Valvrave the Liberator 2 - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[~BC~]

Frankly, I feel they've spent too much time focusing on Shoko for her not to have a role in this new country. Right now her hands are mostly tied until an actual dialogue between the people can happen. That's not going to happen while everyone is stuck up on these ships. No, I'm not convinced L-Elf is interested in being that person. Remember he "made' a country for Lieselotte without putting himself in the leadership role. I don't think he cares for it outside of combat.

As to explanations, I call BS that Shoko is solely responsible for that just because Pino has access to some videos. There is still alot in the way of context that she'd need someone to explain to her. So the others aren't getting off the hook on that as far as I'm concerned.

As to the bodyjack speculation, I can only see that happening if Haruto gets a near complete memory wipe. Some are so caught up in their Shoko hate they forget that has the potential to effect more than just the Haruto/Shoko relationship.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I stood up for Shoko and I tried to understand how she feels. I understand her back in episode 21 and I could give her the benefit of the doubt. However, I think now she's being prideful and stubborn.

Prideful? I think it's the very opposite of prideful. A prideful person doesn't spend hours crying and saying "I'm sorry".

She's been mentally crushed. Totally crushed.

She's basically given up, with the exception of keeping her one ship calm.

There will likely be no rousing redemption for Shouko, but nor will we see a heel turn from her. Instead, she's just a pure tragic character. This is it. I don't think she's coming back from this. She probably will have little relevance in the rest of the story aside from continuing to be a tragic character.

Yes, this is the L-Elf/Haruto/Saki show now.

I give Haruto about even odds of surviving the next episode. If he survives, he'll likely be depleted of so many memories that his bond with Shouko will be severed. That will be the final note on Shouko's tragic descent - Either Haruto dying in battle, or him losing all/almost all memories of Shouko.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

I just watched the new episode so what I am noting:

-How did L-Elf get into that waffe pilot suit? Apparently breathing in space is possible for him!

-Full Impact Unit 1 taking out four kirschbaums when nobody else can.... Eh, I can kind of see why with rune overload, but still, hard to suspend disbelief from that. I mean if he was in harakiri mode it'd be easier to buy.
-Oh hey Prue is free from his containment! It seems like he and Pino were artificial Magius, so we can safely say who is first and second generation finally
-Speaking of which Unit 2 is only covered over for what 30 seconds?

I'm was thinking about that too, but it's the same with Haruto in that he was able to change back into his pilot suit too. I'm guessing the cockpits of both machines can depressurize and resupply oxygen just like a space shuttle can, so once in the cockpit both could change outfits.

It was a little weird that suddenly Kirschbaums are nothing, when even Haruto was having a hard time two episodes ago, however, I think that you can just blame the plot there.

We've already noted that Prue and Pino were different than the other Magius but they aren't kamistuki. I'm assuming the difference with them is their status and the way they came to Earth. The obviously had a different type of containment. And wasn't Prue just creating a sort of hologram image of himself, projected from his little cocoon?

Also, I really hope VVV2 get more than just a single episode....

[zerriet]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Prideful? I think it's the very opposite of prideful. A prideful person doesn't spend hours crying and saying "I'm sorry".

She's been mentally crushed. Totally crushed.

She's basically given up, with the exception of keeping her one ship calm.

There will likely be no rousing redemption for Shouko, but nor will we see a heel turn from her. Instead, she's just a pure tragic character. This is it. I don't think she's coming back from this. She probably will have little relevance in the rest of the story aside from continuing to be a tragic character.

Yes, this is the L-Elf/Haruto/Saki show now.

I give Haruto about even odds of surviving the next episode. If he survives, he'll likely be depleted of so many memories that his bond with Shouko will be severed. That will be the final note on Shouko's tragic descent - Either Haruto dying in battle, or him losing all/almost all memories of Shouko.

That would be way too tragic and depressing, I say that she might be properly redeemed next episode.......hopefully

[mayumi]

There were a lot of people who complained when Haruto was emo or L-ELf or Saki but Shoko being damned is out of question. Why can't people just criticize Shoko for being stubborn and stupid?

If every other character has been given flak, Shoko certainly deserves her share of it this time. IF she wants to play the martyr because she was wrong and does not want to correct it then, I can't help but hate her. Right now she is trying to buying pity points.

[zerriet]

Originally Posted by mayumi

There were a lot of people who complained when Haruto was emo or L-ELf or Saki but Shoko being damned is out of question. Why can't people just criticize Shoko for being stubborn and stupid?

If every other character has been given flak, Shoko certainly deserves her share of it this time.

It is not so much of she is perfect and does not deserve criticism, but rather what she did was with the intention to help people, but ends up getting more flak than what she deserved in comparison to a standard bitch

[Triple_R]

@Mayumi Do you seriously think that Shouko has been under-criticized the past few weeks? If so, may I kindly ask you what Valvrave threads you've been reading?

I don't recall Haruto or L-Elf or Saki ever getting the amount of hate that Shouko has received the last few weeks.

[MK-95-]

Shoko wasn't being stubborn. She had made her resolve when she sold out Haruto. I think her purposely acting cold is her way of saying, "I've already started down this path, so I can't go back now." It wasn't her intention for Haruto to find out she was sorry. Pino just happens to have loose lips. So she's putting up a facade (Haruto know though) for its better that way, she really does go out of her way for Haruto's well being. [Concealing her father's death is another example]

That's somewhat redemption & punishment for her right there. Her love will remain unrequited (even though, the feelings were mutual, were being used here because Haruto may forget the reason why he loves here).

[~BC~]

Originally Posted by mayumi

There were a lot of people who complained when Haruto was emo or L-ELf or Saki but Shoko being damned is out of question. Why can't people just criticize Shoko for being stubborn and stupid?

If every other character has been given flak, Shoko certainly deserves her share of it this time. IF she wants to play the martyr because she was wrong and does not want to correct it then, I can't help but hate her. Right now she is trying to buying pity points.

Yeah no, this just doesn't work for me. Every main character has had their share of flak throughout the whole show. If there is one who's maybe gotten off a little better than the others it's L-Elf (I'd love to know where he got a lot of flak for his grieving). Shoko criticism isn't out of the question; in fact it's always in season depending on where you go in the fandom.

[mikethepokemaster]

Originally Posted by Thess

That's why I said the Magius were necessary in our previous discussions and why the kamitsuki wouldn't be accepted without their existence. Enemies can be united together against a common foe: that was the talk unsubtle one in this episode of why Dorssia and ARUS (declared enemies to most) joined forces as best friends forever in a heartbeat. The only way for the humans to give kamitsuki a chance would be if they act together and get to know them against a common enemy: the Council of 101.

That's actually even the basis of L-Elf and Haruto relationship. They mistrusted each others for a long time but eventually came to terms with each others, but only after they, who were strangers and enemies, worked together towards a common goal.

It's not going to be easy. L-Elf admitted it's going to take a long time, but it's possible.



Q-vier is fairly popular in Japan, actually. If you want to go for actually hated characters who they wish death upon it's Shoko since episode 21. He doesn't really have a hatefanbase the way Haruto and Shoko acquired. Look at the last results for popular scenes in last episodes: "Q-vier chat with X-eins" is second while the most popular is "Thunder hating/getting angry at Shoko".

Don't forget he also voice by yuki kaji aka Erin Yeager( if I spelt this wrong please tell me).

[mikethepokemaster]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Meh, yet another thing they're putting in between ShokoXHaruto, after the gajilion things they have done during the series, it seems they are trying a wee bit too hard. But now that they are FINALLY getting to truly understand each other? Seems rather fishy to me that they're setting up SOMETHING, and it's certainly not impossible, though I can imagine the uproar will be probably be loud if it does happen.

Like I'm not worried about Shoko since her plot armor is thicker than the rest of the cast combined, but Haruto seems headed to be yet another Mari Mk II martyr. We'll see what they'll pull off, since the next episode seems to be the series finale.

I feel like their relationship is just used for angst and i hate when there to much and it used for a plot device angst in a show

[username31]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

Frankly, I feel they've spent too much time focusing on Shoko for her not to have a role in this new country. Right now her hands are mostly tied until an actual dialogue between the people can happen. That's not going to happen while everyone is stuck up on these ships. No, I'm not convinced L-Elf is interested in being that person. Remember he "made' a country for Lieselotte without putting himself in the leadership role. I don't think he cares for it outside of combat.

As to explainations, I call BS that Shoko is solely responsible for that just because Pino has access to some videos. There is still alot in the way of context that she'd need someone to explain to her. So the others aren't getting off the hook on that as far as I'm concerned.

As to the bodyjack speculation, I can only see that happening if Haruto gets a near complete memory wipe. Some are so caught up in their Shoko hate they forget that has the potential to effect more than just the Haruto/Shoko relationship.

not really that was only on S1...the creator can change their idea for S2 and Satomi is now as much as relevant as Shoko in S2...
and no L-elf never says He won't putting himself in Leadership roles and he only care about combat seriously... are you think L-elf is useless except for his combat skill...are we watching the same show?
what thing they will effect except to please the shipper?...nothing... Haruto don't have power outside valvrave that why L-elf did all the inside attack, Haruto roles can easily be replace by getting someone in unit 1...

[~BC~]

The creators can change their mind. I'm saying I haven't seen anything that says that's the case right now. I don't think L-Elf or Haruto's roles have changed. Only their goals.

You're free to think what you want of course.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Excellent episode. I especially liked the final scene with L-Elf so superbly turning the tables on the Magius, and the Dorssian Fuhrer.

It was definitely a great episode for L-Elf and all the Valvrave pilots. Haruto, Saki, Thunder, and Akira had some great moments and some excellent lines. Thunder certainly went out like a champ, doing a good job in following in Kyuma's footsteps.


As for Shouko... My take is that, perhaps ironically, she's judging herself as harshly as some of the Shouko-haters are. I think she feels like she's screwed up massively. She knows she's let Haruto down, even when he sacrificed so much for her. She knows that she let down her best friend, who's also the guy she has a crush on. She feels like she's destroyed any chance she has with Haruto at a romantic level, so there's also an element of "a broken heart" here.

At this juncture, Shouko is a girl who's lost it all. She lost her father, her friend Marie, her country, and her friend and potential lover Haruto. She failed as a Prime Minister, and likely feels beyond redemption. She probably feels like all she has left to offer is keeping things calm amongst the survivors on her ship. Trying to tell them the truth, and hoping to persuade them that way, is an act of faith, including in her own abilities to influence others. And Shouko has no faith left in herself.

I think that Shouko is supposed to be a tragic figure. An Aesop about how pure idealism and laughs and friendliness can only get you so far. She lacks the mental toughness of L-Elf and the Valvrave pilots, and ultimately, that's what makes the difference. They can "put on a brave face" while Shouko can only maintain her smile and hope if she's genuinely happy and optimistic.

well personally, i think Shoko is better compare to 2 previous ep, rather and delusion, Shoko is making an impression on me as escapism mentality, when she meet Haruto, she don't know how to apologized and try to use the PM and the ship as an excuse to avoid talking to him so i'd say that she is receiving her retribution.
Then again, i still don't agree about her reaction with Akira, objectively speaking, regardless of how heavy or bad Haruto lies amount to, it's still unrelated to her responsibility. Tragic heroine is quite correct, but not figure, since Saki and L-elf who killing since young age is far more tragic than her, pure idealism and friendliness is indeed Shoko trait, however, she had yet to exhibit them in the recent episodes rather than it can only get her so far, basically, to me, it seem more like that the moment the Kamitsuki exposed, she already in a state of panic and looking for either a mental support or somewhere to vent her feelings, Haruto, who's supposed to be the mental support, ironically become the target to let her vent her feelings.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by zerriet

That would be way too tragic and depressing, I say that she might be properly redeemed next episode.......hopefully

I just don't see what she can do at this juncture that would be...

1) Critically useful to the other protagonists.

2) Believable.

...Maybe save Haruto by letting him feed on her? That's all I can think of off the top of my head, and I don't think it's very likely. But we'll have to wait and see. Valvrave can certainly surprise, so there's few certainties with this show.

Originally Posted by dragon1412

well personally, i think Shoko is better compare to 2 previous ep, rather and delusion, Shoko is making an impression on me as escapism mentality, when she meet Haruto, she don't know how to apologized and try to use the PM and the ship as an excuse to avoid talking to him so i'd say that she is receiving her retribution.

Yeah, I think you're right here. The look in Shouko's eyes and face when she stares up at Haruto in the Valvrave cockpit really says everything, I think.

She can't truly face him given the situation, so she's going through the motions as Prime Minister, basically.

As for Akira... I do think it's fair to say that Shouko has kinda lost sight of Akira as a person. That's a fair criticism to make.

Shouko helped Akira out of her shell, but Satomi is ultimately the person Akira can actually rely on. Even for Rune-feeding, apparently.

[Avrorrange]

Does anyone know how many episodes has this season got left? Is it a two cour or is it only one cour. Hard to imagine they can conclude everything with one cour and they'd need a third season--which there seems to be no announcement at all.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

I just watched the new episode so what I am noting:

-How did L-Elf get into that waffe pilot suit? Apparently breathing in space is possible for him!
-.

The one Saki defeat + L-11 stole his suit
(dead men tell no tales)

[DuelGundam2099]

Not what I meant, I mean he had to take his own suit off (he is on the moon after all).

[Nitestorm]

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

Not what I meant, I mean he had to take his own suit off (he is on the moon after all).

He probably changed inside the cockpit of unit 4. We'll have to assume that the Valvrave cockpits and pressurize and restore oxygen levels once the hatch is closed or something.

[Der Langrisser]

He probably put the damn suit inside Carmilla's cockpit, as it's pressurised.