Macross Frontier - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[SaintessHeart]

I have a feeling that Mr Biler is going to be the next bad guy. Either him or a tentacle version of Leon.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Jazzrat

In macross it's perfectly acceptable to have weddings and childrens. Just look at how many childrens that Max and Milia had XD

Originally Posted by raile

Agreed. One of the things that Macross centralizes is love, so marriages are acceptable. Max and Milia, what a great couple.

There you go! 7 children while we are at it.

Couldn't say any better than this. I would do anything to see Alto and Sheryl running around with children at the end of the movie, which could be easier to be done if the basis of their relationship was explicitly cemented already.

[kilroy0097]

First off I gave the episode a 10/10 because it about as good as it's going to get to an ending for the series with as much crap as they needed to tie up in one 25 minute episode. Plus they point towards a movie to really wrap up anything left over. So technically this is a 26 episode series with 25 of them as normal episodes and the last being a feature movie. Kind of what Farscape eventually did which I liked.

There are still a few unanswered questions such as...

Spoiler for Brera Question:

What is the object in the foreground at the end when panning past Brera? He looks at it and seems to smile recognizing it perhaps. What is it?

Spoiler for Grace Question:

The look on her face after the horror of losing the success of her goal is that of either resolution or confidence. If confidence then I am certain we have not seen the last of her. Expect to see a Grace clone in a Macross feature later.

Spoiler for Bilrer Question:

Richard Bilrer is looking at a picture of Minmei in the cover of his ring. So the entire reasoning behind creating SMS, going along with the fold crystal plan, allowing Grace to do what she did and all the lose of life with the Vajra was only because he wanted to talk to Minmei? I highly doubt or at least hope that it's not the only reason. So is he attempting to perhaps find and contact Megaroad 1 where Minmei/Hayase and Hikaru are? There really needs to be more insight in his motivations and reasonings. This better be given some light in the movie.

I for one watch Macross for the following reasons in order of importance to me. Not you.
1. Story. This includes Character development, background, history of being, politics, science and everything that goes into making a good story.
2. Mecha and Technology. This is easy it's mech pron and cool technological usage and advances.
3. Songs. You can't have Macross without the songs and the songs kicked much ass.
4. Romance. This can be any romance. I actually liked Ozma and Cathy as well as Klan and Mikhail's romances more than the LT which actually annoyed me. Really really annoyed me.

The Love Triangle (LT), which obviously was the most important thing to many people watching this particular version of Macross, overshadowed and took over everything in importance. The entire series was geared around this LT and story, character development, history and background took backstage to it in importance. Though these other things did exist, you had to look for them and attempt to block the LT out of your head to really see the rest. You had to actively block any reference of the LT to these other things so you could see them more clearly for what they were. I felt that the LT took these backgrounds and utilized them as tool to make or at least seem to make the LT the axle of the wheel. Without the LT nothing else happens. I believe that this is fundamentally wrong.

Spoiler for Why?:

I got into a long debate on this issue and I feel that the LT is not the axle. It was more like a hubcap or shiny rims or actually the spinner on the wheel. The axle which does most of the work turning the wheel is the story, the background and history, the characters and the environment. The rubber on the wheel is the mech battles, the technology and story development. The songs of Macross are the rims themselves as they support those things that are the rubber on the wheel and connect it to the axle. The LT is the shiny spinner on the wheel. Oh look it's shiny and it attracts our attention but it's not the most important part.

However without the shiny spinner, otherwise known as the Love Triangle, no one would look at the wheel. It would be lost in the sea of other wheels out there and so it's possible that it would becoming something missed or unappreciated. Hence the LT was thrown in to attract all the anime viewers out there that like shiny things. To the rest of us the shiny thing is a bonus and nice to look at but we also look at the rest of the wheel. Like most old franchise they thought of a way to revive the franchise with a new modern look to it that appealed to the most fanatical of the anime otaku. Well Kawamori you found your group and they were attracted to the shiny spinner like a bug to a zapper.

There are many questions that are still left open in the series. The least important to me, but most important for many others, is who wins the LT in the end. Ranka or Sheryl? I have my speculations and opinions on the matter (probably Sheryl) but that's not what is primary in my want to see the movie that was announced. I want to see it because I want these other lose ends to be tied up. I want to see more story and more plot and more mech battles and less LT. I want all the things that were deficient in Macross F to be made up for in spades in the movie. I DO NOT want another DYRL Macross F version. I want a real move with real plots and real character development. I want to see a balanced viewing of all that makes up Macross. I don't want to see some glorified story of a lopsided broken triangle whose resolution will ignore the many other factors that make Macross great.

So I'm going to wait. I'm going to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

In the short term I'm going to wait for the fansubs.



That picture shows it all. Macross Fans win, Shippers Lose.
Ranka embraces Sheryl and learns that Sheryl's hopes and dreams are very soft and nice.
Alto gets his sky.

Happiness.

The End

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Tak

No, I am just saying basically how this entire episode was constructed. Its really there for some last moment appeasement to Ranka fans, so they throw in somethings that did not really make sense.

Especially with how epic Episode 24 set out to be.

But as I said, the board reaction is:

WTF!?

- Tak

Well, being a long-time comic reader, the romance aspect really had the signs of a last-minute editorial rewrite.

[glyph]

Originally Posted by kilroy0097

Spoiler for Brera Question:

What is the object in the foreground at the end when panning past Brera? He looks at it and seems to smile recognizing it perhaps. What is it?

Looks like a bird human fetish from Macross Zero.

Sara Nome/Mao Nome was here?

[kilroy0097]

Originally Posted by glyph

Looks like a bird human fetish from Macross Zero.

Sara Nome/Mao Nome was here?

Yea that's what I thought as well but it didn't seem to match up from the footage in Macross Zero. If it is there is something growing around and through it now. Vines or something else. Not sure what. Also doesn't explain why Brera would recognize it unless he saw it as a child in Mao's office or some place like that.

[CaptGloval]

Originally Posted by kilroy0097

I for one watch Macross for the following reasons in order of importance to me. Not you.
1. Story. This includes Character development, background, history of being, politics, science and everything that goes into making a good story.
2. Mecha and Technology. This is easy it's mech pron and cool technological usage and advances.
3. Songs. You can't have Macross without the songs and the songs kicked much ass.
4. Romance. This can be any romance. I actually liked Ozma and Cathy as well as Klan and Mikhail's romances more than the LT which actually annoyed me. Really really annoyed me.

I share that order of preference kilroy.

Now as for the movie, why do I have the feeling that we could get a prequel instead? There's a lot of questions about the research fleet and Bilrer. I guess these could be answered in a prequel (and yes, the triangle is still unresolved).

[Urei]

Originally Posted by kilroy0097

First off I gave the episode a 10/10 because it about as good as it's going to get to an ending for the series with as much crap as they needed to tie up in one 25 minute episode. Plus they point towards a movie to really wrap up anything left over. So technically this is a 26 episode series with 25 of them as normal episodes and the last being a feature movie. Kind of what Farscape eventually did which I liked.

Kind of makes you want not to call it an end though. As an episode it was fantastic. As an ending as it was portrayed to be, it's medicore. I gave it a 6/10 because I refuse to agree that this episode is to be called an ending. It provides a great setting for a movie. Though luck it's made only to get some more money.

kilroy, can't have one without the other. Macross is not a plot, mecha or romance anime. It's the combination of everything that makes it a great series. I don't mind this episode. It provided many things for people that search for one thing. It was a disappointment for those who seek other things.

I'm guessing people just won't accept it as an ending. No one knew about the movie so the reactions are fully justified. Also, I'm looking forward to the final character development I hope the movie will provide. The plot was always character driven. I will deem it as a failure if it won't provide it in a satisfactory amount.

[SaintessHeart]

Although I have watched most of the Macross series, the same old plotline it goes through (love triangle, music affecting enemy, and stuff like that) always seem to rub on an interest in me following the entire series through the end.

And in fact the only word I could find to describe Macross anime as overall is, "Beautiful". Maybe Urei is right, it is not just the music, it is a combination. But then again it might be the music, I catch every episode just to listen to Seikan Hikou and Northern Cross.

[Wesley84]

Curbstomp.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Originally Posted by kilroy0097

There are still a few unanswered questions such as...

Spoiler for Brera Question:

What is the object in the foreground at the end when panning past Brera? He looks at it and seems to smile recognizing it perhaps. What is it?

Spoiler for Grace Question:

The look on her face after the horror of losing the success of her goal is that of either resolution or confidence. If confidence then I am certain we have not seen the last of her. Expect to see a Grace clone in a Macross feature later.

Spoiler for Bilrer Question:

Richard Bilrer is looking at a picture of Minmei in the cover of his ring. So the entire reasoning behind creating SMS, going along with the fold crystal plan, allowing Grace to do what she did and all the lose of life with the Vajra was only because he wanted to talk to Minmei? I highly doubt or at least hope that it's not the only reason. So is he attempting to perhaps find and contact Megaroad 1 where Minmei/Hayase and Hikaru are? There really needs to be more insight in his motivations and reasonings. This better be given some light in the movie.

The End

Brera Question: It could be memory from his childhood when he is on the planet with his family. Hence the nostalgic smile when he recognizes it. Maybe something he used to play with when he is still a kid with his sister.

Grace Question: To me it looks like she recognizes it is endgame for her hence her horrified look and last facial expression to me says " FUCK YOU!!!!!!" to Alto.

As villain role, I think her role is finished since she failed to wipe out humanity in her revenge. I don't think she will appear in any substantial manner in movie in the future.

Bilrer: It could be just simple Min Mei fanboy decided to go on quest to look for his beloved idol. After the farewell concert 2012, Min Mei boarded the Megaroad with Hayes and Hichigo which disappeared in mysterious manner.

By having direct access to Vajra crystal, it gives him more chance to find Min Mei's Megaroad since he controlled the access node of fold space in Macross Universe.

Just some ideas. Feel free to debate.

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by Paul Hausser

Human beings are selfish. Sharing isn't in our nature.

P2P networks would seem to disprove that point.

And, WTF at wesley...

[Urei]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

Bilrer: It could be just simple Min Mei fanboy decided to go on quest to look for his beloved idol. After the farewell concert 2012, Min Mei boarded the Megaroad with Hayes and Hichigo which disappeared in mysterious manner.

By having direct access to Vajra crystal, it gives him more chance to find Min Mei's Megaroad since he controlled the access node of fold space in Macross Universe.

Just some ideas. Feel free to debate.

Biller will play a major role in my opinion. We only got bits and pieces on his agenda. He survived and I'm sure he's up to something with the Fold Network. BTW, I pointed out jokingly once that he may be doing it for Minmay. Never expected for it to actually turn true

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

P2P networks would seem to disprove that point.

And, WTF at wesley...

Yeah, I'm back. I watched the raw, and it was worse than I feared. Pretty much everything happened that I didn't want to happen. Even Klan getting in Mikhail's VF.

[glyph]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

Bilrer: It could be just simple Min Mei fanboy decided to go on quest to look for his beloved idol. After the farewell concert 2012, Min Mei boarded the Megaroad with Hayes and Hichigo which disappeared in mysterious manner.

Or it could just be an old photo of someone else holo-cosplaying as Minmay. After the "SDF-1 ruins" on Gallia IV I've become skeptical of WTF points Kawamori throws out.

[BetoJR]

I'm not. He seems to be an expert at the WTF moments, wouldn't you say so?

[Sinestra]

Spoiler for Told ya so:

Ha i stated forever ago that we probably would get a sappy ending where no ones feelings get hurt, because Alto wont chose either one and people called me crazy well i was right. Although i was pulling for Sheryl if a decision was made but deep in my heart i knew it would end this way.

[Mgz]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

There you go! 7 children while we are at it.

Couldn't say any better than this. I would do anything to see Alto and Sheryl running around with children at the end of the movie, which could be easier to be done if the basis of their relationship was explicitly cemented already.

who care about alto and sheryl making babies....the only thing that alto is making is a mess

on the other hand, Cathy x Ozma are making babies already!!!

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

Grace Question: To me it looks like she recognizes it is endgame for her hence her horrified look and last facial expression to me says " FUCK YOU!!!!!!" to Alto.

or in that instance she uploads her memory to the internet network (?), lurking somewhere on the net, waiting to be reprogram into a new body. GITS anybody ?

[indr0008]

Originally Posted by golthin

Yikes! Rabid sheryl fans reaching for conclusions from anything. the earing just was a means for Alto, Ranka and Sheryl to communicate. IF Alto had not had that earing he could not have joined in the Vajra network with Sheryl and Ranka. the earing is a symbol of the three of them. Notice that the same thing happened with the first earing, Alto was able to get in touch with BOTH girls.
Again, now we use Japanese culture to our convenience.

Alto Salute was a mean to tell Sheryl that all was well and mission accomplished(he came back like he promised). IT is hard to find a symbolism when you wear Shipping goggles. Kawamori is just counting of the 90% of the fans short term memory, it will be at least 3-6 months before the movie is out.

why hello there rabid-ranka-fans-that-has-been-saying-that-he-is-not-for-the-God-knows-how-many-times

Originally Posted by solothurn

The Northern Cross is crying.

PURE GOLD

[Wesley84]

That damn earring. Spiting me to the last.