Full Metal Panic Invisible Victory - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Pellissier]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Full Metal Panic Invisible Victory, Episode 8.

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[HunterSeeker]

No doubt, this episode is stunningly done. Aside from actually finishing everything they need, they actually showed how powerful Sousuke is as a pilot, and also how dangerous Kurama is. Both the 10v1 and 1v1 fights are intense enough to make first-time viewers feel the goosebumps; there're details and emotions missed, but they delivered.

Of course, RIP Nami and Crossbow. Both of you will be missed.

Spoiler:

Though the ARX-8 near the end is probably a fake one. For now.

[Klashikari]

I will sound again like a party pooper, but this episode was pretty much the opposite of the other ones: the storyboard was good, pretty great in certain parts of the episode (notably the last part of Sousuke VS Kurama confrontation), but the general sakuga quality was noticeably subpar compared to the rest of the series thus far.

This is unmistakenly a problem in term of either budget or planning (or both), considering they needed 7 animation directors for this episode alone (for the record, ep1-2-3-4 had 1 AD, ep5-6 had 3 and ep7 had 2). So the general animation and design consistency were pretty shaky to say the least.
On the other hand, the pacing and the general direction of the episode were good enough, so the intensity of the action was pretty much there. But it is a bit hard not to notice the quality issue (Kurama got the worst part of it with the weird gunfight against the DGSE. There was even a part were the cuts were simply static frames of the background while he was killing the first 2 agents).
There are also some inconsistent details from scenes to others. For instance, when Sousuke is shot by Kurama, a pool of blood is forming. But when the scene switch to an aerial view, the pool of blood disappeared entirely.

The music direction was also weird. While Sousuke VS Kurama was pretty good, the rest was oddly with either some mismatch BGM or plain silence. What disturbed me the most was the decision of using the insert song when Sousuke was facing Dao. I mean... Dao wasn't really an important character nor a good antagonist. So an insert song there felt like the fight was more important than it was.

But honestly, the storyboard was a complete different story, and it was definitely a major improvement compared to the previous episodes. All the cuts for Sousuke VS Kurama were on point. So yeah, the episode really got the short end of a stick when it comes to pure production value, as in term of direction and content, it was pretty good and certainly transcribed correctly the One Man Force part of the LN.

[Nivek von Beldo]

Whoever say Sosuke didn't have feeling, this chapter show how human he is

[serenade_beta]

Wait, what, Intermission 2?! It hasn't even been 1-cour and we are already at our 2nd one? What is this, Beatless?
At least do a proper episode and not this weird... thing with this... weird song... at that weird timing... with all of this weird quality... before it.
(Or maybe it makes sense)

[LG-MAX 2.o]

Good episode, no complaints.

[Mad Pierrot]

Man, when we already have credits skipping the opening, I think everybody knew already that Nami was going to get killed. The action was cool but why did they put that 1 minute insert song? It kind of reminded me to the Gundam 00 final episodes where they put a woman and kids singing.

Originally Posted by Nivek von Beldo

Whoever say Sosuke didn't have feeling, this chapter show how human he is

Yeah, but surviving to those shots is a kinda pushing it.

[Klashikari]

Random trivia, but Gatoh Shoji pretty much regrets killing Nami.
The following tweet goes like this:
"Tonight, it feels like I'm attending a wake.
Why did I kill (her) 10 years ago?"

That said, when someone asked him what he would do if he were to rewrite One Man Force script, Gatoh honestly replied he has no idea if he would let her live or still kill her.

[FlareKnight]

Well I'd say it's a given that Sousuke is human. How bad things turned out is honestly on his shoulders. This strategy to get info out of Amalgam was between insane and just stupid. If it wasn't for a military force he didn't know was out there then the entire pit crew along with himself and Nami would be dead and he still wouldn't have any information. Now sure can understand making emotional decisions because he wants to find Chidori. But the limited mess that resulted was straight up fortunate for him.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I will sound again like a party pooper, but this episode was pretty much the opposite of the other ones: the storyboard was good, pretty great in certain parts of the episode (notably the last part of Sousuke VS Kurama confrontation), but the general sakuga quality was noticeably subpar compared to the rest of the series thus far.

This is unmistakenly a problem in term of either budget or planning (or both), considering they needed 7 animation directors for this episode alone (for the record, ep1-2-3-4 had 1 AD, ep5-6 had 3 and ep7 had 2). So the general animation and design consistency were pretty shaky to say the least.
On the other hand, the pacing and the general direction of the episode were good enough, so the intensity of the action was pretty much there. But it is a bit hard not to notice the quality issue (Kurama got the worst part of it with the weird gunfight against the DGSE. There was even a part were the cuts were simply static frames of the background while he was killing the first 2 agents).
There are also some inconsistent details from scenes to others. For instance, when Sousuke is shot by Kurama, a pool of blood is forming. But when the scene switch to an aerial view, the pool of blood disappeared entirely.

I actually agree. Even though the mecha fights are hype, it's hard to not notice all the animation flaws in this episode. And the cut back to static background shot when Kurama killed the DGSE just screams "budget cutting" or "resource shortcut", kinda like the mouth-covering static scenes in Evangelion.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

What disturbed me the most was the decision of using the insert song when Sousuke was facing Dao. I mean... Dao wasn't really an important character nor a good antagonist. So an insert song there felt like the fight was more important than it was.

Maybe because the fight with Dao is the most exciting and prolonged mecha engagement in the episode where Sosuke almost lost his life right there and then before getting the upper hand. I mean, if the song needs to be there, I don't know where else they can put it. Putting it during Sosuke's bout with Kurama will only ruin the tension. Putting it when Sosuke was about ready to go with his Savage kinda eliminate the dire atmosphere too.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

But honestly, the storyboard was a complete different story, and it was definitely a major improvement compared to the previous episodes. All the cuts for Sousuke VS Kurama were on point. So yeah, the episode really got the short end of a stick when it comes to pure production value, as in term of direction and content, it was pretty good and certainly transcribed correctly the One Man Force part of the LN.

Agree again. But I also have one more grip for the episode: the way Sosuke yell "get outta my way" in the same manner in three separate occasions (instead of in direct successions) kinda turned me off a bit during the moment. It feels all sorta awkward.

You know, for the amount of available budget, I have a hard time coming up with other studio that can do better. Will Bones do better for the same amount of money provided? Sunrise is definitely out of the question, and Kyoani staff already swore to not make mecha anime ever again (probably due to the stressful work). Could A1 do better? PAW? Definitely not JC or DEEN. Maybe Gonzo or Madhouse? As much as I like Trigger and David Production, I don't think they have the fitting aesthetic sensibilities to do an FMP adaptation.

[Illsteir]

Well, I've seen a lot of chatter about people hoping Nami's cruel fate be changed in the adaptation. Consider their hopes now crushed.

Originally Posted by HunterSeeker

Spoiler:

Though the ARX-8 near the end is probably a fake one. For now.

After re-reading the epilogue of Buring One Man Force,

Spoiler for It could be it:

it is suggested that it's the real deal. However,

Spoiler for Contradicting:

assuming it's AL who's in the crate, it contradicts a certain conversation in the epilogue of Come Make My Day.

[Dash_Hunter]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

What disturbed me the most was the decision of using the insert song when Sousuke was facing Dao. I mean... Dao wasn't really an important character nor a good antagonist. So an insert song there felt like the fight was more important than it was.

Eh, I thought it was ok, it was Crossbow's last battle and that AS meant a lot to Nami, the fight was against Dao who even if he's not important in the grand scheme of things he certainly had a grudge against Nami and Sousuke after being humiliated twice.

So yeah, an insert song sung by Nami's voice actress when Sousuke is about to get killed by Dao but ultimately is saved thanks to Nami's care put into Crossbow's maintenance is not out of place IMO, it was like Nami helping Sousuke one last time, even what Sousuke says ("Nami... This mech was the best.") fits.

[germanturkey]

well that is sad. i wasn't expecting Nami's arc to end like that.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Dash_Hunter

Eh, I thought it was ok, it was Crossbow's last battle and that AS meant a lot to Nami, the fight was against Dao who even if he's not important in the grand scheme of things he certainly had a grudge against Nami and Sousuke after being humiliated twice.

So yeah, an insert song sung by Nami's voice actress when Sousuke is about to get killed by Dao but ultimately is saved thanks to Nami's care put into Crossbow's maintenance is not out of place IMO, it was like Nami helping Sousuke one last time, even what Sousuke says ("Nami... This mech was the best.") fits.

This more or less what I was gonna say. The fight with Dao was more of final send off for Nami with Sousuke symbolically using what now amounts to a memento to fight a rival of hers and the line you mentioned is what sold the idea to me too.

[dasvik]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Random trivia, but Gatoh Shoji pretty much regrets killing Nami.
The following tweet goes like this:
"Tonight, it feels like I'm attending a wake.
Why did I kill (her) 10 years ago?"

That said, when someone asked him what he would do if he were to rewrite One Man Force script, Gatoh honestly replied he has no idea if he would let her live or still kill her.

Well, killing her was more or less required, in order for Sousuke to move forward. At one point in the novels, he's contemplating staying in Namsac with her and the Crossbow crew, battling in the arena. Then, when Kurama counts, he's conflicted about going out and be captured (or more likely killed) and thus, hoping to save Nami, or if he should stay hidden to have a chance of saving Chidori. While the fact he is conflicted is normal - he was put in an impossible situation - the fact that he wanted to go out just before Kurama shot Nami, would've likely meant Chidori wouldn't be saved.

Aside from that, while it is a cruel and maybe shocking fate for Nami, it kinda fits the FMP story as a whole, and especially this darker tone it took since COMO.

[shanimebib]

The problem here is 1. that Sousuke ended up being a grim reaper for Nami. Someone might argue that she would have died at some point in the place she was treading her life but that is a separate thing. From a viewers/readers point of view, Sousuke basically appeared in her life to get her killed.

And more annoyingly, 2. that Nami falling in love with Sousuke. It was another cheap writing because getting her killed is an easy way out for the author who wanted to force emotional investment from the viewers/readers for her character. Some might argue that her death will develop Sousuke's character, but using death for character development only looks solid when a new character is not randomly thrown in the mix halfway the story just for the sake of it. If it was Chidori or Tessa, or even Kyouko, I would have rated the story a 9/10 at least. But every time something like a Nami happens in a story, I instantly downvote the storytelling. I don't see this more than a 5/10 at this point. This FMP season has been incredibly disappointing for me.

Sorry if this would hurt FMP fans but I had to say it.

[Ghostfriendly]

Nice episode. Sousuke's understated show of his considerable emotions builds up throughout. When he was thinking of Nami's death in the cockpit, the lighting on him seemed like a judgemental spotlight, as he is to blame. Surprised that the police tried fighting a mech with handguns, but they were probably there to stop Lemon's team, which would have worked out just as well for them. Couldn't help thinking of the Chief as Chief Watsup from Black Lagoon.

Kuruma really doesn't look so upset as all that after shooting Nami; his last regret about smoking really hammers home that he has no human ties at all, and feels very little about anything. A perfect foil for Sousuke in this arc.

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Well I'd say it's a given that Sousuke is human. How bad things turned out is honestly on his shoulders. This strategy to get info out of Amalgam was between insane and just stupid. If it wasn't for a military force he didn't know was out there then the entire pit crew along with himself and Nami would be dead and he still wouldn't have any information.

Sousuke survived AS fight fine, he could have let Nami and crew get killed, stayed safe, and waited for a chance to take Kuruma alive. If he cared about nothing but saving Chidori, which would make that job, after a fashion, much easier, especially as he has no Mithril allies who could guard his civilian friends. He probably wants to go back to his Kashim 'eyes of a saint' days where there was no one he cared about who needed protecting, but he can't, and doesn't want to admit it, or that Kuruma knows it. So after Nami's death he doesn't even want to take Kuruma alive any more, which would be ridiculously hard on his own under any circumstances. So I agree Sousuke was being emotional and got out through luck, but alone he would have needed a lot of luck anyway. Maybe the novel covered something like this; for the gunfight and for old times sake, I'm prepared to justify it.

[Keila]

Originally Posted by shanimebib

The problem here is 1. that Sousuke ended up being a grim reaper for Nami. Someone might argue that she would have died at some point in the place she was treading her life but that is a separate thing. From a viewers/readers point of view, Sousuke basically appeared in her life to get her killed.

And more annoyingly, 2. that Nami falling in love with Sousuke. It was another cheap writing because getting her killed is an easy way out for the author who wanted to force emotional investment from the viewers/readers for her character. Some might argue that her death will develop Sousuke's character, but using death for character development only looks solid when a new character is not randomly thrown in the mix halfway the story just for the sake of it. If it was Chidori or Tessa, or even Kyouko, I would have rated the story a 9/10 at least. But every time something like a Nami happens in a story, I instantly downvote the storytelling. I don't see this more than a 5/10 at this point. This FMP season has been incredibly disappointing for me.

Sorry if this would hurt FMP fans but I had to say it.

To be fair

• Nami was apparently hard-up for funds (hence saving Lemon and demanding funds) and more or less inevitably would have lost her next match (not helping her financial situation). Maybe if she hadn't intervene with Lemon then Rick wouldn't have died but given that they couldn't even afford the parts for the AS to get it into a satisfactory working condition it's more likely than not (if Rick was pilot) that they would have lost the match, subsequently having no funds and and even more busted AS.
• The cops (fundamentally) run the joint, everything goes as they will it to (and thus, the entire city can be considered a corrupted place).


If not for Sousuke showing up when he did

• Team is unable to compete and everyone goes their separate ways
• There is no 'happy ending' (assuming 'happy' is maintaining the status quo)


At the very least (before the last battle and subsequent death) Sousuke protected Nami's world

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Maybe because the fight with Dao is the most exciting and prolonged mecha engagement in the episode where Sosuke almost lost his life right there and then before getting the upper hand. I mean, if the song needs to be there, I don't know where else they can put it. Putting it during Sosuke's bout with Kurama will only ruin the tension. Putting it when Sosuke was about ready to go with his Savage kinda eliminate the dire atmosphere too.

Originally Posted by Dash_Hunter

Eh, I thought it was ok, it was Crossbow's last battle and that AS meant a lot to Nami, the fight was against Dao who even if he's not important in the grand scheme of things he certainly had a grudge against Nami and Sousuke after being humiliated twice.

So yeah, an insert song sung by Nami's voice actress when Sousuke is about to get killed by Dao but ultimately is saved thanks to Nami's care put into Crossbow's maintenance is not out of place IMO, it was like Nami helping Sousuke one last time, even what Sousuke says ("Nami... This mech was the best.") fits.

Originally Posted by Applehell

This more or less what I was gonna say. The fight with Dao was more of final send off for Nami with Sousuke symbolically using what now amounts to a memento to fight a rival of hers and the line you mentioned is what sold the idea to me too.

Oh, don't get me wrong, i don't expect the insert song to be better elsewhere. If anything, it would have been a much more dubious choice to use it for the final confrontation between Sousuke and Kurama.

To be more accurate, I felt the timing wasn't good because it started with Dao, instead of Sousuke fighting back.
I think the insert song timing could have been delayed a little bit, insert an earlier Nami flashback, then have the Crossbow acting in "unison" with the song, if you know what I mean.
Or alternatively, the song should have been left like this, but the early part isn't played and only start when Sousuke operate Crossbow right arm.

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Random trivia, but Gatoh Shoji pretty much regrets killing Nami.
The following tweet goes like this:
"Tonight, it feels like I'm attending a wake.
Why did I kill (her) 10 years ago?"

That said, when someone asked him what he would do if he were to rewrite One Man Force script, Gatoh honestly replied he has no idea if he would let her live or still kill her.

Well he certainly didn't change it for this episode. Though I'm not sure if the director and producers would have been willing to risk such a big change from the source material.