Bakemonogatari generic discussion

[Woland]

I know that episode 2 is around 2 minute longer: they added the ending (not present in TV edit) and the second part of Masturika Nishi (Diary?), episode 1 was the same, but I didn't check the others.

[DragoZERO]

Okay. Anyone know the video resolution the final episodes will be streamed in?

[extramf]

How do you understand the joke that relates to the kanji character?
For example, the jokes that Hitagi said in the car.

[ickem]

Originally Posted by extramf

How do you understand the joke that relates to the kanji character?
For example, the jokes that Hitagi said in the car.

It's pretty easy. You just have learn enough Japanese to understand.

[extramf]

Originally Posted by ickem

It's pretty easy. You just have learn enough Japanese to understand.

Thank you for your reply.
Because i am a Japanese, i can understand a joke of Hitagi.
I wanted to know, how do users from non-Japanese zone understand the joke.

私は日本人なので、ひたぎの冗談を解せるのだけれど、非日本語圏のユーザーがどう受け止めているか知りたか ったんです。

「人」が「夢」を見ると「儚」という字になるのは、日本人がよく口にする冗談だけど、漢字文化圏以外の人に は、ちょっとばかり難しいと推察します。
その上、「人」に「儚」と書いて「アララギ」と読ませて、新しい漢字の誕生というのは、日本人でも一瞬、考 えてしまう冗談だと思います。
阿良々木君が「恋人との初デート」に「儚」い期待を抱いていた「人」だから、「人」に「儚」と書いて「アラ ラギ」になるわけです。
こんな入り組んだ（あるいは、文化的な文脈に依存する）洒落まで、英語（あるいは他の言語に）訳すファンサ ブ職人には、敬意を表するしかありません。

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by extramf

Thank you for your reply.
Because i am a Japanese, i can understand a joke of Hitagi.
I wanted to know, how do users from non-Japanese zone understand the joke.

私は日本人なので、ひたぎの冗談を解せるのだけれど、非日本語圏のユーザーがどう受け止めているか知りたか ったんです。

「人」が「夢」を見ると「儚」という字になるのは、日本人がよく口にする冗談だけど、漢字文化圏以外の人に は、ちょっとばかり難しいと推察します。
その上、「人」に「儚」と書いて「アララギ」と読ませて、新しい漢字の誕生というのは、日本人でも一瞬、考 えてしまう冗談だと思います。
阿良々木君が「恋人との初デート」に「儚」い期待を抱いていた「人」だから、「人」に「儚」と書いて「アラ ラギ」になるわけです。
こんな入り組んだ（あるいは、文化的な文脈に依存する）洒落まで、英語（あるいは他の言語に）訳すファンサ ブ職人には、敬意を表するしかありません。

Proper translation.

[ickem]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Proper translation.

Proper translation is pretty hard. I guess the best way is to use a similar pun, but that loses meaning too. Take extramf's example for instance. 儚 means fleeting or transparent and is made out of the dream kanji (夢) and the person radical (人) so "a person who dreams gives birth to the word 'fleeting''' just doesn't have the same impact since you only get the meaning, but not the visual. And I don't there actually a way to work 人+儚 in English since it's also pronounced Araragi. This was one of the jokes that I left untranslated in chapter 3, if I remember right. 儚 is actually a good word to describe translation as well.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by ickem

Proper translation is pretty hard. I guess the best way is to use a similar pun, but that loses meaning too. Take extramf's example for instance. 儚 means fleeting or transparent and is made out of the dream kanji (夢) and the person radical (人) so "a person who dreams gives birth to the word 'fleeting''' just doesn't have the same impact since you only get the meaning, but not the visual. And I don't there actually a way to work 人+儚 in English since it's also pronounced Araragi. This was one of the jokes that I left untranslated in chapter 3, if I remember right. 儚 is actually a good word to describe translation as well.

Let me try...

If you think about it... dreams are fleeting.

like roses they last but a meager second in the eye of the universe.

Using the example above you seem to be describing a frivolous person.

A person who is prone to fantasy and daydreaming who's real life is mired by their inability to deal with reality.

Someone whos life could be seen as, frivolous, unimportant to the universe ?

End try....


Most English speakers do not read enough good English literature.

So we have trouble when translating, because we barely master our own language.

We don't have enough literary references to draw from to make clear the ideas being put forth in the Japanese text.

Language is just a method of communicating ideas, so I am sure the ideas can translate... but the trouble is, how do we construct the words to convey the ideas.

A teacher once told me, in order to master Spanish you have to master English.

Our English building blocks are very poor on average, so translation and fan-subbing will always be a challenge.

Right now, as a native speaker I struggle to improve my own native tongue since I really realize that it makes my mind work in a more clear and concise manner. I can create and communicate my ideas more clearly.

Therefore it may be possible that once my native linguistic system is up to par, i could orthogonally transfer that skill toward my learning of Japanese (not the structure but the improved way of translating communicating ideas)

[extramf]

Originally Posted by ickem

儚 is actually a good word to describe translation as well.

ickem reach the ground of the Zen.
珍重万歳、珍重万歳

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

like roses they last but a meager second in the eye of the universe.

Zetsubo, your translation resembles "The Sick Rose" by William Blake a little.
*wonderful*

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by extramf

Thank you for your reply.
Because i am a Japanese, i can understand a joke of Hitagi.
I wanted to know, how do users from non-Japanese zone understand the joke.

私は日本人なので、ひたぎの冗談を解せるのだけれど、非日本語圏のユーザーがどう受け止めているか知りたか ったんです。

「人」が「夢」を見ると「儚」という字になるのは、日本人がよく口にする冗談だけど、漢字文化圏以外の人に は、ちょっとばかり難しいと推察します。
その上、「人」に「儚」と書いて「アララギ」と読ませて、新しい漢字の誕生というのは、日本人でも一瞬、考 えてしまう冗談だと思います。
阿良々木君が「恋人との初デート」に「儚」い期待を抱いていた「人」だから、「人」に「儚」と書いて「アラ ラギ」になるわけです。
こんな入り組んだ（あるいは、文化的な文脈に依存する）洒落まで、英語（あるいは他の言語に）訳すファンサ ブ職人には、敬意を表するしかありません。

It depends on the fansubber.... some of them provide footnotes or addendum guides. Some just ignore it completely.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by extramf

ickem reach the ground of the Zen.
珍重万歳、珍重万歳


Zetsubo, your translation resembles "The Sick Rose" by William Blake a little.
*wonderful*

I didn't know that

Thanks.

Funny you mention Zen.

There is something I learned about language while researching zen.

Improve your language improve your thoughts.
Improve your thoughts improve your language.

Many English speakers have bad linguistic habits that ignore precision.

As a result we tend to have muddled and imprecise thoughts.

Therefore this condition hinders our ability to clearly and precisely translate from one language to another.

The fact is we think using language.

Therefore if we cant use our native language very well, then it follows that our thoughts cannot be formulated well also.

Lord knows I need help to master English even though it is native to me.

The most powerful tool available to the human mind to facilitate reason is language. He who masters language can inherently, if he so chooses, master reason.

[epl]

From what I read from another trusted forum, the blurray has an addition audio track in the eps that was "written by Nishio Ishin where the cast comments what is going on in character"

[FRS]

Originally Posted by epl

From what I read from another trusted forum, the blurray has an addition audio track in the eps that was "written by Nishio Ishin where the cast comments what is going on in character"

That must be epic

[apr]

Originally Posted by FRS

That must be epic

They spend 5 minutes discussing the breakdown of working/lazy ants.

[extramf]

Originally Posted by Vexx

It depends on the fansubber.... some of them provide footnotes or addendum guides. Some just ignore it completely.

You are totally right.
Thank you for your answer.

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Improve your language improve your thoughts.
Improve your thoughts improve your language.

I do not know the words. It is a splendid proverb.
The following words are included in the doctrine of the zen.

教外別伝/kyougaibetsuden
不立文字/furyuumonji

「教外別伝」There is Satori that Zen priests aim at outside a doctrine.
「不立文字」Satori cannot be expressed with words. All sutras are signposts to Satori.

This doctrine doesn't disregard the language.
This means that Zen priests need to polish linguistic competence.

Apart from it.

here is an interview of NISHIO Isin as follows.
http://blog.livedoor.jp/geek/archives/50852177.html


He said.
「アニメ化も実写化も漫画化もドラマＣＤ化も出来ない、メディアミックス不可能な小説は果たして書けるのだ ろうか」
"Am I able to write novels that can not be adapted as the animated movie?"

That novel is Bakemonogatari.

Much expression depending on Kanji appears into Bakemonogatari novels.
I feel admiration for the ability of the Shaft very much.

[quigonkenny]

So does anyone know if any sub group is going to be rereleasing episodes 1 and 2 (and later once they come out) with subbed commentary tracks? The in-character commentary is such an incredibly awesome and original idea that I can't believe someone hasn't released a dual-subs version already. Is it more work than I'm thinking it would be (a little more than a normal episode)?

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

So does anyone know if any sub group is going to be rereleasing episodes 1 and 2 (and later once they come out) with subbed commentary tracks? The in-character commentary is such an incredibly awesome and original idea that I can't believe someone hasn't released a dual-subs version already. Is it more work than I'm thinking it would be (a little more than a normal episode)?

I imagine its the same work as releasing an episode with two language tracks. Some groups have done BD releases, but no extra track. We can only hope someone, like THORA, does.

[Malkuth]

A not so reliable (and NSFW) source says that the first volume surpassed even K-On! on sales ... should I have hope for the future (i.e. can someone confirm)?

Maybe we'll see the rest of the novels or other of the writer's works animated in the future

[Azuma Denton]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

A not so reliable (and NSFW) source says that the first volume surpassed even K-On! on sales ... should I have hope for the future (i.e. can someone confirm)?

Maybe we'll see the rest of the novels or other of the writer's works animated in the future

Well's Nisio Isin other work, Katanagari (CMIIW) is already on production and will come out as OVA next year...

Browse on youtube for its preview...

[Pellissier]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

(i.e. can someone confirm)?

The not so reliable site is correct.

It's being discussed in the Merchandise Thread, here.