Why is Gundam Seed Destiny so controversial?

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by Thousand Mistress

I think one of the problems were the mecha.
Making the mecha the same as from the first series (especially Impulse, Strike Freedom and Legend), it makes it even less boring to watch.

Yeah the Impulse was to super robotish for my taste I also wish they would have held off on the dragoons on mobile suits until GSD and maybe introduce AI like the MD from Gundam Wing to add some variety.

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Dullindal wanted to make a world of genetic determinism, that means genes, period, Naturals, Coordinators, or otherwise. Your genes decide whether you live or you fail.

That would pretty much gaurantee coordinators would be the "choosen people" though and naturals would turn into essentialy a slave race though since there genes would be alter so they were the best candidates for positions of power, prestige and wealth. I realize the genetic engineering isn't 100% effective but it works well enough to keep the naturals down and make genetic determinism a very benifical path to coordinators.

[Triple_R]

While a secondary problem, I also think that Gilbert's Destiny Plan not being expounded upon hurt this anime.

Something to keep in mind here is that the Coordinators are already well down the path that Gilbert wants to take them further on. Heck, that's a big part of what Gundam Seed's universe is all about - humanity being divided over using human genetic engineering on a massive scale (Coordinators) or choosing not to (Naturals).

In some ways, Gilbert's ideas are just a logical progression of what the Coordinators are already doing. What I took from Gilbert's admittedly hilarious promotional video for the Destiny Plan is that people will be genetically engineered to be proficient at certain jobs (you'd engineer so many people to be good mechanics, so many to be good doctors, so many to be good soldiers, etc..., etc...), and so Gilbert's idea is that people will no longer need to worry about having lives that they're dissatisfied with (in the sense that everybody will be good at what they do).

Or, at least, that's the sense I get. I don't know for certain because the Destiny Plan wasn't fleshed out enough, imo. The anime never makes it perfectly clear why the idea is as bad as Kira and Lacus make it out to be.

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by GundamFan

That would pretty much gaurantee coordinators would be the "choosen people" though and naturals would turn into essentialy a slave race though since there genes would be alter so they were the best candidates for positions of power, prestige and wealth. I realize the genetic engineering isn't 100% effective but it works well enough to keep the naturals down and make genetic determinism a very benifical path to coordinators.

Not quite. I mean, you don't control where good genes come from, Coordinators basically means choosing all the good genes and putting them into one person, but even then, the process isn't exactly perfect, which is why Kira is the "Ultimate Coordinator", because in his case, the process went PERFECTLY.

And well, good genes do develop naturally by well..err, Naturals, so while the Destiny Plan would benefit Coordinators yes, don't mean Naturals will get thrown out the window as well.

Destiny Plan is basically...well, fitting people according to their "genetic destiny". Basically means if a person's genes fit for a certain job, then that would be his job. But of course, as many people would attest to, just cause our genes said so, don't mean we wanna take that job.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Not quite. I mean, you don't control where good genes come from, Coordinators basically means choosing all the good genes and putting them into one person, but even then, the process isn't exactly perfect, which is why Kira is the "Ultimate Coordinator", because in his case, the process went PERFECTLY.

And well, good genes do develop naturally by well..err, Naturals, so while the Destiny Plan would benefit Coordinators yes, don't mean Naturals will get thrown out the window as well.

Destiny Plan is basically...well, fitting people according to their "genetic destiny". Basically means if a person's genes fit for a certain job, then that would be his job. But of course, as many people would attest to, just cause our genes said so, don't mean we wanna take that job.

Ditto. Keep in mind that genes are genes, and just because Coordinators have more of good ones, doesn't mean Naturals can't have the some of the same good genes. By choosing a "destiny" for each person, only the person's strongest genes are exploited, and as such, being a Natural as opposed to a Coordinator doesn't necessarily mean you start off inferior at what you do.

If anything, this solves the whole Natural-Coordinator conflict to a degree, which of course was Dullindal's intent anyway.

[justavisitor]

Dullindal is just not evil enough...he should make million of his clone and throw the lines something like "the gene determines that I am the best ruler of this universe and I shall live/rule forever!!" Then the audience has the public enemy #1, shinn has the excuse to switch side, then the story would have been more exciting

Considering that this is not the "what if" thread, so I would stop here XD

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Not quite. I mean, you don't control where good genes come from, Coordinators basically means choosing all the good genes and putting them into one person, but even then, the process isn't exactly perfect, which is why Kira is the "Ultimate Coordinator", because in his case, the process went PERFECTLY.

True but I never said or implied the genetic engineering process they were generally using on the coordinators was 100% prefect, the typicial results we have seen and from whay we know though due seem result in freakishly high mental and physical abilities. I'm not trying to say coordinators are prefect or anything it just seems that the typicial physical and mental capabilities of coordinators fall easily into the same level of what the top 5% of naturals are capable of doing.

And well, good genes do develop naturally by well..err, Naturals, so while the Destiny Plan would benefit Coordinators yes, don't mean Naturals will get thrown out the window as well.

The thing is though most attributes are influenced by multiple genes and while they do occur naturally but very rarely do they equal a level where they compare to that of a typicial coordinator. Take MS pilots as an example as far as we know of only one natural posses a comparable hand eye coordination to that of a coordinator Rena Imelia. My point is even with gene manipulation your not going to get 100% match in most cases to positions since there is going to but multiple genes involved but still with the enhancements they receive as a whole coordinators tend to given an advantage in general over naturals.

Destiny Plan is basically...well, fitting people according to their "genetic destiny". Basically means if a person's genes fit for a certain job, then that would be his job. But of course, as many people would attest to, just cause our genes said so, don't mean we wanna take that job.

See I think it's going especially true among naturals since the eventual shake out once the plan is actauly implemented would be coordinator would have most of the higher eductation career paths locked in while the natural would left with things like retail, janitoral, or maybe some light industrial work and whether they want to or not they need to keep some naturals around since they still have fertility problems.

[monster]

Let's just say this:

1 Kira Yamato is iving proof that the ultimate coordinator project is not impossible to achieve. So some time in the future, somebody may still rediscover the technology to create ultimate coordinators and perfect it to give a better success rate.

2. If they know what genes would be suitable for a desirable job, there's no stopping a parent from having their child genetically engineered to posses those specific genes.

[Paladinoras]

The main issue of the Destiny Plan isn't the biasness, it's the fact that they're taking away the people's free will, which is why Kira opposed it. Or at least, I'd prefer to believe it was that rather than "HURRDURRR, BECAUSE LACUS BABY SAID SOOOO"

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

The main issue of the Destiny Plan isn't the biasness, it's the fact that they're taking away the people's free will, which is why Kira opposed it. Or at least, I'd prefer to believe it was that rather than "HURRDURRR, BECAUSE LACUS BABY SAID SOOOO"

Well the biasness is a rather large problem with the Destiny plan but it's also the sort of thing that Lacus and Kira wouldn't have thought of either since they opposed the plan on the ethical grounds that it robs people of free will. The bias issue is more of implementation problem that would have probably required a level of acceptance of the destiny plan that they never had, before they would even think of it.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

The main issue of the Destiny Plan isn't the biasness, it's the fact that they're taking away the people's free will, which is why Kira opposed it. Or at least, I'd prefer to believe it was that rather than "HURRDURRR, BECAUSE LACUS BABY SAID SOOOO"

A running joke about the Destiny Plan was that it was basically Communism IN SPACE~!

Based on what I heard, it's supposed to be a genetic caste system. It was explained in brief detail in one of the sidestory mangas, but did the series and the TV movies describe it?

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

A running joke about the Destiny Plan was that it was basically Communism IN SPACE~!

Based on what I heard, it's supposed to be a genetic caste system. It was explained in brief detail in one of the sidestory mangas, but did the series and the TV movies describe it?

In the tv series Lacus ran down with the crew of the Archangel what she found out in space which is we first heard about Destiny plan and got a brief description and there was also little commerical produced by the Plants they showed too we saw in that 3 color code caste green being top one, red being the bottom one.

[rakusukira]

they should have still made Destiny a story about Kira.. we barely know Kira's past aside from being an ultimate coordinator.. what if other experiments survived and wanted to kill kira?? they should have made it that way, really.. i think it was in the..

Spoiler for kira:

seed astray/ side stories about kira's brother canard pars.. man, they should have made canard a central antagonist in Destiny.. shinn would have been better off as a subordinate

i personally dislike shinn.. from the very beginning of destiny i was like "where is kira??"

i really thought in destiny, they would delve in deeper into Kira's character and past

[~Yami~]

GSD failed because Dulindalll is too weak against Archangel's team
Shinn as main character is also a bad idea

[GundamFan]

Well Shinn was definetly a character with some major flaws but most likely that was intentional so there would be personal growth that never happened once they decided to switch the focus on Kira though.

[Paladinoras]

What's there left to delve in Kira's past? O_o

Pretty much everything is known, except for who is Kira's real mother.

[Von Himmel]

Actually, the way Kira became the main hero at the middle of the series (even though he might've the right reason to be hero at that time) is what I think that makes GSD fails

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

What's there left to delve in Kira's past? O_o

Pretty much everything is known, except for who is Kira's real mother.

I thought they confirmed that Ulen's wife Via Hibiki was Kira's real mother.
The problem with Kira is they switched over to him as the protagonist mid series because he was doing better in fan polls and I think they just sorta winged it from there since the orginal structure of the series was gone.

[Paladinoras]

Well, yeah Ulen's wife, but I mean, his parents' history were never really delved upon by the staff.

[Kusa-San]

I dont agrre with those who says that's Kira fults if Destiny failed. I think, it's more Athrun fault than Kira's. Athrun had more screentime than him and for nothing. He made the same mistake than in the previous season etc...

Now, Kira has still a lot of potential. For exemple what about the ultimate coordinator project ? Kira is after all the only ultimate coordinator so why no one search for him ? What about Canard and Kira relationship ? etc...We need more development about the whole ultimate coordinator project. So I hope the film will be about that and not about again an EA against Zaft.

[aeriolewinters]

We need more development about the whole ultimate coordinator project

This should be the third season. Also Ever wonder why all subjects of this project was male? Could there be a female subject?