2009-02-19, 00:22 | Link #321 | |
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Funding sources In May 2004, the New York Times reported that Media Matters has received "more than $2 million in donations from wealthy liberals" and "was developed with help from the newly formed Center for American Progress".[22] Everybody loves to use wikipedia for information, thought I'd just throw this out there. Got any more reliable links?
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2009-02-19, 00:26 | Link #322 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Age: 37
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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...rancisco-mice/ Spoiler for Summary:
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2009-02-19, 00:28 | Link #323 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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And I don't understand the money supply? Are my other posts really so wrong? Who exactly do you learn from? The media? It is not an ivory tower. Caring about the NOW is why the future (which has become the NOW) is screwed. EDIT: In fact let's discuss the money supply. You can have to first shot. Do you think what I'm saying is a joke? The contraction in certain numbers published by the Fed clearly shows there is either a massive withdrawal from the system from either transference or default. But that you disagree with me so vehemently shows that you clearly do not understand this. Actually after reading your post again I am lost. Yes savings can be used as leverage. When it is invested correctly there is an increase. In the long run supply is the driving force, not demand. What does this have to do with the money supply? And to debt? Tell me, what lies at the end of consumption when the money is spent on fraudulent excess? And even if it weren't wasted, what happens when what goes in less of a result than what must be paid to take care of the debt? Lol? Here is the Fed link: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/categories/24 Tell me what you see. EDIT 2: Wow I'm really bad at this...I do not discuss this often with J6P...I am not sure we are on the same page. Government spending does not only rest on what it stimulates in the now, the cost of the stimulus and how the resulting interest of that spending will be paid by the original investment must also be included since it's becoming obvious we will never pay off the national debt. In a perfect world many things would be possible, but the present isn't as such. In fact I think those who preach of government stimulus as the savior are the ones who sit in the ivory tower with no understanding of how debt works. Anyway, I didn't understand you at all since you seem to have gone off on some tangent. Some parts of it I do agree with, but those things don't really explain to me how your view of this money supply I do not understand works so...? Feel free to teach me. All I see is a mishmash of ideas that seem to have come from various sources that seem somewhat contradictory. It takes many assumptions that are near impossible to come to the conclusion that government spending will save us. A reset does not have to be a bad thing. It is impossible to directly discuss policy as everything translated to the real world situations depend on many conditions, but what is happening to the money supply (as shown in the above link) is something indisputable. This is the real world that economists who want to preach government intervention do not see in their "flow of goods" theories. The various sides of FDR's New Deal would be a great example now that I've read the other posts. Nobody knows for certain what conditions are present, only the numbers don't lie. And the numbers tell me what they wish to pursue is wrong if they do not want a monetary reset. If they tell you something different I would like to be educated in the matter. Otherwise I'm sure a quick google would turn up arguments and counterarguments on everything. Last edited by Cluelessly; 2009-02-19 at 01:14. |
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2009-02-19, 00:30 | Link #324 | |
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Location: Miami, FL
Age: 37
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2009-02-19, 00:30 | Link #325 | |
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It's major construction work to create recreation areas and to restore marshland that will resist flooding and storm surge Don't know if any of you have ever lived up in that area, but there isn't much flooding at all. This is something the state should be dealing with, not Federal. So people in Kentucky are paying for stuff like this in California. NOT what the Government was built for. Of course, California has a 42 billion dollar budget deficit and needs Uncle Sam to help it out. |
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2009-02-19, 00:31 | Link #326 | |
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Well time to eat dinner and take a shower before bed-time. Work comes early. Must pay taxes for those who won't do their part. Was fun discussing with you all.
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2009-02-19, 00:33 | Link #327 | ||
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Location: East Cupcake
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Times Quote:
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2009-02-19, 00:34 | Link #328 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I think justinstrife is providing an excellent picture of where he stands and his reasoning and sources of his data. It just isn't having the results he expects.
I also suspect I pay far more taxes than he does so that bit was irrelevant. Oh, I'm no more fond of the Democrats than the Republicans as an exploration of my posts over the years will show. I've been a Republican most of my life - but the GOP is *completely* without any credibility at this point just as their talking heads and media outlets have no credibility. Some of what the Democrats are proposing does address the problems and more importantly - mitigates the unavoidable blow in the hopes it doesn't spiral into lethality. The Republicans and their neocons have nothing. Their sole purpose seems to be to prevent any actions from succeeding or to lie loud enough to make some people think it failed. Certainly there's some crap in the bill.... but a lot of what has been labeled "pork" or "doesn't create jobs" is flat-ass lying or mischaracterization. The bill is named "The Recovery Act" -- some of it has the purpose of revitalizing failing infrastructure that was left neglected for 10 years. Repairing and improving infrastructure happens to *create jobs* ... just as "permament" as any job with a corporation can be these days. Part of me thinks a fair portion of the GOP neocons are simply are too young too remember not being in control (since 1994) and they're just completely flipping out. Yet they had control... for more than 10 years. Interestingly, Greenspan is basically on board with much of the concepts: Quote:
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Last edited by Vexx; 2009-02-19 at 00:54. |
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2009-02-19, 00:42 | Link #329 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Age: 37
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Your first point: 30 million dollars to protect marsh field mice in the Bay area(Nancy Pelosi's district) And your second was a link to an article from the conservative editorial section of the Washington Times, which accussed Pelosi of the same thing. Now that it was debunked, you changed your point to being tax dollars going to ANY state project. Dishonest, much? Also, there are economists who believe that government spending does in fact stimulate the economy. |
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2009-02-19, 09:38 | Link #330 |
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Just something.
I have no problem with government spending in a theoretical world since any number of assumptions can be made. And government spending can help build infrastructure, etc. We could go around in circles about this issue forever. I don't see why I am wrong about how the spending should not be with creation of debt that is impossible to pay off though. Government only knows how to spend and "change" is not change at all in what matters. Anyway: The trend is obviously not linear. I posted a more confusing graph earlier of Zero Hour, but I think this is easier to understand. Debt as we have debt now is not what debt used to be. Debt does become bad when there is no longer any return on that debt. Earlier there was talk about how the fact that consumer's had gone from a negative savings rate to a positive one (like 3%) was a bad thing. 3% is somehow a bad thing when the historical average is 10% on the low end...but we never talk about just what debt is or how money works. There is probably something wrong with the debt being made if M1 (currency in circulation + checkable deposits + traveler's checks) is somehow smaller than the monetary base. An effort to control the social fallout for what is to come is much better than kicking the can down the road some more. Even if somehow miraculously this "fixed" (not happening - notice the FOMC's desperate attempts to calm Ts) things there are many other problems with the monetary system that need to be addressed. Going by the timeline of credit bubbles bursting it seems a lot like this problem arises every time the generation that learned the lesson dies off. And every time we try to fix it in a variety of ways that still results in a decrease in living standards. Before it gets said, using devaluation as the solution yields the same result with a different set of prices. Another thing about inverting populations, if you double infrastructure but there is no double in workers you will not gain a proportional gain in supply. No matter how highly trained the workers only so much can be milked out of an individual. This was really long at first, but I cut off most of it so there's probably some stuff missing. Out of left field: fake wealth created from speculative investment is really really really really bad since we always go through periods of credit contraction. There is nothing bad about short positions that contribute to liquidity/work as hedges though. Most of the problem comes from re-leveraging up to hedge instead of decreasing exposure. |
2009-02-20, 05:36 | Link #331 | |
On a sabbatical
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wellington, NZ
Age: 43
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Since I'm kinda a local on this issue [Japan's economy], maybe i'll try to understand this.
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This allowed local companies to invest in capital resources much more easily than their competitors overseas, which reduced the price of Japanese-made goods and widened the trade surplus further. And, with the yen appreciating, financial assets became very lucrative. This caused much speculation. The easily obtainable credit had helped create and engorge the real estate bubble, and when the economy crashed, it crashed hard. So there you go - some parts from Wiki. |
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2009-02-20, 06:35 | Link #332 | |||
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Either way it's painful. Only time will tell what prediction of the future will hold true.
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2009-02-22, 20:48 | Link #334 |
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Location: CA
Age: 36
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http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm
It took me a good 1.5-2 hours for me to fully digest the whole thing. The information is well presented and most of the data comes from the government, but when it comes to statistic I'm always the skeptic. Fiscal conservatives... the greatest lie ever told.
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2009-02-22, 20:58 | Link #335 |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Frankly all of this government hubbub makes me realize one thing:
Stop asking the government to do anything. Obama isn't going to wave a wand and make your problems go away. Solve your problems yourself, and let the government help you however it can. Stop asking for handouts. |
2009-02-22, 21:02 | Link #336 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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And in my silly opinion, there isn't any long run because it is always cut short half-way through. |
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2009-02-22, 22:23 | Link #339 | |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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You have $100. You lend me $90. I invest that $90 into buying raw materials and employee costs. That $90 then gets deposited into another bank by my suppliers, and then said other bank lends 81, and thus the total amount of money created isn't $190, but $1000. |
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2009-02-22, 22:39 | Link #340 | ||
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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@iLney Welcome to fractional reserve lending? Whether it is evil or not is a different discussion, but Demongod86 already said what I would have. |
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