Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha the Movie 2nd A's Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

She matched up to Signum just fine in the series, despite being distracted by Shamal draining Nanoha. She was only overmatched when Signum popped cartridges, and even then, managed to get a hit on Signum. It really felt like an emo moment that didn't need to be, that I feel detracts from her character. She was much stronger, physically and mentally, in the series.

Um, Fate's fight with Signum was pretty much already over by the time Nanohas linker core was stolen (in the series)-- this is not an emo moment, Fate's always emotional when someone she cares about is hurt. This was the same in series, except by the time Fate realized what happened, the wolkenritter were ready to depart.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Um, Fate's fight with Signum was pretty much already over by the time Nanohas linker core was stolen (in the series)-- this is not an emo moment, Fate's always emotional when someone she cares about is hurt. This was the same in series, except by the time Fate realized what happened, the wolkenritter were already gone.

Like I said, I didn't like how Fate was far more emotional in the movie compared to the series.

She was a lot more calm and composed in the series...

Not to mention Nanoha's determinator status CAME From the first fight of A's when she, with her Linker Core being drained, fired a SLB Plus through the barrier and shattered it.

[Demi.]

She wasn't calm and composed after Nanoha lost her linker core. Whether it be the series, or the movie. Fate also screams Nanohas name and rushes to Nanoha in the series when her core is being drained. Except the fighting is over by then.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Um, Fate's fight with Signum was pretty much already over by the time Nanohas linker core was stolen (in the series)-- this is not an emo moment, Fate's always emotional when someone she cares about is hurt. This was the same in series, except by the time Fate realized what happened, the wolkenritter were ready to depart.

Watch episode 2 again, Demi. Once Shamal's hand goes through Nanoha's chest, we switch to Fate who is clashing with Signum, and she says, "Nano... ha?" And then Shamal tries again and begins draining the core. Fate shouts "Nanoha!" and rushes towards her, only to be blocked by Signum. Fate actually stops short, rather than let Signum get a hit on her. She is not knocked to the ground and totally defeated.

Ergo, the series Fate is stronger, physically and mentally, than the movie Fate. Yes, she was emotionally moved in the series, too... but not to the degree she lost it in the movie.


Okay, now on to my review. Keroko covered quite a bit of what I was going to say, so I'll only briefly go over a few things. And I can only evaluate the movie as someone who is very familiar with the series and source material.

Spoiler for Good:

Obviously, the animation is top notch.

Liked the scene of the red shirts trying to break into a barrier. See, Tsuzuki, it doesn't take much to devote a tiny bit of screen to showcase something that helps flesh out your world. Like Marial getting a better introduction and focus. It was minor, but a nice touch.

Speaking of which, Lindy's talk with Arf near the beginning was nice. THAT is the kind of "fluff" we need. Other characters (not named Nanoha or Fate) interacting.

Nanoha's new shield was spiffy.

Nanoha and Fate stick fighting. Kinda odd, but I knew Linith trained Fate. Also realized Nanoha was raised in a home of ninja assassins with a dojo, so she probably picked up something. Was a bit much, but still kinda cool.

The final fight vs. the Defense Program. This, more than anything else, was something that deserved a better handling, and was the biggest upgrade the movie could have given the series. This time, it actually fires a bunch, and the teamwork involved in bringing it down wasn't just a "stand around and unleash special attacks one-by-one" affair. Honestly, if I could edit this fight into the series, I'd consider A's the epitome of anime perfection.

Okay, the tea party thing at the end was touching. I think that was the first time in the entire movie I finally felt emotionally moved. The A's series continues to move me to near tears and feels more "powerful" but this was a good addition that cements the friendship between the three.

Spoiler for Bad:

Fate and Arf are out walking... and then Fate is inside the barrier flying, while Arf is still a good distance away and hopping? Arf, you can fly too! I know you're slower than Fate, but goddamn, not THAT slow. They really nerfed you, didn't they? And you got Willie'ed even harder than Fate did. Isn't it sad, Arf?

Lindy shafting(WALKING instead of flying? WTF!?), Chrono shafting, Hayate shafting, Arisa/Suzuka shafting, Nanoha shafting... I suppose I should make it easy and say Anyone-Not-Named-Fate-Shafting. Most of the rest I can forgive, even Nanoha(Her only development that needed to happen was her reveal of magic to her family and friends). But they seriously needed more Hayate backstory in this movie. When Hayate is in Reinforce, and she questions, "What I wish for..." I honestly had no idea. They never really made it evident at all, what Hayate wanted. At least in the series, they made it known that she was lonely and just wanted to live kindly with a family. That was her wish in the series. In the movie, they made it sound more like it was Reinforce who told her to do it... it wasn't a wish of her own.

Speaking of her, why isn't she going to school? Why doesn't she have a maid or butler if she has the kind of cash that allows her to live alone? Graham kept her alone in the series, but he wasn't there in the movie. That added to her lonely feelings, but he didn't want anyone else caught up in what was going to happen, or for anyone to miss her. In the movie, she has no excuse for not going out and meeting people (although she did eventually meet Suzuka).

Chrono's lack of development... he had a perfect moment here, and it was setup well with his backstory and him not crying at the funeral. He could have easily had an emotional moment of catharsis confronting the book, and learn to showcase emotion again. If there was anything I'd devote the 10 minutes of lotus eater dream to, it would be Chrono (even over Nanoha development). Perhaps even over Hayate development.

"Break a few bones and sit it out." Yeah, Vita, that's what you totally should have done the first time you ran into Nanoha. Instead, you and the Wolkies hit the idiot bat hard and left two powerful mages in an easily recoverable condition. What, did you think they'd just say, "oh well" and NOT come back after you? Why not drain their entire linker cores leaving them unable to use magic for a long time?

"You trained that much, huh?" - if you call "leaping around with sticks" training. As I mentioned before, the characters were more evenly matched in the series, absent the cartridge spells. So getting cartridges to get back on even footing made sense. Here, it reeks of a DBZ power up.

Way less emotional impact. Simple scenes in the series, like Vita tearily begging Shamal to use her healing magic on Hayate, are gone or toned way down. It really feels like, in his rush to "fix" the series, Tsuzuki has lost his way. Well, that is not totally accurate, for reasons I'll get to in my concluding remarks.

What happened to tracking them? In that second encounter, Amy said she was very clearly tracking them, and next we know, Chrono and his mages are just floating in the sky (with Yuuno, although he wasn't with them before; why?). What happened? In the series, at least, Amy admitted that she lost them or was unable to track them.

They recycled much more of the voice acting from the series. If you were to close your eyes and I were to play both, you probably wouldn't be able to tell which was which. Given the movies are a cash grab, this makes sense.

"It's not that I don't understand you're not at fault." - If you understand this, why are you fighting them? And then you blast them with a strong spell... that does nothing? The author's hand was never so evident in the series. It actually progressed naturally. The reasons for fighting just felt right. Here, it seems they are fighting just because that is the way it is supposed to go.

I think I know why Fate's Big damn Hero moment here didn't feel as good as the series. In the series, you didn't know she was coming (but it made sense in hindsight once it was explained they were on the way). She showed up and looked awesome, with a cool. "We're friends" line, with a cool look on her face. She had attitude and style. In the movie, you knew she was going to pop up to save Nanoha, because she had just dissolved her dream sequence. There was no cool stance or line. In fact, Fate going sonic form earlier to drag Nanoha out of the line of fire, felt as much, if not more so, like the fulfillment of the "I'll save you" promise.

It has to be said, but I really felt Nanoha got really shafted here. Her awesome moment of firing SLB in the first fight while being drained, is gone. As is your beating of Reinforce. Isn't it sad, Nanoha? You're slowly losing parts of yourself, as the opportunity cost to what some of your fans want? What will you lose in your next incarnation?

"Whoever is fighting out there!" Um, okay? In the series, Reinforce told Hayate that a mage was out there fighting, so that's how Hayate knew to talk to that person. She doesn't here, because Reinforce never told her. If there was an information dump, Hayate should know it was Nanoha (and Fate). I suppose this is more odd than anything. But it's as if Tsuzuki is going senile, remembering some things that needed to happen, while forgetting other important details. Or perhaps shrugging and going, "Eh... the fans will eat up the fluff I've included, so I don't need to pay much attention to the other stuff. They certainly don't."

Why did the knights never tell Hayate about Reinforce? They had flashbacks where they clearly remembered her. In the series, they had an excuse because their memories were faulty. It would have been yet another way the movie could have improved on the series, if Hayate was aware of Reinforce earlier on, and thus more emotionally connected to her.

Spoiler for Personal Nitpicks:

"It's pretty shiek, isn't it?" - Kinda didn't like it from the first movie, but RH is waaaay too chatty for my tastes. Especially when taking away lines from Amy or Mariel.

Fanservicy transformation scenes. Seriously? Do we need an up close view of Fate's crotch and ass while her panties disappear? The main reason I have trouble trying to show this series to people is because I don't want to feel like a damn pedo!

Didn't care for the new transformation music, either. What was wrong with the RH Setup and Blitz of Gold pieces? These new music pieces are just kinda "bleh." The music in general didn't seem as good to me this time around, either. And I actually thought the music in the first movie was a huge improvement over S1. Snow Rain in particular, was HORRID here. And I *always* tear up during the song in the series. I was at least hoping it would do something for me. It was probably my most favorite piece of music in the entire series.

"I'll go talk to you if you insist." - That came out of nowhere. Why? Vita didn't want to listen in the series.

Chrono suddenly has Durandel whut? I understand Lindy is gonna be on the ship, but why did she give it to him? In the series, he got it because it was deliberately designed to do powerful freezing magic to be used on the book. Unless I missed something, it was simply a device Lindy had.

They took out the mismatched arm and legging outfit from Reinforce. It may seem like a small thing, but when Rein Zwei inherits it, it marks her as the "child" of Reinforce and Hayate, since Rein also has Hayate's hair cross mark thingie.

Final remarks:

Once again, like the first movie, this was a movie made for Fate fans. Thus, any rating is subjective, based on what the watcher wants to get out of it. If you wanted focus on Fate and her moments with Nanoha, then Magical Girl Lyrical Fate-chan was for you. If you wanted decently animated fights between magical girls, this movie was probably for you. If you wanted a more balanced team-based affair, with development and screen time for more than a couple of characters, with several of them actually participating in combat, then this movie definitely was NOT for you. And I have to admit, I am in the latter category. I suppose I might have been able to accept this movie more, if Nanoha herself hadn't lost her two biggest moments in A's: her SLB in the beginning, and her win against Reinforce later. Or perhaps some better Hayate backstory, or some Chrono development in resolving his feelings toward the book.

Give me *something* besides fluff! If I wanted fluff between girls, there are tons of magical girl series out there already, like Sailor Moon or Pretty Cure. I want awesome from my Nanoha series.

When all is said in done, on an initial viewing, I'd probably give it a 6 or 7 out of 10. I'll have to think a bit before I finally rate it.

I will say, overall it was kinda decent, and if I were a first time watcher just coming off the first Nanoha movie, or didn't know much or expect much, I'd probably be satisfied.

And it looks like I'll have to go in an edit subtitles to correct names and grammar/spelling. If anyone is interested in a spiffied up subtitle file for the movie, let me know, and I'll send it to you once I complete it. Or if you have particular suggestions for rewording, you can let me know that, too, and I'll incorporate it.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Watch episode 2 again, Demi. Once Shamal's hand goes through Nanoha's chest, we switch to Fate who is clashing with Signum, and she says, "Nano... ha?" And then Shamal tries again and begins draining the core. Fate shouts "Nanoha!" and rushes towards her, only to be blocked by Signum. Fate actually stops short, rather than let Signum get a hit on her. She is not knocked to the ground and totally defeated.

Ergo, the series Fate is stronger, physically and mentally, than the movie Fate. Yes, she was emotionally moved in the series, too... but not to the degree she lost it in the movie.

Sorry, but no. Fate stopped because Signum blocked her path. There was no fighting which took place at that point. Fate was calm and collected because Nanoha was not in a dire situation at the time she was fighting. All the action happened before that point.

Also how could you completely dismiss all of the extra scenes Reinforce had?

[Archon_Wing]

Watched it and was pretty satisfied. It's not going to ever replace A's, though it's certainly a possible compliment to it. There was a lot of good, some bad, and some things I can't explain. Then again this is Nanoha...

So let's break it down:

Chrono, Amy, and Amy's Boobs

Chrono: Look at her face... look at her face

Maybe it's to make up for the lack of Lieze twins? Or is it the chest tumor disease that just happens to anime female characters? Sadly, that's the only thing I noticed about Amy with Chrono. They just don't end up doing much. Boobs or not sadly, Chono suffered heavily due to the Grahmn subplot being cut, and for some reason the movie could have easily linked his father's death to his own motivations. They spent like 30 seconds on it, which is 29 more than expected. But still. This really makes the world building a lot less working. And poor Chrono just sits on the bench even though they really could have used his abilities. What the fuck was he doing during the Reinforce fight?

Though to be fair she seems to have gotten thicker down there as well. Anyhow...

Trying to keep up with Saki

They're only friends. I promise!

Okay, honestly when I saw that, I laughed. The Nanofate moment at the start was just completely gratuitous. I mean the other ones were at least subtle with the holding hands, but this really was just going a bit too much in a movie that desperately needs time. Remember, A's doesn't fuck around. It doesn't have much filler, and this is a 2 1/2 hour long movie. It is just pure fanservice, even coming from a fan. And let's not even talk about that random kendo training scene. Nanoha pulls off some moves that would scare Mai Kawasumi away.

5 centimeters per befriending

Get that lens flare out of my Nanoha!

On the other hand, this movie does look really nice. I've never been too impressed with Nanoha backgrounds, but they really do provide atmosphere this time. This particular scene with Nanoha and Fate makes much more sense, going over their friendship in a more subtle fashion. And those outfits look great.

Yuno

You know what? Fuck you guys. Just running off like that. Next time someone tries to drain your linker core, I'm just going to sit here and laugh while you guys fail. DPS DPS DPS. "Yuno does 5 dps, let's kick him from the party!" All you guys care is about damage. Let's see what happens when your healer and shield protector goes on coffee break!

Well, at least Yuno does his researcher thing well enough. But still, just read above. Though it is hilarious to see what him not being there caused. Maybe he is important.

The first fight was terrible

You changed my intro fight to this? Alright, Nanoha, I'm hitting you for real!

Yea, Vita can't be happy with her entrance. The atmosphere is completely wrecked, with everyone saying the same lines from the tv series, but the action is sped up. It just makes no sense, and Vita was supposed to appear like a juggernaut. Here, she is mostly like VITA SMASH! Kinda okay later on, but not impressive at all. Meanwhile Fate comes in, sees Signum, and gets owned like that. Signum probaly laughed inside, though she knows one should never throw rocks at glass houses

Raising Heart and Bardiche are broken? Use duct tape


Overall, I think the autoupdate urging of their devices to be more compelling then whats-her-face conveniently having the right parts lying around. It really sours the impact of their upgrades.

The loyal knights

No, your package still hasn't arrived yet

I really do like how they're reimagining Hayate when the book was activated, plus a certain comedic moment. It's likable how the knights are dead serious, but Hayate turns their personalities around through her influence. I'd expect parts to be shafted when it covered their life and home but it was actually quite long and eventful. They really did build up a sense of family just as strongly as they did in the series. And this really helps establish Hayate as the core of A's.

Lindy

I challenge you to a Children's Card Game!

If only she did, it would be more interesting. Sadly, Lindy is the most shafted character in the movie here, and her purpose is dubious at best except to provide Fate with some sense of family. Oh, and Chrono, but you know.

Those two

Please, don't kick us out! Have these gifts!

Poor Arisa and Suzuka. There's just nothing for you guys to do. It almost feels like they're desperately trying to cling on whatever shred of screentime they have.

Signum, the badass

I'll crush you! Then I'll make my master happy. Then I'm going to go after people that bash me on the internet!

The Signum vs Fate here was actually well moved. Their original feud wasn't bad, with them respecting each other, but putting it near the final confrontation ups the stakes. Signum, being the stoic, even more stoic than Fate was, showing emotion is a sight to behold, and shit was thrown down. Signum's actions and mood are more subtle and they could have done more with her, but I actually think she fares better in the movie.

The Green Devil

So, you thought I was useless, huh?

Shamal is fucking awesome in this movie. She did more in this movie than both A's and StrikerS. Her original role of generic support is now full on action and definitely means business. While she does still have more parental traits of the four, now she's also a very credible antagonist.

ACS

There's nothing I can't break. Well, except maybe Tsuzuki's ego

It's now that I must commend on this movie's soundtrack. It is much better than the series and 1st movie which contained a lot of not so subtle SRW-like knockoff music. We have some nice guitar well, and this particular track that plays is suitable as all hell. The soundtrack is atmospheric and subtle. You won't notice it while watching it, but it's surely there.

Anyhow, while most people define Nanoha by her white devil scene, I've always prized this one in particular, which summarizes her character as an unyielding warrior of determination. She does seem a bit too wise, especially with her quote about death-- it sounds like something she'd say around StrikerS, but oh well, it's cool and shit. The soundtrack that accompanies it is the standout track to me.

Moving on

Goodbye...

This is probably one of the most controversial scenes as it's questionably long, and centers heavily on a Fate tangent. There are two major leadins to this scene and I actually do feel it's better here. One is that Fate outright states that she never really got over her mother, as shown by her ambivalent attitude when asked. After all, she was willing to plunge to her doom. The other is that the past can't be changed. And thus, she looked to the future.

What makes this particular scene better, is that the original scene just had the basic premise of Fate being presented with a false reality, and her choosing to accept the present instead of the past. Here, though, I think her reluctance to really move on, and then eventually choosing too to be more effective.

Hayate transforms

But... I'm already half transformed here!

Well, at least I can put all those jokes about the writers hating her. She finally does get a real transformation.

The hawtness that is Reinforce

Happiest tome in the world indeed

Holy shit, Reinforce looks spectacular in this movie. Most likely the sexiest one too, though this owes to most of the leads being like nine years old. Looks aside, I was wondering what the movie could spend its last hour on. Well, it definitely paid off. Reinforce was effectively humanized. While we always understood that Reinforce was only supposed to do what she was created for, and some of it was against her own will, it wasn't til through showing that we really see how Reinforce feels about Hayate, and that kind of loyalty is priceless. Hayate would of course return the same, and thus it's not easy to not feel for her. In the end, this also helps establish Hayate as a centerpiece that is also aware of this and acts accordingly rather than just being a passive victim.

Conclusion

We'll be going. Don't shaft us in your next script!

The movie lacks some of the worldbuilding and emotional impact A's had. Hayate breaking with the Wolkies disappearing is watered down due to the different cause, and stuff like Fate with Yuno breaking in and saving Nanoha, or the surprise of the new upgrades. The later does hurt the action a little, since the upgrades are almost by default instead of popping in and leveling the field like they did on A's. This also makes the movie have a much weaker start than A's had. On the other hand, I really did like how they focused on Hayate and Reinforce, and devoted a lot of screentime to make their relationships credible, and thus worthy of empathy. And quite a few awesome moments. though strangely enough, I think "happiest tome in the world" had more impact here.

In the end, 2nd A's is a bit strange. While Movie 1st sacrificed character development to be brisk and have fast paced action, 2nd A's sacrificed action to become a character driven piece. It certainly does make it unique in regards to Nanoha, and I do think it contributes to the overall narrative. It certainly isn't vital to watch this, but I felt it was definitely well made enough.

I'll rate this an 8.5/10.

[Von Himmel]

Nanoha pulls off some moves that would scare Mai Kawasumi away.

If I didn't see what she pulled off in Innocent, I would start screaming at how bullshit that is

After watching this, I agree that it lacks the emotional impact from the series and watching at how the pace went made me think that there's some part that I probably won't understand without watching the series first... but the action scenes made up for that. I really like how they pulled those battle scenes in this movie; I feel that's how it's supposed to be for aerial magic combat.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Sorry, but no. Fate stopped because Signum blocked her path. There was no fighting which took place at that point. Fate was calm and collected because Nanoha was not in a dire situation at the time she was fighting. All the action happened before that point.

Not in a dire situation? She was being drained, just like in the movie! Hell, it was probably a more dire situation because she had a freakin' arm coming out of her chest!

And yes, Fate stopped short in the series, rather than get hit. In the movie, she didn't; she continued to charge and thus was hit. In the series, she was able to keep calm, despite what Nanoha was going through. There would have been fighting if Fate had continued on. Instead she stopped.

Are you trying to say that the movie was more dire than the series? That somehow, the lack of an arm coming out of her chest made it worse? If so, you and I would have very different definitions of "worse."

But, let's recap, and see if we can at least agree on the sequence of events here:

Nanoha starts charging her SLB
She's stopped by Shamal's hand coming out of her chest (missed the core)
Switch to show Fate clashed with Signum, as the former says, "Nano...ha?"
Shamal says, "Oops" and recalculates to grab the core to start draining.
Fate screams "Nanoha!" and rushes towards her
Fate stops as Signum appears in her path.
(Fate does *not* at anytime resume rushing toward Nanoha)
Nanoha fires her SLB on her own.

Do you agree with this? Because anyone who watches episode 2 can confirm this order of events.

Originally Posted by Demi.

Also how could you completely dismiss all of the extra scenes Reinforce had?

Not so much dismiss, as they didn't do too much for me. I mean, we had the one dream sequence at the start which was in the sound stages, but that ultimately didn't have much to do with anything since Hayate didn't remember it (at least, until near the end). Instead, it actually took away from Hayate, since it made it seem that Hayate was kind to the knights solely because Reinforce told her to.

But what I think you took out of my review, and that I can clarify, is the lack of Hayate/Reinforce interacting throughout much of the movie. As in the series, they only really interacted in the end. I will admit, the movie did do things a bit better, since there was more Reinforce, but that also introduced a plot hole: Why did the knights not tell Hayate about her? They had no reason not to.

[Demi.]

Nanoha starts charging her SLB
She's stopped by Shamal's hand coming out of her chest (missed the core)
Switch to show Fate clashed with Signum, as the former says, "Nano...ha?"
Shamal says, "Oops" and recalculates to grab the core to start draining.
Fate screams "Nanoha!" and rushes towards her
Fate stops as Signum appears in her path.
(Fate does *not* at anytime resume rushing toward Nanoha)
Nanoha fires her SLB on her own.

Sounds right, and proves my point. As soon as Fate realizes what happened to Nanoha the fight stopped. She even looked towards Nanoha with a worried expression while having her final clash with Signum. All of the damage she did to Signum happened pre-linker core stolen.
Fate barely fought at all before Nanohas linker core was stolen in the movie, so she came into the battle concerned for Nanoha, and not the battle with Signum.

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Signum, the badass

I'll crush you! Then I'll make my master happy. Then I'm going to go after people that bash me on the internet!

The Signum vs Fate here was actually well moved. Their original feud wasn't bad, with them respecting each other, but putting it near the final confrontation ups the stakes. Signum, being the stoic, even more stoic than Fate was, showing emotion is a sight to behold, and shit was thrown down. Signum's actions and mood are more subtle and they could have done more with her, but I actually think she fares better in the movie.

Rejoice Aki, your favorite character is badass.

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Instead, it actually took away from Hayate, since it made it seem that Hayate was kind to the knights solely because Reinforce told her to.

She really didn't remember what Reinforce said.

[Algent]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Nanoha starts charging her SLB
She's stopped by Shamal's hand coming out of her chest (missed the core)
Switch to show Fate clashed with Signum, as the former says, "Nano...ha?"
Shamal says, "Oops" and recalculates to grab the core to start draining.
Fate screams "Nanoha!" and rushes towards her
Fate stops as Signum appears in her path.
(Fate does *not* at anytime resume rushing toward Nanoha)
Nanoha fires her SLB on her own.

That scene is one of the best of the anime, it was here to say "Nanoha is a Monster" to everyone and I was really waiting for it so I really am disappointed .

It seem I'm not the only one who noticed re-used lines, it didn't even seem they re-recorded them.

[Justin_Brett]

That didn't make him shut up in Force, you really think it will here?

[Demi.]

I assume you're referring to Sankster, but to which post?

[Sansker]

No is Aki, he is the ultimate Signum's fan boy.

I just hate poor stories.

[Demi.]

Oh right, Aki. How could I forget.

You need to watch the movie Sankster, we need your take on it.

[Rising Dragon]

Ugh, spare us. >.>

Can't watch the movie yet; no room on the comp.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Sounds right, and proves my point. As soon as Fate realizes what happened to Nanoha the fight stopped. She even looked towards Nanoha with a worried expression while having her final clash with Signum. All of the damage she did to Signum happened pre-linker core stolen.
Fate barely fought at all before Nanohas linker core was stolen in the movie, so she came into the battle concerned for Nanoha, and not the battle with Signum.

The original point I was making, was that Fate was more evenly matched with Signum in the series. Here, she gets owned, easily. Your point is that she was in constant worry mode, which I can kinda see... but that still doesn't excuse it totally. Fate still lost it in the movie, while she held it more together in the series.

The basic point that series Fate was stronger, physically and mentally, still holds out. THAT is the point I am making. In the movie, she gets distracted and owned. True, she is more of a match pre-Nanoha draining, but that same calm is present even during the series Nanoha drain.

Ergo, Series Fate is stronger than Movie Fate. She is able to keep it together enough to not get owned while Nanoha is being drained. You have to acknowledge at least that much. In both the movie and the series, Fate charges at Nanoha while she is being drained. In the series, she stops. In the movie, she keeps going and gets swatted down.

Honestly, Demi, when it comes to Fate, can you really not see any criticism at all? I know how you feel. I used to be an Akane fanatic in the Ranma 1/2 fandom. I remember not being able to take any criticism of her character, no matter how minor. I look back now, and regret what I did and how blind I had been, and I'd hate to see the same thing happen to you.

Originally Posted by bhl88

She really didn't remember what Reinforce said.

I know that, but if you continue on, you see the knights ask if the Book has ever spoken to Hayate, even in her dreams, and she replies that she isn't sure, but that she has to take care of them. The implication is while she lacks direct memories of the encounter, the overall imperative is surfacing: to be kind to the knights and make them happy. It casts some doubt as to whether Hayate was acting that way towards them because of who she is (and since we never get any real Hayate backstory, we don't know really how she is), or because she is subtly being influenced by Reinforce's request.

I was pointing it out as something that didn't really need to be there, that at least has a hint of detraction. And also of something that could have been put to better use, giving us some flashback of Hayate that would explained why she would have taken to them as she did.

It's not a major thing, I suppose. Just something that bugged me.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

That didn't make him shut up in Force, you really think it will here?

i'll save my humble opinion about Signum's performance in this movie once i get a chance to watch it.

As far as i've read it seems she had a strong start but then she was put out of focus, let's see how much he can get from the small spotlight she received xDU

[Archon_Wing]

There is a speculation thread for the movie that should be used if you haven't seen it yet. Using the main thread when subs first come up is not a good idea.

[Sansker]

Do we have another thread?

Because I will watch the movie and give you my take on it.