GATE - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[rladls2121]

Zorzal, please notice, isn't this situation kind of wrong?
Since he rules the country now, it is not too late for him to make decision to surrender and proceed with peace talks without any interruption this time.

I guess pro-peace people from the Empire strong feelings to retaliate and be executed are why they couldn't be rescued just like the others.

[Iron Maw]

Well, went almost entirely as expected to the point that it's... almost kind of boring in some respects. Well since it's just gonna be Itami and co breaking into the palace next week things should be a bit more tense like at climax of the Flame Dragon Arc.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I know they had to leave something for Itami to do, but I find it rather silly no one considered rescuing Pina. Before launching the mission, I mean.

B-but they would get in the way of Pina finally getting added into Itami's harem!

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

Hmm. Was the JSDF General aware Pina had been tossed in the dungeon?

Why wouldn't they be? It wasn't a secret. Bozes even knew where she was imprisoned. Bozes, who'd been fighting Zorzal's troop when that went down. And the JSDF has assets in the capital. Including Zorzal's own cook.

[Nvis]

Itami going "Solid Snake"/Splinter Cell next ep?

[knaka148]

Originally Posted by YF19EX

Well its actually be a few days has it not? They put her in around the 4 days or so since the battle for the Jade Palace. So she has probably been in captivity for around that long. But at the same time, yea, her screams were indicative of something worse than just being locked up for a few days.

Two things here. First, I think its easy for someone to break if they're exposed to their fears. If Pina's fear is something like not being in control or being confined, or even being in a small space, then I think its reasonable she may break down in that situation. Second, are we sure that she has just been locked up for that time period? I haven't read the web novel source material, but from what I've heard on this forum and others, there has been a lot of censoring, especially in the first cour.

[MrTerrorist]

Finally! The capital is under attack.
If the US was involved, they would have rain FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY on Zorzal and his minions.
I think they over done it with Pina screaming for help.
Next week is the finale!

[francescoG1]

Originally Posted by knaka148

I haven't read the web novel source material, but from what I've heard on this forum and others, there has been a lot of censoring, especially in the first cour.

In the novel Pina was never imprisoned. This part is only present in the anime...

[watisit]

Originally Posted by PSY.Gangnam

Hell, it's not as if she was tortured/raped or anything. That scene was really dramatized to the highest heavens, IMO.

It shouldn't be that long to cause someone to go absolutely mental, but I'm more interested to know how her imprisonment was portrayed/handled in the novels.

She was imprisoned in the LN, but it was more of a house arrest. One of the pictures showed her in her usual outfit looking up at the helicopter taking Bozes away.

I wonder why this difference?

Also, about the Jade Palace fight, why not open with grenades and the like? And take out the archers and the black guys with the first shot.

[Yan3242]

^maybe to make it more believable? I mean house arrest seems pretty light so they though being a prisoner/slave make more sense?

Also, about the Jade Palace fight, why not open with grenades and the like?

Yeah its like they mess up the order of fire, they should use the grenade launcher first as opener than hail the rest with bullets.

I doubt itami and his harem is going to go solid snake/splinter cell style, if he's alone yeah maybe, but with immortal war goddess, dragon killer wizard and 2 combat ready elves.... Subtle is definitely the last thing you want with your current setup

Itami himself is pretty much unkillable thanks to rori contract

[aohige]

I think there was actually a casualty during the last scenes from Kengun's team in the novel.
I'll have to check when I get back, but I remember a soldier either dying or severely wounded while trying to get Bozes/Vifeeta on board the Chinook.

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Why wouldn't they be? It wasn't a secret. Bozes even knew where she was imprisoned. Bozes, who'd been fighting Zorzal's troop when that went down. And the JSDF has assets in the capital. Including Zorzal's own cook.

Bozes knew Pina was in the palace. And nowhere do I recall anyone in the Rose Knights or the JSDF saying Pina was imprisoned.

In Ep 22 at about the 13:00 mark Pina was imprisoned. Bozes and Beefeater are under siege at the Jade Palace and, while they know that Pina is at the Palace, they are unaware that she has been chained and thrown in the dungeon. While Bozes says they should get Pina out of the palace, they do not believe that Pina would be harmed as she is a member of the Imperial Family. That situation for Bozes hasn't changed by the time the JSDF raids the Jade Palace in Ep 23.

Itami's group found out in Rondel via special messenger summoned by Grey but they have unreliable commo with HQ. Besides this is Itami: Iwouldn't be surprised if he forgot to mention it to the General and just went charging off to the Capitol.

As for the cook; the kitchen that makes the food for the palace is hardly the same kitchen that makes food for the scum in the dungeon.

All in all I'm not surprised that the JSDF are unaware of Pina's imprisonment.

[Azuma Denton]

Wait, just a rescue mission and they are already inches away from conquering capital?
JDF too OP...

Zorzal expression is priceless...
That's what you get for not gathering information about your enemy especially if you know before hand that those enemies are way more advanced than you are...

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Yan3242

^maybe to make it more believable? I mean house arrest seems pretty light so they though being a prisoner/slave make more sense?

There are traditions of putting aristocratic... problems under house arrest rather than the dungeons. For a variety of reasons, chief among them to reinforce the belief that aristocrats aren't the same as peasants.

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

Bozes knew Pina was in the palace. And nowhere do I recall anyone in the Rose Knights or the JSDF saying Pina was imprisoned.

In Ep 22 at about the 13:00 mark Pina was imprisoned. Bozes and Beefeater are under siege at the Jade Palace and, while they know that Pina is at the Palace, they are unaware that she has been chained and thrown in the dungeon. While Bozes says they should get Pina out of the palace, they do not believe that Pina would be harmed as she is a member of the Imperial Family. That situation for Bozes hasn't changed by the time the JSDF raids the Jade Palace in Ep 23.

Itami's group found out in Rondel via special messenger summoned by Grey but they have unreliable commo with HQ. Besides this is Itami: Iwouldn't be surprised if he forgot to mention it to the General and just went charging off to the Capitol.

As for the cook; the kitchen that makes the food for the palace is hardly the same kitchen that makes food for the scum in the dungeon.

All in all I'm not surprised that the JSDF are unaware of Pina's imprisonment.

It's not like Grey specifically had someone in hiding to watch Pina and report to him. He just had the information when contact with the capital reopened.

And the JSDF didn't place the cook there just to give Zorzal an appreciation for fine cuisine. He is in the right place to hear all the palace's rumors. And report to someone. And he can't be the JSDF's only source of information. The point is, unless Zorzal made a specific effort to have Pina disappear, there should have been plenty of ways for the information to get to the Red Light forces and then to Arnus Hill.

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by Azuma Denton

Wait, just a rescue mission and they are already inches away from conquering capital?
JDF too OP...

Zorzal expression is priceless...
That's what you get for not gathering information about your enemy especially if you know before hand that those enemies are way more advanced than you are...

JSDF is just doing what they could have always done right after they had finished setting up Alnus as a base. One would think that Zorzal would finally start getting a hint that he's way outta of his league, but Tyuule's sweet talk combined with his own innate arrogance is too strong for some common sense to come through.

[DmonHiro]

Think about this:
The Japanese just fell from the sky and wasted your troops. The remaining soldiers and Zorzal are thankful to be alive. And here comes Itami to save Pina, bringing with him a demi-goddess, a powerful Elf, a master magician and a dark elf assassin. Oh, and he regenerates.

Bad day for the Empire.

[Anh_Minh]

I'm not sure why you're calling Yao an assassin. She may well have never killed anyone in her life.

And while, yes, all of those are pretty bad, at least they're things they're used to. Though possibly they aren't used to fighting demi-gods. (I kinda wonder what their mandate is. They don't rule directly, but they can exterminate large groups of people, no questions asked.)

[Brother Coa]

Empire is still not used to fighting 21'st century military as they have not yet seen their full capability.

I mean, other than Alnus Hill SDF didn't used tanks or artillery against Empire ( and I doubt that those who survived managed to give full information about what they saw ). And these two, alongside air-force, are the main fist of SDF in the region.

Especially the artillery, which can hit them 40 km away ( Type 99 155 mm self-propelled howitzer maximal firing range ). They will definitely not be ready to fight agaisnt this.

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It's not like Grey specifically had someone in hiding to watch Pina and report to him. He just had the information when contact with the capital reopened.

And the JSDF didn't place the cook there just to give Zorzal an appreciation for fine cuisine. He is in the right place to hear all the palace's rumors. And report to someone. And he can't be the JSDF's only source of information. The point is, unless Zorzal made a specific effort to have Pina disappear, there should have been plenty of ways for the information to get to the Red Light forces and then to Arnus Hill.

True, but it depends on how Pina's imprisonment was handled. How many others saw her taken away, how closed-mouthed were those guards, etc. After they closed the cell door it possible that no one but the guy that brought her food ever came near her door.

Also, the cook may have heard something, but it would depend on when he heard it, how long it took him to confirm it, and how quickly he could relay that information to higher. It also depends on the level of reliability the JSDF Intel section at Alnus would assign the information.

All that I can relay from my own experience is that one can never assume accurate information is widely shared, and also that there's always someone who doesn't get the word.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

True, but it depends on how Pina's imprisonment was handled. How many others saw her taken away, how closed-mouthed were those guards, etc. After they closed the cell door it possible that no one but the guy that brought her food ever came near her door.

Yeah. But Grey got the word. Thus, my point that it wasn't a big secret. (And really, Zorzal isn't the subtle type. He wants people to see him exert power, rather than just suspect he's exerted power.)

And - looking at it from another side - securing Pina should have been a priority whether they knew her exact status or not. Because the puppet government option looks increasingly likely, and she'd be very, very useful for that. So they should have traced her location while waiting for the authorization to actually intervene.

So, yes, it's possible Itami somehow has better intelligence than the JSDF command, but I'd chalk it up more to convenient writing than actual likelihood.

(Also possible: they know where she is, but decided against taking the palace at this point.)

[HandofFate]

Originally Posted by watisit

She was imprisoned in the LN, but it was more of a house arrest. One of the pictures showed her in her usual outfit looking up at the helicopter taking Bozes away.

I wonder why this difference?

Also, about the Jade Palace fight, why not open with grenades and the like? And take out the archers and the black guys with the first shot.

[/QUOTE]

Its a pretty dumb change.
They made her be imprisioned for real and make her break down just to raise the stakes of Itami coming to save her, and really damaged her character