Character Discussion - Lelouch

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

@Blade and morbosfist;

Excellent debate you two, I'm enjoying reading it very much.

If I may I would like to add a tidbit here about volcanic activitiy.
Volcanoes can erupt for a very long time (decades in some cases).

Mount St. Helens has been erupting since 2004 and Mount Kilauea (in Hawaii) is generally regarded as the world's most active volcano. It has been in a near-continuous eruption since 1983.

I completely missed this. I meant the major type of eruption, but this is a fair point. Depending on how much damage igniting that sakuradite did, more so than the immediate effects at least, rebuilding might be a problem. Still, the fact that they essentially drilled a giant tunnel directly down the vent speaks to some rather insane engineering principles.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

I completely missed this. I meant the major type of eruption, but this is a fair point. Depending on how much damage igniting that sakuradite did, more so than the immediate effects at least, rebuilding might be a problem. Still, the fact that they essentially drilled a giant tunnel directly down the vent speaks to some rather insane engineering principles.

I agree, we do not know how much damage was done.

And to be fair, I completely forgot Lelouch blew up Mt. Fuji until you guys started talking about it.
Which sucks for me because in my fanfiction I wrote that the Sakuradite mines were being used to mine for energy fillers...maybe it would have stopped after six years...but then again maybe not...thus I feel like an ass.

[morbosfist]

Eh, you can technobabble up some sort of explanation if you need to. The sudden jump in tech your story has (a bit much for my tastes, personally) could probably explain away a little lava.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by ncrushx

I meant how he wanted his goals to be. I don't get how you understood that. Even, if he did do that; it would provide no point. Would the world become better or not? All that effort would go down the drain. Lelouch knows what a Britannian is like, just don't deny that, whether its Schneizel or Cornelia, or the emperor.

Seriously, I answered this already. You're making this harder than it is.

We are back to the same answer I gave you. I don't think that would fix the mayhem that occured in R1.

Lelouch cannot deal with Schneizel because he didn't know. He is obviously outnumbered, his luck would be worse as that counts as evidence enough for Black Knights to be so idiotic to fall for had Schneizel died right then and there during the betrayal to Zero. By that time, Schneizel was on Avalon/Damocles; with only a primary defensive 9th Gen. Knightmare Frame. No way, Lelouch can get in, or Suzaku and probably without a counter to Freya at that time.

Schneizel never goes to the front lines if you didn't know, meaning Lelouch will always have to make the first move.

Britannia invading Japan:

Had something to do with Genbu or Kirehara after they wanted that (yes that was the reason), so all 3 steps don't even begin to work.

His ego is right, though; but your ego makes me want to strangle you.

what ???
i was talking about dealing with shnizel AFTER taking over britannia in ep 21
britannia might be bad under charles of shnizel, but Lelouch was emperor at that point
he has the entire britannian army at his command, knows where shnizel is hiding (cambodia) and has the advantage of having cut shnizel off from ALL of his potential allies in britannia
what advantage does he POSSIBLY gain by attacking the UFN and insuring that he must fight shnizel AND the black knights AT THE SAME TIME

once lelouch took the throne, all he had to do was sign a peace treaty with the UFN (ending the war and creating peace between all nations)
and spend his life reforming britannia to better suit his taste of how it should be (happens all the time throughout history)
he had the means, and had the support of most of the people of the world (on BOTH sides)
he just has an ego that wont let him

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by ncrushx

Lelouch cannot deal with Schneizel because he didn't know. He is obviously outnumbered, his luck would be worse as that counts as evidence enough for Black Knights to be so idiotic to fall for had Schneizel died right then and there during the betrayal to Zero. By that time, Schneizel was on Avalon/Damocles; with only a primary defensive 9th Gen. Knightmare Frame. No way, Lelouch can get in, or Suzaku and probably without a counter to Freya at that time.

Schneizel never goes to the front lines if you didn't know, meaning Lelouch will always have to make the first move.

Britannia invading Japan:

Had something to do with Genbu or Kirehara after they wanted that (yes that was the reason), so all 3 steps don't even begin to work.

His ego is right, though; but your ego makes me want to strangle you.

.... What?

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

.... What?

i know

[Revolutionist]

I doubt the UFN would've negotiated with Britannia, specially when the Black Knights wanted Lelouch DEAD. They pretty much controlled the UFN through Kaguya...

If he had to take out Schneizel he'd have to take out the Black Knights too sooner or later.

[bladeofdarkness]

hardly
the UFN leaders were all ready to come meet him in person to talk peace when he offered
he was pretty popular after all, and kaguya is NOT the ruler of the UFN, but simply its chairwoman
its like saying ban ki mun rules the UN

the black knights could have been reasoned with by showing them that despite shnizel's words, Lelouch really DID have the same goal in mind as they did
espeically since he can PROVE he didnt use geass on any of them
they only wanted Lelouch dead because shnizel gave them half the story
if given the other half, they would be more likely to give him a chance to prove himself

Lelouch would not have had to deal with the black knights in battle unless he chose to
which he did

[eaglei3]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

hardly
the UFN leaders were all ready to come meet him in person to talk peace when he offered
he was pretty popular after all, and kaguya is NOT the ruler of the UFN, but simply its chairwoman
its like saying ban ki mun rules the UN

the black knights could have been reasoned with by showing them that despite shnizel's words, Lelouch really DID have the same goal in mind as they did
espeically since he can PROVE he didnt use geass on any of them
they only wanted Lelouch dead because shnizel gave them half the story
if given the other half, they would be more likely to give him a chance to prove himself

Lelouch would not have had to deal with the black knights in battle unless he chose to
which he did

Explanation on the bolded part please

[bladeofdarkness]

his geass only works once on any given person
thats the reason why villeta was selected to watch over him

he can prove it by individually using his geass on any one of them under circumstances where others could see that he isnt abusing his power, but nevertheless using it on them

for example
gather all the people who claimed he used geass on them
have them all wear goggles over their eyes to protect them
and then have each one in turn removes his goggles and Lelouch geasses them to do some small unimportent thing (count till 10) while the others watch (and possibly, kill him if he tries anything bad)

the person who does the counting does not remember for themselves, but the others can confirm that
1)lelouch used his geass on him (which means he couldnt have used it before)
2)Lelouch didnt use his geass to do anything wrong to them
3)Lelouch cant use his geass on them ever again

its simple, and effective, and proves definitively that Lelouch had not used his geass on any of them
it may mean that he wastes his ability to geass them in the future, but he proves to them that he didnt use it on them before, and that they have no reason to fear him using it against them again

[Meatrose]

Originally Posted by eaglei3

Explanation on the bolded part please

He could gather them up and then use a test subject in order to demonstrate how the Geass only works once. He could let them chose something that they want him to Geass Tamaki into doing, like barking like a dog for 30 seconds, and when the effect wears off he could let them come up with another command for Tamaki. Then they'd see that it doesn't work the second time. He could then move on to Geassing them, one by one, into doing something really silly for a short period of time and the rest would see that he was in fact telling the truth.

Edit: Too slow...

[eaglei3]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

his geass only works once on any given person
thats the reason why villeta was selected to watch over him

he can prove it by individually using his geass on any one of them under circumstances where others could see that he isnt abusing his power, but nevertheless using it on them

for example
gather all the people who claimed he used geass on them
have them all wear goggles over their eyes to protect them
and then have each one in turn removes his goggles and Lelouch geasses them to do some small unimportent thing (count till 10) while the others watch (and possibly, kill him if he tries anything bad)

the person who does the counting does not remember for themselves, but the others can confirm that
1)lelouch used his geass on him (which means he couldnt have used it before)
2)Lelouch didnt use his geass to do anything wrong to them
3)Lelouch cant use his geass on them ever again

its simple, and effective, and proves definitively that Lelouch had not used his geass on any of them
it may mean that he wastes his ability to geass them in the future, but he proves to them that he didnt use it on them before, and that they have no reason to fear him using it against them again

And how would they know this limitation actually exists and isn't something Lelouch fabricated? We as the viewer know those facts about geass, the black knights don't. What you have done in this example is you are confusing omniscience knowledge of the viewer with what the characters know. It wouldn't be hard for someone such as Oghi to speak up and say "Hey, maybe he isn't really using geass at times during this test?"

In general, the problem with your testing method is it only works with something that we can scientifically get our hands on and see how it operates. It is impossible for the Black Knights to get their hands on Lelouch's geass, so it is impossible for them to fully determine the one use per person rule.

[bladeofdarkness]

villeeeeeeeeeettttttttaaaaaaaaaa....
there is a REASON why she was the one placed in charge of guarding lelouch

and its possible that kallen also knows about it (we know she knows the "eye contact: rule for example)

[eaglei3]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

villeeeeeeeeeettttttttaaaaaaaaaa....
there is a REASON why she was the one placed in charge of guarding lelouch

and its possible that kallen also knows about it (we know she knows the "eye contact: rule for example)

She was placed as the one watching Lelouch because she was the one to discover his identity in the first season through her investigations, so she was allowed to become head of the intelligence department watching his actions and hoping for CC to appear.

As for Kallen, she didn't even know if Lelouch had ever geassed her before. And if she did figure it out, they obviously didn't know the one time rule existed either as they were told to kill her in case she got geassed at the UFN meeting.

[bladeofdarkness]

villeta was placed in charge of the team because she could NOT be geassed anymore
thats why she was specificlly chosen for that task of watching over him
do you think the emperor would assign someone geass proof to that task un-intentionally ?
and thats why lelouch blackmails her rather then simply geass her into working for him
she knows that he geassed the rest of the stake out team, but he couldnt geass her

as for kallen
kallen doesnt know if she had been geassed or not
but it doesnt mean she doesnt know it only works once (she knows its other weakness after all)
and its implied that she agreed to the deal in order to talk to lelouch face to face without being forced to wear goggles (she was willing to risk death in order to talk to him)

[ncrushx]

The Emperor didn't assign Villetta to do it, it was the Britannian Intel or from where Rolo came I think. The Emperor knew all that before anybody more than likely, Villeta didn't even know about the 1 time thing.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by ncrushx

The Emperor didn't assign Villetta to do it, it was the Britannian Intel or from where Rolo came I think. The Emperor knew all that before anybody more than likely, Villeta didn't even know about the 1 time thing.

Dude, the intelligence service reported directly to the Emperor.

[ncrushx]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Dude, the intelligence service reported directly to the Emperor.

He wasn't caught anyway, with the help of Rolo. Besides, so what?

You think the Emperor spends his time reading their news, when he can watch what Lelouch and Rolo are up to.

[eaglei3]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

villeta was placed in charge of the team because she could NOT be geassed anymore
thats why she was specificlly chosen for that task of watching over him
do you think the emperor would assign someone geass proof to that task un-intentionally ?
and thats why lelouch blackmails her rather then simply geass her into working for him
she knows that he geassed the rest of the stake out team, but he couldnt geass her

as for kallen
kallen doesnt know if she had been geassed or not
but it doesnt mean she doesnt know it only works once (she knows its other weakness after all)
and its implied that she agreed to the deal in order to talk to lelouch face to face without being forced to wear goggles (she was willing to risk death in order to talk to him)

First, how exactly does Charles know that his geass is one time only at that point? Each geass is different in what they are capable of doing.

2nd, as I said, Villetta was placed on that team because she new Lelouch's identity. There would be no point having to convince her to watch this student at Ashford Academy because she knew. Episode five of season two talks about her becoming a baron for uncovering the identity of Zero. No where is it said she was given that spot because she can't be geassed anymore. No one but Lelouch and C.C. new that detail of Lelouch's geass.

[Kuroshinobu]

The part about not many knowing the limitations of Lelouch's geass are true. Him and CC are the only people I can remember off the top of my head.