Madoka Magica - Spoilers & Speculation

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Kawakanai

If witches leave behind Grief Seeds after death why wouldn't Soul Gems persist after MG death?

hold up didn't we see Homura walking away with Mami's Soul Gem at the end of episode 3?

Edit: Nope I was wrong but it sure looked like it... 22:00 minutes in

[Kawakanai]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

hold up didn't we see Homura walking away with Mami's Soul Gem at the end of episode 3?

Edit: Nope I was wrong but it sure looked like it... 22:00 minutes in

Yeah, I actually went in and did some screen shots.

Mami's symbol seems to be a five pointed star.

Spoiler for Mami's Soul gem from eppy 2::

Episode 2, 3:48 time mark.

Where as Charolotte's is a pineapple or candy in a wraper.

Spoiler for And the item after Mami dies::

Episode 3, 21:39 time mark.

Another look:

Episode 3, 22:00 time mark.

The design on top of the second is not Mami's but I assume Charlotte's. So where'd Mami's gem go? Is it the broken tea cup?

[Kazu-kun]

Quote from the cover of the Madoka Magika manga:

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

I'm calling it. Madoka can't win by contracting with Kyubey because darkness can not defeat darkness. If she makes that contract, we're royally fucked (we, as in the whole world!!). I'm freaking calling it!!!

[Funkatron]

Speculation on the formation of witches and familiars (probably done already but I wanna give it a shot)

What we know is that familiars are more or less spawned from witches and eventually become witches themselves if they feed on enough people. We also know that witches are born of curses like magical girls are of wishes. So, here are a number of theories

1. Witches are sorta like vampires. They feed off humans and in the process, some of the humans in death are resurrected into familiars, who later become witches or

2. After feeding for a while witches bud/split familiars from their own body. The familiars aren't as powerful as witches due to not having a grief seed but eventually gain one after feeding for a certain amount of time.

3. Connected with point 2, familiars aren't the only source of witches. A witch can also be formed from a cursed human, either a magical girl who has not cleansed their soul gem enough or a human who has died under grief-filled circumstances ie tragic, painful death. Basically how some lore see ghosts: spirits who have unfinished business stemming from how they died.

4. Witches feed off grief and negative emotions, hence why they cause humans to commit suicide and flatout eat them. I don't think it was ever stated why witches do what they do but I think that is the reason. Hence why their core is called the grief seed: literally a seed of grief.
I'm just riffing here, since we have so little to go on atm.

[SagaraSouske]

QB will tell the truth if it suits his agenda and will use half truth to deceive whenever necessary. The only thing that we have not yet caught him saying is a blatant lie. Spinning your words even if it is based on truth is essentially deceit.

Some examples:

When QB first approached Madoka and Sayaka about turning into MGs, the reason he gave was about saving those being influenced by witches. His action through the several encounters clearly shows that he does not care about witches nor the humans under their effect. All he cares about is getting Sayaka and Madoka turned into MG.

After QB said to Madoka and Sayaka that he will leave them because they do not really want to be become MG after witnessing Mami's gruesome death, he shows up right at the most opportune moment when Sayaka despairs from Kamijo's reaction towards her.

Despite being able to telepathically communicate to all the MGs within certain range, he will sometimes choose to include those in range but other times shut out others, when he was talking exclusively to Madoka from Sayaka's shoulder for example.

It was never shown that Homura are able to communicate telepathically through QB. This may confirm her being an irregular but can also be a tactic used by QB since he can clearly control who can communicate using telepathy through him.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I'm calling it. Madoka can't win by contracting with Kyubey because darkness can not defeat darkness. If she makes that contract, we're royally fucked (we, as in the whole world!!). I'm freaking calling it!!!

On a purely gut-feeling basis I'm inclined to agree with you. I think it's extremely likely that Madoka _will_ turn into a MG at the end, but I have difficulties seeing it happen with QB, if not in a "wishing for something that screws him over" way.

There is one important part from the OP undaddressed: The grey catlike familar that Madoka in MG form is hugging. Maybe a QB2, operating on different terms? Allowing for a more idealistic and less cynical world?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Mentar

On a purely gut-feeling basis I'm inclined to agree with you. I think it's extremely likely that Madoka _will_ turn into a MG at the end, but I have difficulties seeing it happen with QB, if not in a "wishing for something that screws him over" way.

I think becoming a magical girl without QB is a bit more likely than screwing him with a wish. Note how Homura is always warning Madoka about the contract and being a magical girl in general. As far as Homura's concerned, no matter what Madoka wish for, if she makes the contract she's screwed. Besides, I think we all agree that Madoka holds the "light" that can smash the "darkness". If you think about it, Madoka's own power is more likely to be that "light" than a wish from QB, right?

And yeah, I can see the cat from the OP having a key (and positive) role somehow, but I don't know exactly how it would play out.

[Hmm....]

Originally Posted by Mentar

On a purely gut-feeling basis I'm inclined to agree with you. I think it's extremely likely that Madoka _will_ turn into a MG at the end, but I have difficulties seeing it happen with QB, if not in a "wishing for something that screws him over" way.

There is one important part from the OP undaddressed: The grey catlike familar that Madoka in MG form is hugging. Maybe a QB2, operating on different terms? Allowing for a more idealistic and less cynical world?

Grey cat ? I only saw a black one. Is it the the same cat that I post about earlier ? What do you think about my theory anyway

IMO if Madoka do make a wish to be MG again, which is very likely, it'll be with QB. I doubt we'll be introduced new mascot character. Yea a screwing wish is also possible, but my bet is that QB won't be screwed at all ^^"

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Hmm....

Grey cat ? I only saw a black one. Is it the the same cat that I post about earlier ? What do you think about my theory anyway

(yes, it's the same cat - but that's grey on my monitor, not black)

It could be... what I'm very confident of is that Madoka and Homura shared a joint past. Madoka forgot about Homura. Combined with the Homura-centric ED lyrics ("also make a wish for power for another one's sake") it seems to indicate to me that Homura made a wish for Madoka's sake, and the most logical explanation I can come up with that combines everything else is that Homura wished for Madoka's "normal life".

So, assuming that Homura indeed is the cat - was she a cat before? If so, how comes she could make a wish? If she's going to become a cat later - how comes?

I feel we don't have enough pieces to really make an educated guess yet.

[Kaoru Chujo]

I'm not sure if this is of any significance or not, but today a Japanese site published a translation of an English quote on the cover of the new comic for this show:

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

[aeriolewinters]

This just screams Madoka becomes Mahou Shoujo:

Spoiler:

on her own terms. I'm quite positive now. The speculation that Madoka might become a true Magical Girl, might come into fruition. If the guess is right, I'm thinking that Madoka will be a different Magical girl from what we've seen. I'd also guess that Madoka's powers purify instead of kill witches, if the former is true.

[MeoTwister5]

I just have to ask myself this: If say contracting with QB and becoming an MG on his terms is equatable to pointlessly fighting fire with fire, yet she has to gain power and fight them in some way, then she has to gain power by some other means other than contracting with QB, lest she allow a new recurrence of the vicious cycle Homura is somehow trying to end.

As to how she'll gain power in a manner that does not involve a devil's contract with QB is still left to speculation.

[Kawakanai]

I'm really intrigued by the idea that Madoka could be come a 'true' magical girl.

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

Sounds like a possible hint to that effect.

I'm curious if she might manage to manifest as a powerful magical girl without contracting with Kyuube. Or would she still have to work within that system and still need to make a contract with the furball? Just that it would have to be a selfless, expansive wish?

Maybe just being exposed to all MG encounters and battle + determination= making it possible with a selfless wish for the greater good? Witnessing this other world of MGs and witches existing alongside the real world might be enough to manifest the powers.

Maybe that's why Kyuube is so earnest to get the girls to contract, as the longer they survive as normal girls with brushes with the MG/Witch world the more likely they are to manifest MG ability without Kyuube's help.

If this is even possible, I hope there is some plot build up that there are alternative ways to become magical girls rather then out of the blue in say, episode 11.

Originally Posted by Mentar

So, assuming that Homura indeed is the cat - was she a cat before? If so, how comes she could make a wish? If she's going to become a cat later - how comes?.

Instead of wishing for cake to become a MG, maybe Madoka wished for a little black cat?

[aeriolewinters]

I'm really intrigued by the idea that Madoka could be come a 'true' magical girl.

Spoiler for A speculation:

Let's say we're going to probably have two scenarios:
1. Madoka becomes contracted by Kyubey, but she does something very different compared to what the other Mahou Shoujo are doing.
1.1 If Kyubey really is evil; one would think that generally, he'd be scheming to get rid of Madoka for she will show the others, a way in which it necessarily puts a 'Kirk' way of getting out of this 'Kobayashi Maru'. i.e. a cheat/ or technicality bend.
1.2 If Kyubey is ammoral/not 'evil'; It would mean that his constant search for that real Magical girl has come into fruition. Finally, someone who understands the whole contract.

2. Madoka becomes a Magical Girl without kyubey's contract: In this scenario, there are two possibilities:
2.1 Madoka is gets her power from another creature not necessarily contracting with it (like Yuuno and Nanoha), most likely like some kind of 'Lady-of-the-lake' like persona wherein it's not a wish that forges Madoka's power, but her determination, this persona would just make the 'will' tangible.

2.2 Madoka is a special girl, in the mold of Nanoha (Nanoha was said to have high Magical power, even before Yuuno arrived)

Madoka has several barriers(mostly lack of confidence) that have not been destroyed which leads us to how she can't become a Magical Girl.

My two cents

[Kawakanai]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Let's say we're going to probably have two scenarios:
1. Madoka becomes contracted by Kyubey, but she does something very different compared to what the other Mahou Shoujo are doing.

The only catch I can think of here is if Madoka contracts, she gets a soul gem and has the same problem of it darkening with funk each time she fights a witch (or it darkens just by Madoka existing as a MG- according to some theories). By buying into the system, Madoka is locked in just like all the other MGs by the rules of the system- which is why Homura is trying so hard to stop Madoka from contracting. Or maybe Madoka has some way to transcend the soul gem rules or has a 'really big' soul gem which would hew to the rest of your 1.x theory.

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

2.1 Madoka is gets her power from another creature not necessarily contracting with it (like Yuuno and Nanoha), most likely like some kind of 'Lady-of-the-lake' like persona wherein it's not a wish that forges Madoka's power, but her determination, this persona would just make the 'will' tangible.

You, know its interesting you put it that way: the 'older version' of Madoka in the OP could be that very entity of which you suppose. We do, after all, see the older girl manifesting Madoka's MG outfit where she touches her.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

I just have to ask myself this: If say contracting with QB and becoming an MG on his terms is equatable to pointlessly fighting fire with fire, yet she has to gain power and fight them in some way, then she has to gain power by some other means other than contracting with QB, lest she allow a new recurrence of the vicious cycle Homura is somehow trying to end.

As to how she'll gain power in a manner that does not involve a devil's contract with QB is still left to speculation.

Could get some advice from Homura... But then again she is trying to prevent Madoka from becoming a MG in the first place. I just keep getting the thought that Homura became a MG without contracting with Kyubey since he doesn't know, or that is just his "I'm not telling you" attitude that he has. Also how her activities are unknown to him when it seems he can monitor the other MG's movements.

[Kaijo]

If Homura was going to tell Madoka anything, she would have by now. She only seems to care that Madoka not be an MG, and that's it.

[estdesoda]

Originally Posted by Mentar

(yes, it's the same cat - but that's grey on my monitor, not black)

It could be... what I'm very confident of is that Madoka and Homura shared a joint past. Madoka forgot about Homura. Combined with the Homura-centric ED lyrics ("also make a wish for power for another one's sake") it seems to indicate to me that Homura made a wish for Madoka's sake, and the most logical explanation I can come up with that combines everything else is that Homura wished for Madoka's "normal life".

So, assuming that Homura indeed is the cat - was she a cat before? If so, how comes she could make a wish? If she's going to become a cat later - how comes?

I feel we don't have enough pieces to really make an educated guess yet.

Nobody ever said that only humans could become MG！

In fact, the show never said anything about the requirements of becoming MG.

I remember that there was a theory saying that MGs would have eternal youth, due to Homura's talks on "seeing countless MGs die". Now I just wonder, if signing up also grands one the ablility to become a humanoid for free, in addition to eternal youth..since magical girls are "girl"s. (Cats normally have a much shorter life than humans, so Homura might really have eternal youth if she was a cat.)

Maybe even transgender for free, too lol? I mean, well, there is nothing in the show that makes people suspect that any MGs might originally be males, so transgender is just a very random thought (that even I don't believe in).

But I do like the cat theory. Like it a lot.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

If Homura was going to tell Madoka anything, she would have by now. She only seems to care that Madoka not be an MG, and that's it.

I disagree. As the situation change, the characters change along with it. It's not farfethed at all to think that a time will come when Homura is forced to tell Madoka things she never inteded to tell her in the first place.

Anyway, let's wait a see.

On another note, I still stand by my theory that Madoka is going to become a magical girl without contracting with Kyubey.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I disagree. As the situation change, the characters change along with it. It's not farfethed at all to think that a time will come when Homura is forced to tell Madoka things she never inteded to tell her in the first place.

Anyway, let's way a see.

On another note, I still stand by my theory that Madoka is going to become a magical girl without contracting with Kyubey.

That's pretty interesting it made me wonder if in fact becoming a magical girl doesn't require QB at all. They have magic potential after all so it's not far fetched to say it could activate fully without QB being the one to do it. He in fact might just uses the contract to bind them to his side. The witches might just be his way of weeding out the weak ones and getting the strong ones stronger. Then of course you'd have to wonder for what purpose and who will he be having them fight against? Armageddon perhaps? Who's know but certainly an interesting possibility.