Tsuki ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu (月が導く異世界道中) [WN]

[Hokoga]

Originally Posted by lexlexz

why do you think its a god?
is it because makoto is to op that only a god could escape him?

The reason I used a question mark [?] is because I'm not sure if it's a god who interred, but there hasn't been that many people(if any) so fare that can give Makoto a sense of danger.

[cttica]

Originally Posted by Hokoga

The reason I used a question mark [?] is because I'm not sure if it's a god who interred, but there hasn't been that many people(if any) so fare that can give Makoto a sense of danger.

Spoiler for dont know:

he sees a golden light

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by cttica

Spoiler for dont know:

he sees a golden light

goddess or root then.

[Morilinde]

The manga is quite interesting in regards to the introduction of the heroes. And the demons know a lot and they can even predict how the respective country handles their hero. Now I am curious what Ema thinks about Makoto and his two companions. Something along the line of "you are too powerful plaese learn restraint" ?

[Tenzen12]

I would say she thinks same thing as anyone in Asora: Makoto can't do wrong and if he decide commit genocide or two, it will be for good reason.

[Enigma29]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I would say she thinks same thing as anyone in Asora: Makoto can't do wrong and if he decide commit genocide or two, it will be for good reason.

Still with this kind of thinking, huh?

The Asorians aren't the people from Nazarick, you know?

Quite a few of them have noticed Makoto's flaws, Ema included and have mentioned it in the story.

Except for Mio and Tamaki, Tomoe and Shiki were trying to change some of Makoto's values since they were concerned about a few things.

Tomoe has been trying to keep Makoto from dealing with too much darkness, in order to keep him from become something that they already know, lies within Makoto and surfaces during battle. Tomoe even purposely changes the mood sometimes when she sees that Makoto is entering that state, like with Samal's battle.

They'll obey his order and stand by him, of course, but not because they think Makoto can't do wrong, but because of their loyalty and the fact that they themselves don't care about the lives of the outside races apart from a few individuals.

[Tenzen12]

I don't think Shiki tries change Makoto,n first place things like morals and cinsience just recently started return to him. He might go in that direction later though. Tomoe in other hand is exactly how you described her and Tamaki is Tamaki.

Rest of Asota revere Makoto and that into certain degree also include Ema.

[Morilinde]

Well if you think about it most of the races who have migrated to Asora have never seen Makoto's bad sides. For example the Gorgons are thankful since he is able to help them find partners for 'breeding' and that they can live a more normal way. Only his closest companions have seen his 'faulty' side. Let's hope Makoto never goes 'full rage' mode in Asora

[Hokoga]

Shiki wanted Makoto to get closer to the students, but it didn't really happen like he wanted, which kind of made Shiki frustrated about it.

At least that's how I remember it, I think it was brought up in a talk with Shiki and Tomoe and then Tomoe had to remind Shiki of the bad things he had done as a lich.

[Morilinde]

I wonder how Princess Lily would have reacted if Makoto would have been the hero they got. Probably something along the line of "he is ugly!" Though Makoto might have been more respectful towards her subordinates since he is, well, 'old-fashioned'. The level-measuremnt would have been hilarious (Level 1) and their experiments with the weapon fusing would probably not work (that's assuming Makoto woudl have gotten the same skills as he has now)

[Enigma29]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I don't think Shiki tries change Makoto,n first place things like morals and cinsience just recently started return to him. He might go in that direction later though. Tomoe in other hand is exactly how you described her and Tamaki is Tamaki.

Rest of Asota revere Makoto and that into certain degree also include Ema.

Shiki was trying to make Makoto get closer to his students and also try to get rid of some of the prejudice he has towards hyumans. That's what Shiki and Tomoe spoke about.

Both of them also feared that Makoto had little regard towards life and was afraid that he might "enjoy killing" if he went too far.

Yes, but you said that they don't think that Makoto can do any wrong, like its an establish fact, when there wasn't even any indication of that in the story.

Their admiration and loyalty comes from seeing his power and being grateful for what he gave to them. That's why they would stand by him, even if he does something like commit genocide, not because they don't think he can't do wrong, but because he values their lives over others.

Plus, do they really care about the lives of the other races?

About "Makoto can't do wrong"...

When Haruka said Makoto was incompetent, Levi didn't deny it and Lime was also aware of it.

Beren's conversation with the dwarf chief made it clear that he knew that Makoto wasn't really intelligent, but just had a lot of knowledge.

Ema is trying hard to change Makoto's image into that of a ruler and gets upset each time he does things wrong.

Their loyalty comes from admiration and being grateful towards him, but nowhere in the story were they viewing him as a perfect being. They do revere him as a god though, since he technically is a god and has given to them what even the goddess couldn't or didn't.

---

And another thing. You keep bringing up how Makoto is a threat to that world, but you do realise that the other heroes are far worse right now right?

Tomoki is currently on a path to destroy the entire world with his charm ability. Lorel Union is proof of how dangerous he has become.

Hibiki wants to eradicate the demons or at least bring them to a point where they became slaves, hoping that the discrimination would slowly fade away, but as our history has proven... slavery only makes it worse. Afterwards she is trying to bring democracy to the world, even if it meant that she would leave it to future generations and because of that, future wars are already set in stone.

Both the heroes have already brought trouble to the world. On the other hand, what have Makoto accomplished?

He has brought prosperity to a few towns and countries.

Diminished some of the prejudice towards demi-humans.

Has already trained up a few students who I can see would bring change to the world in the future.

His existence also puts the other major countries in check. They don't want to be involved with places he is related to. There are still some foolish ones, but they will soon learn that they made a mistake messing with him.

For all they have accomplished, Makoto is the one closer to becoming the world's salvation than any of the other heroes. He does have many flaws, but he learns something through each encounter.

I also get why you would view him as dangerous, but anyone with power are technically a threat. It all depends on how he uses it and now he is far from becoming the other Makoto's in the other realities.

Right now, it's the heroes that are the bigger threat. Even if Makoto has more power and has a bigger threat level, he has done far more good than any of the other heroes.

[ShadowSamurai365]

Originally Posted by Enigma29

Shiki was trying to make Makoto get closer to his students and also try to get rid of some of the prejudice he has towards hyumans. That's what Shiki and Tomoe spoke about.

Both of them also feared that Makoto had little regard towards life and was afraid that he might "enjoy killing" if he went too far.

Yes, but you said that they don't think that Makoto can do any wrong, like its an establish fact, when there wasn't even any indication of that in the story.

Their admiration and loyalty comes from seeing his power and being grateful for what he gave to them. That's why they would stand by him, even if he does something like commit genocide, not because they don't think he can't do wrong, but because he values their lives over others.

Plus, do they really care about the lives of the other races?

About "Makoto can't do wrong"...

When Haruka said Makoto was incompetent, Levi didn't deny it and Lime was also aware of it.

Beren's conversation with the dwarf chief made it clear that he knew that Makoto wasn't really intelligent, but just had a lot of knowledge.

Ema is trying hard to change Makoto's image into that of a ruler and gets upset each time he does things wrong.

Their loyalty comes from admiration and being grateful towards him, but nowhere in the story were they viewing him as a perfect being. They do revere him as a god though, since he technically is a god and has given to them what even the goddess couldn't or didn't.

---

And another thing. You keep bringing up how Makoto is a threat to that world, but you do realise that the other heroes are far worse right now right?

Tomoki is currently on a path to destroy the entire world with his charm ability. Lorel Union is proof of how dangerous he has become.

Hibiki wants to eradicate the demons or at least bring them to a point where they became slaves, hoping that the discrimination would slowly fade away, but as our history has proven... slavery only makes it worse. Afterwards she is trying to bring democracy to the world, even if it meant that she would leave it to future generations and because of that, future wars are already set in stone.

Both the heroes have already brought trouble to the world. On the other hand, what have Makoto accomplished?

He has brought prosperity to a few towns and countries.

Diminished some of the prejudice towards demi-humans.

Has already trained up a few students who I can see would bring change to the world in the future.

His existence also puts the other major countries in check. They don't want to be involved with places he is related to. There are still some foolish ones, but they will soon learn that they made a mistake messing with him.

For all they have accomplished, Makoto is the one closer to becoming the world's salvation than any of the other heroes. He does have many flaws, but he learns something through each encounter.

I also get why you would view him as dangerous, but anyone with power are technically a threat. It all depends on how he uses it and now he is far from becoming the other Makoto's in the other realities.

Right now, it's the heroes that are the bigger threat. Even if Makoto has more power and has a bigger threat level, he has done far more good than any of the other heroes.

What is your thoughts about the meeting Makoto had with the head merchant in the school arc? I know that a lot of people were happy with the head merchant being scared (of Makoto's strength) later on when the variants was attacking, but I've seen a few who was happy with the criticism that Makoto received from the head merchant. Then, there's the blind optimism he had with trusting Rione (I think that's her name, the demon that was infiltrating the school) was going to keep her promise to take her subordinates outside the school.

[Morilinde]

I agree that Makoto is somewhat too simplistic in his handling of several incidents. But as you pointed out he learns with every encounter. And to Makoto's credit he is not using his tremendous power to gain advantages (well at the very least not actively. Usually the other side will offer a huge bonus just to get on his good side). You could say he alone has become the third player in the war between demons and hyumans. Neither side can ignore him.

[Alisa~Chan~]

It's like a three way relationship isn't it~? The other two countries has almost about the same power is what I see them to be~ one with the knowledge from the world kept in their royal vault while the other has a hero with a broken charm ability~ but makoto-chan's faction has low population but their quality surpasses them by several steps~

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Enigma29

Spoiler for For short:

Shiki was trying to make Makoto get closer to his students and also try to get rid of some of the prejudice he has towards hyumans. That's what Shiki and Tomoe spoke about.

Both of them also feared that Makoto had little regard towards life and was afraid that he might "enjoy killing" if he went too far.

Yes, but you said that they don't think that Makoto can do any wrong, like its an establish fact, when there wasn't even any indication of that in the story.

Their admiration and loyalty comes from seeing his power and being grateful for what he gave to them. That's why they would stand by him, even if he does something like commit genocide, not because they don't think he can't do wrong, but because he values their lives over others.

Plus, do they really care about the lives of the other races?

About "Makoto can't do wrong"...

When Haruka said Makoto was incompetent, Levi didn't deny it and Lime was also aware of it.

Beren's conversation with the dwarf chief made it clear that he knew that Makoto wasn't really intelligent, but just had a lot of knowledge.

Ema is trying hard to change Makoto's image into that of a ruler and gets upset each time he does things wrong.

Their loyalty comes from admiration and being grateful towards him, but nowhere in the story were they viewing him as a perfect being. They do revere him as a god though, since he technically is a god and has given to them what even the goddess couldn't or didn't.

---

And another thing. You keep bringing up how Makoto is a threat to that world, but you do realise that the other heroes are far worse right now right?

Tomoki is currently on a path to destroy the entire world with his charm ability. Lorel Union is proof of how dangerous he has become.

Hibiki wants to eradicate the demons or at least bring them to a point where they became slaves, hoping that the discrimination would slowly fade away, but as our history has proven... slavery only makes it worse. Afterwards she is trying to bring democracy to the world, even if it meant that she would leave it to future generations and because of that, future wars are already set in stone.

Both the heroes have already brought trouble to the world. On the other hand, what have Makoto accomplished?

He has brought prosperity to a few towns and countries.

Diminished some of the prejudice towards demi-humans.

Has already trained up a few students who I can see would bring change to the world in the future.

His existence also puts the other major countries in check. They don't want to be involved with places he is related to. There are still some foolish ones, but they will soon learn that they made a mistake messing with him.

For all they have accomplished, Makoto is the one closer to becoming the world's salvation than any of the other heroes. He does have many flaws, but he learns something through each encounter.

I also get why you would view him as dangerous, but anyone with power are technically a threat. It all depends on how he uses it and now he is far from becoming the other Makoto's in the other realities.

Right now, it's the heroes that are the bigger threat. Even if Makoto has more power and has a bigger threat level, he has done far more good than any of the other heroes.

First of all there is difference between thinking he is perfect and thinking he is moraly wrong. Majority of mamono don't care about humans that much and if he decide decimate them it will not make big difference.

Second: Makoto is biggest threat. not just because he has power, but he has no empathy to unrelated people. All he need is reason and it doesn't even have to be big one to step on that route. Well he is getting better recently but he is certainly far from safe. Other heroes are much leser threat. Trashmoki is on leash and gonna die soon anyway and Hibiki, well she has right ideas much better than Makoto at least and given time she can make world better placem she started with country she is in and does pretty good job there.

Third: Too long, I did read it but next i see such wall of text from you i will not bother. Keep it brief.

[Saihate]

^ I think you're being slightly bias. Define what you mean by "world"? Are you referring to the humans world? the demi-humans? the demons? Overall?

Hibiki is definitely a huge threat to the world of demons and demi-humans. She will never make their world a better place. So she also has "no empathy to unrelated people" in a sense because she favors humans and is prejudiced towards non-humans.

All the heroes are threats to someone and saviors to some. There may not be a correct answer but I believe that Mikoto is the best since he doesn't take sides because of racial differences.

[Tenzen12]

Not really, Hibiki has plan of integrating demons into humans society. It's long shot, but doable. Regardless of circumference Demon race is aggressor and what's more they will not give up until humanity is wiped out completely. Makoto has no intention get involved and if he were he would likely join to demons against humans instead.

Hibiki is only one with any kind of plan of coexistence, you might not like it, but there isn't any alternative. If you don't consider Makotos "kill Goddess and watch hyumans burn as I have no responsibilty toward them". But even that is more of personal grudge then actual plan.

[Morilinde]

As if the hyumans are innocent: they pushed the demons to a hostile enviroment first. The demons had no choice as to strike back to ensure their survival. And given the bias the bug has towards the hyumans I doubt Hibik's plan will work. Makoto's indifference to the hyumans might be from their total reliance on the bug while the demons worked hard to overcome the obstacles in front of them (kinda like Makoto himself isn't it?) And Makoto already tried a(you could say half-hearted) way to stop the war: he indirectly offered Zef a place for his race (which seems to be the major point of the war) which he declined because of the accumulated hatred. In actuality I think Makoto is the best bet to keep the demons in check since they already know not to mess with him.

[Tenzen12]

It's humans fault for sure things escalated this way, but ... that's completely irrelevant. Pointing fingers never saved anyone. Focusing on facts in other hand is pretty helpful.

And facts are:
- If humans wins, demons get enslaved.
- If Demons wins, hyumanity get wiped out.
- Only living people can make peace.

I don't know of Hibiki's plan would work, but Lorel proved that even country technicality aligned with Bug can be tolerant. And if she fail? Well even her failure would be more productive then letting either race disappear forever.

Makoto certainly would be better for job, but he has no intent "keep demons in check" Nor involve himself in war in any other way. We can hope future Makoto will come with better plan then current Hibiki. When that happen I will gladly support him. But until then she is only chance for future peaceful coexistence.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

It's humans fault for sure things escalated this way, but ... that's completely irrelevant. Pointing fingers never saved anyone. Focusing on facts in other hand is pretty helpful.

And facts are:
- If humans wins, demons get enslaved.
- If Demons wins, hyumanity get wiped out.
- Only living people can make peace.

if the hyumans win the demon race will be wipe out. at this point it is war of mutual genocide.