Macross Frontier 2nd Movie: Sayonara no Tsubasa

[BetoJR]

You guys are weird.

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

You guys are weird.

LISTEN TO RANKA'S SONG!!!

[Tak]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

You guys are weird.

And you are unique... just like everyone else...

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

LISTEN TO RANKA'S SONG!!!

Hey, thats my sister!

- Tak

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Tak

Hey, thats my sister!

- Tak

That explains everything.

[magnuskn]

Hm, that pretty much really looks like how a real-life Ranka would probably look.

Originally Posted by Tak

Hey, thats my sister!

- Tak

So, are you Ozma or Banana?

[Thess]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

One thing that is a bit unfair, is that Ranka has gotten the far better songs in movie two. Oh, well, she had to win at something. ^^

I usually prefer Sheryl's songs, but Hoshi Kira and Sou Da Yo (from the first movie ending) are simply beautiful.

[MichiNekoChan]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Yep. Ranka's greatest song, BAR NONE.

Yea, I've been creeping people out around me when I randomly go "rimareru rarameru ran rura ran" and "OPEN RANKA!"

It's a ridiculously catchy song. Thing is too, that it wasn't even anywhere near my playlist until to movie came out. I didn't like Nijiro Kuma Kuma by itself, but now knowing the visuals... I like it a lot.

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by karice67

I haven't had time to look at the first film again, but I'm sure Sheryl knew about the plans in general. Although it's questionable what she'd been told about the reasons for them - e.g. it seems that she'd been told that it was for the purpose of protecting people.

Grace's dialogue seems to suggest that Sheryl's mission was to find Code Q-1 (Ranka) and act as stopgap in the meantime. I got the impression Sheryl thought her job was to act as a countermeasure against the Vajra rather than as a means to take control of them and take over the galaxy though.

Grace definitely made Sheryl aware of her nasty plans she had for Ranka in the second film but I don't she told Sheryl about the planned takeover of Frontier. Her behaviour during her interactions with Alto at the hospital wasn't consistent with her being aware of that.

As for the Vajra showing up... Sheryl might have been aware of the risk that her signing would attract them but I don't think it was her plan to lure them to Frontier. I don't think her freaking out the times they showed up in the first movie was acting (on a related note, she seemed awfully outraged by Alto and Frontier's behaviour towards her and her home fleet in the first movie, which is interesting considering it wasn't entirely without justification).

It should be noted that the last time I saw Itsuwari no Utahime in full was right before I watched Sayonara no Tsubasa, and that I'm a Sheryl fan who would like to see movie Sheryl's actions in a positive light. So take what I've said with a grain of salt.

On a related note has anyone else wondered if movie Sheryl would actually get a happy ending after she woke up? Regardless of what she may have done to redeem herself some of the stuff she was involved in was pretty serious.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

On a related note has anyone else wondered if movie Sheryl would actually get a happy ending after she woke up? Regardless of what she may have done to redeem herself some of the stuff she was involved in was pretty serious.

'History is written by the victors'. Do keep in mind, that many of these 'crimes' depend on the eye of the beholder. As some commentators in the field I am currently studying are known to note: one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.

Furthermore, the people who were going to have her killed have themselves been killed...

Not to mention that the people of Frontier have far more important things to do: i.e. building their new lives...

IMHO, these are some of the issues that some viewers probably need to keep in mind for the series too.

======

edit: And being able to watch the film again has really improved my appreciation of the soundtrack, my favourites from the 2nd film being "Hoshi Kira" and the title song. The only song I don't particular care for at the moment is "Koi ha Dogfight"...it's just...*shrugs*. But I've been listening to the soundtrack shuffled with all the songs from the series and the first movie for the last 7 months, so sometimes don't even remember where each first appears

[ChronoReverse]

It's not like they were particularly convincing about Sheryl being a spy. All they said was, "She's a spy who led the Vajra here and we're executing her now without a trial".

You can see the citizens of Frontier doing a double-take at that. A little good information management and I doubt Sheryl would be troubled by this.

Plus she had her concert with tons of fans =)

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

It's not like they were particularly convincing about Sheryl being a spy. All they said was, "She's a spy who led the Vajra here and we're executing her now without a trial".

You can see the citizens of Frontier doing a double-take at that. A little good information management and I doubt Sheryl would be troubled by this.

Plus she had her concert with tons of fans =)

Also, now that NUNS is more involved with the new colony ( they'd have to be, unless I am mistaken a colony ship founding a new colony is a big thing ), they'd probably try to put a stop to things like "executions without trials". That Sheryl still is a big star in the whole known galaxy is another factor.

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

One thing that is a bit unfair, is that Ranka has gotten the far better songs in movie two. Oh, well, she had to win at something. ^^

I think in an interview, Nakajima said that this time around, they were going to show Ranka in the spotlight, if that's any help there.

Originally Posted by BetoJR

IMHO, neither one had any good new songs this time around. But I'm still on the fence about the whole soundtrack...

I was too at first. I was slightly depressed about the Nyan Final Attack in the film. The piece where you get the build up, in my head, I had been picturing a fight scene or even a bunch of blowing up but instead it's all "S.M.S. received our S.O.S. signal, they're here!" and show them arriving only, no fighting at all. So I was really depressed by how well the track flowed with battle scenes but yet they failed to show any real good ones at that point of the track. Sad...

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Oh, I definitely liked Rankas concert song and the song from the ending of the movie very much ( I don't mean the duet with Sheryl, but the other one... although the duet with Sheryl was fine, too ).

Ranka's concert: Niji-Iro Kuma Kuma
Ranka's ending song: Hoshi Kira

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

But yeah...while "Sayonara no Tsubasa" is (to me, at least) as fraught with tension and drama as "Diamond Crevasse," I find myself humming "Nijiiro Kuma Kuma" at the oddest times...it's so damn CATCHY!

I like Sayonara no Tsubasa, but it's no Northern Cross or Lion to me.

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Valkyria...da-da-da-DUH-DUH-DUH!! Valkyria...da-DA-da...DUH!-DUH!-DENH!!

Okay, this might be just a little off-topic, but you mentioning this had me remembering a line in the actually soundtrack piece itself that apparently hasn't been noticed.

When Sheryl and Ranka sing the last "valkyria" piece, before "sayonara no tsubasa" comes, they actually say (vocalizing) "tobe". So the line is "valkyria, valkyrie tobe - sayonara no tsubasa" if you include the vocalizing. I thought that was slightly funny to hear that piece and realize it wasn't noticed in the final put out of the lyrics (on the official soundtrack piece).

Originally Posted by Thess

I usually prefer Sheryl's songs, but Hoshi Kira and Sou Da Yo (from the first movie ending) are simply beautiful.

I prefer Songbird over a lot of the other songs Ranka has done. But then again, I also prefer Yousei over Diamond Crevasse lately. Maybe it's spur of the moment love...

[karice67]

And starting the final 'info dump' I'll probably be doing, mostly from the

Director Interview – Kawamori Shouji, pp.120-123 of the “Official Complete Book”

• This time, I’ll split it into parts so that you can all digest and actually comment on it.
• For simplicity’s sake, after the first reference, I am calling the films “False Diva” and “Wings”.
• As before, the parts where I’ve put in a fair amount of interpretation are marked in [square brackets]. If anyone spots any mistakes etc, please let me know!

[To be honest, this ending is the one closest to the idea that I originally came up with early on.]

Spoiler for length:

What was the moment when you thought that “The Wings of Farewell” was complete?

When we were doing the sound editing. Normally, the sound editing for a film is carried out in portions, but after doing a rough version, we played through the entire film. The sound balance hadn’t yet been fine-tuned, but with that viewing, I just thought ‘it’s done’. After we’d finished fine-tuning the sound, the next time we saw it was at the preview screening. I was a lot more nervous that day than for “The False Diva”. And after the screening, for the first time ever, I started seeing dreams of the editing and sound editing processes. It seems like Macross F might still not have ended for me.

This time, we’ve come to the end of the story. Did you decide on that ending quickly?

We really wrestled with it, thinking up many patterns. More than anything, I think it’d have been interesting, from an observer’s point of view, to have witnessed the gatherings of all the bigwigs talking about what to do with the (love) triangle, the ending and so on (laughs). To be honest, this ending is the one closest to the idea that I originally came up with early on*. But even then, I had trouble deciding what the dialogue should be even until the day of the recording itself. Towards the end of the recording session, I finalized the dialogue and had Nakamura (Yuuichi), Endo (Aya) and Nakajima (Megumi) record it. Thus, until the day of the preview, the ending of the film was known just to the three of them.

* This could mean ‘early on’ in thinking about the films…or ‘early on’ in the development of Macross F altogether. I’m personally more inclined to think it was the latter… ——karice

Weren’t the voice actors thrown off course by that decision?

For me, I felt that knowing the ending would mean that how they act out the ending would change. I thought that it might be better if they were a little off balance whilst they were acting it out.

At first glance, it seemed like you incorporated something of the atmosphere of the concert from the start into the scene.

That’s right. After we finished recording the final scene, we went back and rerecorded the lines in the introduction of the film. As a result, the final lines of dialogue that were recorded were the opening lines to “Wings”.

And my own comments:

Spoiler for do read the interview snippet first...:

• If you think this is a weird place to pause, you're right. I'm sure you can guess what the next question will be about...
• I am so incredibly glad I saw “Wings” in Feb, before this book was released. I’d have HATED reading about the opening lines before seeing the film, because it left me wondering what in the world they changed when they rerecorded them!
• I actually agree with Nakamura (from this interview) – he at least should have known for sure about Alto's feelings for Ranka’s confession scene. Although, it seems that the direction they got in that scene definitely had the outcome in mind.
• And finally, aren’t you glad now that you didn’t get Kawamori’s original idea for the ending of the TV series?

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by karice67

And my own comments:

Spoiler for do read the interview snippet first...:

• If you think this is a weird place to pause, you're right. I'm sure you can guess what the next question will be about...
• And finally, aren’t you glad now that you didn’t get Kawamori’s original idea for the ending of the TV series?

I'm not sure what you mean with "a weird place to pause". Hence I can't answer the following question about "what will be the next question".

And since Kawamori didn't make it clear what his original idea was ( only that it was "close" ), it's difficult to say.

Thanks for the translations!

[Thess]

Originally Posted by karice67

Spoiler for do read the interview snippet first...:

And finally, aren’t you glad now that you didn’t get Kawamori’s original idea for the ending of the TV series?

Spoiler for interview stuff:

Actually, I figured this out after Kawamori 'joked' around Alto's fate in the commentary (probably the original idea was for him to be KIA, not MIA?). Now we know why Yoshino changed it, since he's more fanservice-like and happy go lucky in his ideas.

[MichiNekoChan]

Originally Posted by karice67

You're welcome.


Though...er, I should have checked that confession scene. I've edited it again and added a line so that the timing hopefully works a bit better...

It's now an "I lov-" line, and it's working fine on my computer...

Off to learn how to properly remux then. I'm still getting funky lettering.

Spoiler for image space:

Originally Posted by karice67

Spoiler for Trans:

This time, we’ve come to the end of the story. Did you decide on that ending quickly?

We really wrestled with it, thinking up many patterns. More than anything, I think it’d have been interesting, from an observer’s point of view, to have witnessed the gatherings of all the bigwigs talking about what to do with the (love) triangle, the ending and so on (laughs). To be honest, this ending is the one closest to the idea that I originally came up with early on*. But even then, I had trouble deciding what the dialogue should be even until the day of the recording itself. Towards the end of the recording session, I finalized the dialogue and had Nakamura (Yuuichi), Endo (Aya) and Nakajima (Megumi) record it. Thus, until the day of the preview, the ending of the film was known just to the three of them.

* This could mean ‘early on’ in thinking about the films…or ‘early on’ in the development of Macross F altogether. I’m personally more inclined to think it was the latter… ——karice

I really hope its the latter as well. That would definitely put to rest that Sheryl winning was only Yoshinos idea (One can dream, right?)

[Thess]

Originally Posted by MichiNekoChan

I really hope its the latter as well. That would definitely put to rest that Sheryl winning was only Yoshinos idea (One can dream, right?)

Shouldn't be obvious it wasn't? Kawamori wrote the dialogue and the script this time, not Yoshino.

That's why it's a bittersweet ending.

[supernaps]

Originally Posted by MichiNekoChan

I really hope its the latter as well. That would definitely put to rest that Sheryl winning was only Yoshinos idea (One can dream, right?)

If only.

Thanks for the translations, the interview was rather interesting.

[FlavoryFantasy]

Finally had some time to see this movie, it was well worth the wait. I enjoyed Macross Frontier so I a bit sad this is the end, but oh well it ended well enough for me. (though I was hoping someone else would die, like Luca ) My favorite scene out of the movie...it probably was when the Macross Quarter entered the Vajra homeworld, and riding dem waves, I didn't expect that at all so it was awesome. Ranka's concert with Niji-Iro Kuma Kuma was adorable too

Guess it's time for me to catch up on some of the other Macross series.
Also thank you for the translated interviews Karice!! They were a interesting read!

[karice67]

Originally Posted by MichiNekoChan

Off to learn how to properly remux then. I'm still getting funky lettering.

Spoiler for image space:

Sorry, I really don't know how that's happening... but might I suggest Mkvtoolnix? It's pretty straightforward to use.

=======

Originally Posted by Thess

Spoiler for interview stuff (on the ending):

Actually, I figured this out after Kawamori 'joked' around Alto's fate in the commentary (probably the original idea was for him to be KIA, not MIA?). Now we know why Yoshino changed it, since he's more fanservice-like and happy go lucky in his ideas.

Spoiler for response:

My own take on this comment is also built on some other comments by various members of the cast (and staff?) about Alto and also about Michel, about how they're guys who wouldn't put anything into such direct words as "I love you" unless something drastic happens.

So yeah, I think that Kawamori's original ending had a clear resolution to the triangle, but on the flip side, Alto probably disappeared/died.

Originally Posted by MichiNekoChan

I really hope its the latter as well. That would definitely put to rest that Sheryl winning was only Yoshinos idea (One can dream, right?)

Originally Posted by Thess

Shouldn't be obvious it wasn't? Kawamori wrote the dialogue and the script this time, not Yoshino.

Yoshino doesn't actually help his own cause at all - he's remarkably cagey about what he thinks about the triangle. (This being in all the interviews he did after the series ended.) The whole staff and cast are, really

And in his "Official Complete Book" interview, Yoshino actually does reveal that a lot of his ideas were approved for the series. As a result, he was happy to let Kawamori do what he wanted for the films. They are both credited for the screenplay: but apparently, Yoshino wrote the scenario, after which Kawamori changed quite a few things, even removing the death of at least one character (which one is unspecified).

But I still stand by what I've discussed with a few people now - the role reversals in the films - all the 'what ifs' - CLEARLY show how the triangle ended in the series. So even if you don't subscribe to Kawamori's postmodernist approach to Macross, you can easily say that the resolution is the same across all the 'different continuities'.