manufactured and overwrought, and Okada's insistence on gleefully emasculating her male characters is really tiresome. But the ep was almost salvaged by the lovely scenes of Sui working together with Ohana and Satsuki.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Just to be clear: I'm not saying that I'd hand the Inn over to Ohana if I was in Sui's shoes, just that I could see Sui doing that.

Keep in mind that Sui had little if any managerial experience when she took over the Inn herself. As she said, her and her husband built it up from nothing.

She and her husband had been in the business for a while - I don't think their boss, who introduced them to the inn deal, was setting them up for failure.

There's also the fact that the challenges of starting from scratch aren't the same as those of taking over. Sui's only employee at first was Beanman, who chose to follow them. If Ohana was to take over, she'd have to deal with the resentment from Enishi and Takako, and everyone except Jiromaru and maybe Nako thinking they know better than her about every issue. And might not be shy about telling her to her face, in public.

[hoarfrost]

Just when Enishi is beginning to look cool in my eyes. Suddenly, emasculation!

Keep it classy, HanaIro, keep it classy.

That aside, this criticism of him is unfounded. He made the best decisions he could make with the resources he had. A buffet style breakfast to allow more time to prep the later meals, good idea. Featuring work by local artists, not shabby. He broke up the argument when it started. These are the kinds of compromises and decisions you need to make when you run a business, even hospitality. Some might not like change, but then there will also be those inconvenienced by the status quo being inefficient. Is Hanasaku Iroha telling us to stick with tradition even when it only holds us back?

But Ohana comes in with her usual sentimental, inarticulate claptrap and suddenly Enishi's such a dolt and Ohana is so brilliant and competent. I'd like to see her in a management position for just a few hours. Or her mother with her commitment problems and general aloofness, that'll really play over well with guests.

Tl;DR Enishi is incompetent not because Enishi is incompetent, but because the plot demands it. The writer has it out to make him a boob even when there is no justification for doing so. Curiously enough, everything seems to go swimmingly for other's ideas even when there's no rational explanation for the discrepancy.

I'm watching this show eyes rolled at this point. I'm just so irked by this episode that I doubt I can even bring myself to enjoy the romantic resolution, as awkward and hamfisted as I'm sure it will be.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by hoarfrost

Just when Enishi is beginning to look cool in my eyes. Suddenly, emasculation!

Keep it classy, HanaIro, keep it classy.

That aside, this criticism of him is unfounded.

Not entirely, it isn't.

It's foolish for a typically low-active Inn to take on max reservations for a long period of time before first determining if they really have the capacity (re: staff) to handle that. Sui instinctively knew that they didn't. Enishi didn't even bother to consider the question.

Also, Enishi has lived in this town for a long time now. He should know what a big deal the Bonbori Festival is, and how each Inn/Hotel is expected to help with its preparations.

I mean, this is basic stuff.

Yes, Enishi has some decent ideas for tweaking the Inn a bit, and making it the most that it can be, but he really is a poor mid-to-long term planner.

But Ohana comes in with her usual sentimental, inarticulate claptrap...

How was she inarticulate or guilty of claptrap?

Worker morale is important, you know. And Enishi's approach was absolutely destroying worker morale. How long do you expect workers to make due on 3 to 4 hours of sleep per night?

It's actually a minor miracle that things didn't go worse than they did. The staff of the Kissuiso are one very hard-working and generally competent bunch (at their own specific positions).

[Guardian Enzo]

Enishi deserved better than he got this episode. To be slapped in front of his staff by his idiot wife when he finally shows the spine to stand up to his domineering sister and mother? The message from Okada seems to be, “Know your place in my world, Boy. This is what happens if you pathetic males try and overreach yourselves.”

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Enishi deserved better than he got this episode. To be slapped in front of his staff by his idiot wife when he finally shows the spine to stand up to his domineering sister and mother? The message from Okada seems to be, “Know your place in my world, Boy. This is what happens if you pathetic males try and overreach yourselves.”

Do you think Tohru will get through the final episode without being emasculated?

He's basically the only named male character left that's avoided this, lol.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Enishi deserved better than he got this episode. To be slapped in front of his staff by his idiot wife when he finally shows the spine to stand up to his domineering sister and mother? The message from Okada seems to be, “Know your place in my world, Boy. This is what happens if you pathetic males try and overreach yourselves.”

It's nice that he started growing a spine, but Takako had a point. They really weren't in position to refuse help.

Originally Posted by hoarfrost

Just when Enishi is beginning to look cool in my eyes. Suddenly, emasculation!

Keep it classy, HanaIro, keep it classy.

That aside, this criticism of him is unfounded. He made the best decisions he could make with the resources he had.

Partly his fault they were so stretched.

A buffet style breakfast to allow more time to prep the later meals, good idea.

Maybe, maybe not.

Featuring work by local artists, not shabby.

I don't know. I don't like how it put the stairs in shadow like that.

He broke up the argument when it started.

Uh... It'd have been great if he'd put Ren and Tomoe back to work, with clear instructions on what to do next. Crying at them? Not so much.

These are the kinds of compromises and decisions you need to make when you run a business, even hospitality.

It's all a bit too rushed, though. He should have seen it coming earlier.

Some might not like change, but then there will also be those inconvenienced by the status quo being inefficient. Is Hanasaku Iroha telling us to stick with tradition even when it only holds us back?

It's true the series hasn't been kind to change. The bottom line, though, is that it's down to customer satisfaction. The buffet thing isn't too bad, but it detracts a bit from the usual atmosphere the regular customers enjoyed.

Everyone being strained and the service slowing down, though? That's completely bad.

But Ohana comes in with her usual sentimental, inarticulate claptrap and suddenly Enishi's such a dolt and Ohana is so brilliant and competent.

Not so brilliant this time. It's Nako's sentimental claptrap which saved the day. Not that the girls don't have a point: it's not about rebelling against the manager. It's about saving the inn. Which they can't do without satisfied customers. And as I said in the previous episode thread, they also need the Union, so it's retarded to sulk at Ohana for paying their due there. (Sure, they can't help during the festival, but they came through when the girls went on their school trip, didn't they?)

I'd like to see her in a management position for just a few hours. Or her mother with her commitment problems and general aloofness, that'll really play over well with guests.

Satsuki may have issues in her personal life. It's unknown if that carries over in her professional one. She seems to do pretty well.

Tl;DR Enishi is incompetent not because Enishi is incompetent, but because the plot demands it. The writer has it out to make him a boob even when there is no justification for doing so. Curiously enough, everything seems to go swimmingly for other's ideas even when there's no rational explanation for the discrepancy.

No, Enishi is also incompetent all on his own. It's not about ideas. It's about planning and leadership. And self-respect: he should have quit years ago, instead of letting his mom slap him around in public.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Worker morale is important, you know. And Enishi's approach was absolutely destroying worker morale. How long do you expect workers to make due on 3 to 4 hours of sleep per night?

Eh. Morale was still high. Everyone was motivated to "save the inn". Even if that motivation took them to strange places.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Do you think Tohru will get through the final episode without being emasculated?

He's basically the only named male character left that's avoided this, lol.

Maybe this is why Tohru was such an irrationally popular character, because he’s that rare Okada male that isn’t made to look like a spineless jellyish and (usually) made to cross-dress.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Eh. Morale was still high. Everyone was motivated to "save the inn". Even if that motivation took them to strange places.

What would you call Nako's "sentimental claptrap" if not a sign of quickly worsening worker morale?

Also, we can see how the buffet approach was creating divisions between the cooking staff (Mr. Ren, Tohru, Minchi - all nicely arranged on one side of the room) and the waitress/cleaning staff (Tomoe, Nako - nicely arranged on the other side of the room). Minchi snapping off at Nako there was a clear sign that the situation was going bad.

[0utf0xZer0]

I always assumed that message behind the slap was "stop letting your inferiority complex get in the way of doing what needs to be done", but that's just me. Edit: As for Tohru, I didn't like him much initially but his goofball moments won me over - I now ship him and Minko simply because of the look on her face when he does stuff like write love on freaking sashimi or say he wants five kids. I think his agreement to the kidnapping plan was probably the turning point.

Felt this episode was pretty solid if not up to the high bar set by episodes such as 20 and the last couple. I'm wondering if the "must kissuisou change?" thread that features so strongly in this episode is going to end up paralleling Ohana's story in the last episode - not quite sure how they intend to wrap this one off.

P.S. Nice view of Tomoe's legs on that landing, does she wear her kimono the traditional way?

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Enishi deserved better than he got this episode. To be slapped in front of his staff by his idiot wife when he finally shows the spine to stand up to his domineering sister and mother? The message from Okada seems to be, “Know your place in my world, Boy. This is what happens if you pathetic males try and overreach yourselves.”

lulz. Well, he was being an idiot too. However, I would say, I was laughing at his misery when the episode was trying to be dramatic. This year, HSI is only outdone in unintentional comedy by Kaiji.

This episode was obviously Okada's thoughts on having to write the Kenshin remake.

But in any case, it was a good episode. Sometimes there is no point in trying to defy the obvious, and Sui was right in that overextending themselves would end up no good. Don't think about winning or losing, that's the wrong thing to worry about!

I'm a bit mixed on Nako's "I love Kissuo speech", was I supposed to take thay seriously?

But brilliant end btw where everyone helps. A nice tune plays as they head outside, looking at the beautiful scenery which is the remaints of this show's budget while we wonder how this will all end.

I also liked it when they were so tired, they starting falling asleep. Minko in particular fainting during class is pretty reminiscent of me in school,

[Pocari_Sweat]

Okada is a feminist. Discuss

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

Okada is a feminist. Discuss

Huge diffrence between a feminist, and a misandrist. Though she might actually just be a misanthrope and hate everyone.

[0utf0xZer0]

I don't think she's a general misandrist. It's hard to tell if Enishi is a attempt to create a lovable dweeb gone awry or just her wanting a chew toy character though. Jiromaru is clearly a personal troll directed at her former coworker Yamakan, and the crossdressing stuff isn't so much misandry as just one of those things girls who like anime think is moe. I mean, my girlfriend digs that stuff, keeps trying to convince me to crossdress as Hitagi.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

lulz. Well, he was being an idiot too. However, I would say, I was laughing at his misery when the episode was trying to be dramatic. This year, HSI is only outdone in unintentional comedy by Kaiji.

For me, Blood-C is the clear winner in the unintentionally hilarious department.

A misandrist, writing Kenshin? I shudder at the thought.

[ars89]

Nako said what i was feeling through the whole first half of the ep. Glad Takako slapped some sense into Enishi. Nice to see Sui work again. Interesting that Satsuki helped out as well. Where was Kou though. Oh well looks like Ohana will tell him her feelings. Hope Sui doesn't pass away though.

[hoarfrost]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Not entirely, it isn't.

It's foolish for a typically low-active Inn to take on max reservations for a long period of time before first determining if they really have the capacity (re: staff) to handle that. Sui instinctively knew that they didn't. Enishi didn't even bother to consider the question.

Also, Enishi has lived in this town for a long time now. He should know what a big deal the Bonbori Festival is, and how each Inn/Hotel is expected to help with its preparations.

I mean, this is basic stuff.

Yes, Enishi has some decent ideas for tweaking the Inn a bit, and making it the most that it can be, but he really is a poor mid-to-long term planner.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It's nice that he started growing a spine, but Takako had a point. They really weren't in position to refuse help.


Partly his fault they were so stretched.

I group these together because these are the only true faults of Enishi in this situation. He wasn't in a position to refuse help, but that could have happened differently than than it did. But that's more of a problem with Okada and her view of the opposite gender. He overbooked, but the other workers share responsibility for reasons I will elucidate on below.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

How was she inarticulate or guilty of claptrap?

It's inarticulate in the sense that people seem to be patting Ohana on the back for answering concrete problems with more or less formless solutions and concerns. Hell, Tohru points out time and time again that Ohana's strength is in her mindless energy, yet people really expect her to be able to run an inn to a higher calibre than her uncle? I can accept that Sui or even Satsuki are more gifted at this (and we haven't seen evidence that Satsuki has good managerial skills, just that she can spot a rather big rat coming) but that can't be serious.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Worker morale is important, you know. And Enishi's approach was absolutely destroying worker morale. How long do you expect workers to make due on 3 to 4 hours of sleep per night?

It's actually a minor miracle that things didn't go worse than they did. The staff of the Kissuiso are one very hard-working and generally competent bunch (at their own specific positions).

It seems to me that the employees at the inn, in their vigor to prove that they can make due without the manager, expressed a level of morale that didn't match up with their true work ethic. So that misjudgment isn't square on Enishi's shoulders. Everybody bit off a lot more than they could chew. You might say that a good leader would not have gotten caught up in the flow, sure.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Uh... It'd have been great if he'd put Ren and Tomoe back to work, with clear instructions on what to do next. Crying at them? Not so much.

That's pretty much how I interpret "stop fighting and get back to work".

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It's true the series hasn't been kind to change. The bottom line, though, is that it's down to customer satisfaction. The buffet thing isn't too bad, but it detracts a bit from the usual atmosphere the regular customers enjoyed.

Everyone being strained and the service slowing down, though? That's completely bad.

Customer satisfaction seemed pretty fine from where I was watching. We don't see anyone get particularly upset at a buffet breakfast and it solves a one time problem so the idea that it would leave regulars with a lingering negative opinion of the inn is unfounded. The relationship of a service provider to a customer is not one way and that is another one of my problems with Sui's dogmatic idea that it is. For all her pontificating about how you must address every flight and fancy of the regulars regardless of cost, it certainly doesn't seem to be helping the inn maintain itself financially. To that end it is an ideal that is not sustainable. If you look at it from that direction, Sui is as also not suited to running the inn, just that she'd last quite a bit longer than Enishi.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Not so brilliant this time. It's Nako's sentimental claptrap which saved the day. Not that the girls don't have a point: it's not about rebelling against the manager. It's about saving the inn. Which they can't do without satisfied customers. And as I said in the previous episode thread, they also need the Union, so it's retarded to sulk at Ohana for paying their due there. (Sure, they can't help during the festival, but they came through when the girls went on their school trip, didn't they?)

Right, spite is a poor motivation. However I take issue with the implication that one cannot be competent for less than ideal reasons, and ideal reasons will strengthen ones competance. It isn't necessarily true and I suspect that it is only employed to make Sui/Ohana/Nako look good at Enishi's expense.

We've got to be cognizant of the subliminal (and not so subliminal) messages that a piece of media is feeding us and I frankly find this one to be overly romantic and idealized.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

No, Enishi is also incompetent all on his own. It's not about ideas. It's about planning and leadership. And self-respect: he should have quit years ago, instead of letting his mom slap him around in public.

I agree and I too would leave a workplace where vague sentimentality gets you smashing success and concrete strategies get you bitch smacked and disregarded.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

and the crossdressing stuff isn't so much misandry as just one of those things girls who like anime think is moe. I mean, my girlfriend digs that stuff, keeps trying to convince me to crossdress as Hitagi.

Hmm, that reminds me of that funny part in Steins;Gate. It's unfortunate that S;G did it much better than Okada's wildest dreams.