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synaesthetic · 2012-03-31, 00:01

The other problem with Democrats are they've become too complacent. They know a lot of us will vote for them simply because the Republicans scare the shit out of us. As a result, they get lazy and don't work hard to retain our support, because we have only one other option--move to Mars.

Progressives are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The Democrats aren't serving our interests anymore, and the Republicans are quite simply terrifying. All we can do is keep voting Democrats in--or like many of us do, refuse to vote at all.

The system is rigged, so why bother? The bad guys from either party get in office regardless of what we do. I don't even see a reason to go to the polls--all of California's electoral votes will go to Obama no matter what I do. It's pointless to even waste the time standing in line all day--even if my vote actually counted for anything, who else would I vote for?

Demongod86 · 2012-03-31, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xagzan

Speaking of gaffes

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/3...ma-the-n-word/

Honestly, I don't what other word he expects us to believe he was about to say. What the hell other word starts with "nig" that you apply to Obama? Well, this is why I never believe the die hard denialists that racism no longer exists or is even prominent in many people's hatred of Obama. Then again, it's not like Frothy has had the best track record when it comes to blah people.

Negotiator?

Sugetsu · 2012-03-31, 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

The other problem with Democrats are they've become too complacent. They know a lot of us will vote for them simply because the Republicans scare the shit out of us. As a result, they get lazy and don't work hard to retain our support, because we have only one other option--move to Mars.

Progressives are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The Democrats aren't serving our interests anymore, and the Republicans are quite simply terrifying. All we can do is keep voting Democrats in--or like many of us do, refuse to vote at all.

The system is rigged, so why bother? The bad guys from either party get in office regardless of what we do. I don't even see a reason to go to the polls--all of California's electoral votes will go to Obama no matter what I do. It's pointless to even waste the time standing in line all day--even if my vote actually counted for anything, who else would I vote for?

Unfortunately, the less enthusiastic people become about voting the easier it is for more fringe candidates to get elected. This is exactly what happened in 2010 when the tea party took hold of the house; there was such a low turn out by democrats and independents that there was no one standing between the energized tea party loons and the House of Representatives. Hell, they almost got the senate too were it not for some crazy senate candidates that were even too crazy for the far right.

What is scary right now is that if you add up the enthusiasm gap plus the voter suppression tactics that are going on in many states across the country, including key states, such as Florida, Romney might actually end up giving Obama a run for his money. To make matters even worse, if the health care mandate is struck down then that could well end up being the end of the Obama presidency.

Vexx · 2012-03-31, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Sometimes I almost welcome total financial collapse of the global economy. If the dollar were to become as worthless as toilet paper, what I will lose will be effectively nothing, yet the "ruling elite" will be brought down to the same level as everyone else.

And they better hope they bought a lot of bullets beforehand, because the people will be looking for those responsible for the collapse...

The running gag with my relatives (left, right, up, down, whatever) is that bullets are the only *real* currency... screw the gold standard, gold bars are too hard to throw

0utf0xZer0 · 2012-03-31, 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

The running gag with my relatives (left, right, up, down, whatever) is that bullets are the only *real* currency... screw the gold standard, gold bars are too hard to throw

IIRC, bullets are used as currency in the computer game Metro 2033...

Anh_Minh · 2012-03-31, 01:17

I wonder if people would think twice before shooting somebody if they paid their groceries with bullets?

Vexx · 2012-03-31, 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I wonder if people would think twice before shooting somebody if they paid their groceries with bullets?

I'm thinking of an old Yosemite Sam Cartoon where he keeps firing and recovering a single bullet. Quote, "Its been in the family for generations."

Zetsubo · 2012-03-31, 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ledgem

What would you have to give up to treat others with respect, hear them out when they present a conflicting opinion, and give it some honest thought?

You would have to re examine or give up your blind belief that your way of life, your religion, your language, your values, your world views, are the best.

Many of the "You are rights" will be converted to "You are wrongs" or "I don't knows" ... This is an uncomfortable and tall leap for many people.

Saying: "I don't know". Saying: "I could be wrong" (without the "but") hurts the mind and feelings of many.

It is a questioning of self that many people are not comfortable with.

Then there is the questioning of "cherished authority figures": You would be forced to re-think the things that your grand pappy taught you about those damn Jews. You may be forced to question grand pappy's wisdom.

You would have to give up the ideology that your way, inherited from grand pappy, is possibly not the best way.

Then you would have to go further still and you would have to accept the idea that you may be wrong even in the method of worship or worse the GOD you worship, which is a heart breaking jump for many.

Simply put: "I may be misinformed or wrong." ... is not something many people want to enter into their mind. Look at how the Church treated Galileo even tho the evidence was right in their face. In modern times this has changed to : "Fossils are a trick of the devil".

I wonder if this is why scientists are disliked ?

Zetsubo · 2012-03-31, 08:39

The Fox is a cunning creature but Dogs are intelligent.

That is a primary school sentence that always pickled my brain.

Why is the Fox cunning and the Dog intelligent.

whats the difference ?

The difference is one animal is liked and the other is not.

Applied to humans:

Example 1:

The Chinese are cunning but the Japanese are intelligent.

Example 2:
The Jews and Muslims are cunning and conniving but the Buddhists and Hindus are intelligent and enlightened.

Just the way we use words exposes our bias.

The 100 Meter track and field event is dominated by black sprinters... white sprinters haven't had very much luck and so you see comments like:

"Its because of nigger genetics and running from lions in Africa or cops in the USA"

If however, the sport were dominated by whites, the argument would change to: "Its because the white athletes train properly and are disciplined. Black athletes lack discipline"

Apply this to politics and you may get a sentence like ...

Obama is a cunning, conniving nig... uhhh ahh ammm, anti war person.

Instead of (for example)

"Obama is an intelligent and brilliant strategist who is an anti war advocate."

Certain peoples seem to reject the notion that someone different from their ethnic and social group is just as capable as they are or possibly better than they are.

(In NAZI Germany E=MC^2 was called dirty Jewish science)

And then that person breaks the mold and threaten the status quo they panic and sink into depressive hateful thoughts that are nothing more than hugging the teddy bear in the corner slowly rocking back and forth muttering quietly: "My race is superior, my race is superior, my race is superior, yes gran pappy was always right all along, they aren't as smart as you are, my race is superior, my race is superior."

Ledgem · 2012-03-31, 09:11

Language is indeed a powerful tool:

Xagzan · 2012-03-31, 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

The other problem with Democrats are they've become too complacent. They know a lot of us will vote for them simply because the Republicans scare the shit out of us. As a result, they get lazy and don't work hard to retain our support, because we have only one other option--move to Mars.

Progressives are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The Democrats aren't serving our interests anymore, and the Republicans are quite simply terrifying. All we can do is keep voting Democrats in--or like many of us do, refuse to vote at all.

The system is rigged, so why bother? The bad guys from either party get in office regardless of what we do. I don't even see a reason to go to the polls--all of California's electoral votes will go to Obama no matter what I do. It's pointless to even waste the time standing in line all day--even if my vote actually counted for anything, who else would I vote for?

But syn, your vote does count, just not in a direct, national election way. And frankly, the thought of another 2010 GOP sweep is enough of a nightmare to me to ensure that I'll do what miniscule amount I can (that is, voting), to prevent it from happening again. Even if you're in a pretty solidly blue state like CA, it's better to be safe than sorry, I always say.

The Dems may be corrupt toads, but at least they haven't waged outright war on any groups that aren't in the top 1%. Call it a case of depressingly lowered standards on my part, but nowadays, that counts for something with me.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2012-03-31, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xagzan

But syn, your vote does count, just not in a direct, national election way. And frankly, the thought of another 2010 GOP sweep is enough of a nightmare to me to ensure that I'll do what miniscule amount I can (that is, voting), to prevent it from happening again. Even if you're in a pretty solidly blue state like CA, it's better to be safe than sorry, I always say.

The Dems may be corrupt toads, but at least they haven't waged outright war on any groups that aren't in the top 1%. Call it a case of depressingly lowered standards on my part, but nowadays, that counts for something with me.

Yeah. And by not voting you lose your right to voice your opinion.

I always find it bizarre, that there are those who genuinely believe their votes only matter if they get to cast the final deciding vote.

That's not democracy. Democracy is the combined decision of the citizenry. There will always be a choice. The only way to lose is not to choose.

Zetsubo · 2012-03-31, 10:35

Since the beginning of democracy: It has been the desire of those who wish to rule, without question or limitation, to limit the number of "ordinary/undesirable" voters.

In the past of many democratic nations, only a certain class or ethnicity could vote.

Black people could not vote.
Those who did not know their father or were born out of wedlock could not vote.
Women could not vote.
Those who did not own land could not vote.
Those who could not read could not vote.

This was to control the direction of the vote.

To control the risk of the power of the mass from overwhelming the ballot box, not necessarily in the favor of the minority elite.

These restrictions limits the collective power of all the people in the nation by reducing the work the political elite has to do to gain the favor of this powerful mass.

The aim is to limit the pressure especially the financial pressure on the person seeking office, and to ensure that "only the right people" get into office.

For in a democracy, if the mass decide to elect Snooki into office, nothing can stop them. And nothing should.

A people deserve the leader they choose.

<mad idea>

Perhaps because such selective voter control is unconstitutional a new plan was developed.

Instead of limiting by race, class and gender, they wish to make the ordinary/undesirable voters develop a dislike for voting. They want only the votes of the desirable or party loyal.

This will ensure that a specific group/party remains in power regardless of its minority in terms of population size.

The "righteous, proper values and attitudes few" want to remain in power desperately.

I suspect the GOP and their friends fear becoming a minority (the same way South African whites created Apartheid because of fear that majorityblacks will swing interest their way)

They fear the DEMS because the DEMS collect all the "heathen votes" and the "heathen votes will sway things in ways that are "Un-American"

And the heathen have begun to out number the righteous... so what do you do ?

It is a problem for the powerful that the vote, of the smart, lesbian kid in college who likes to ask questions and doesn't believe in war and god, counts.

These heathen numbers, the numbers of those who put Obama in office, must be reduced on election day.

They are a threat.

Thus you obstruct the person they put in power and you make them feel disillusioned and develop a dislike for voting. Make them feel it is hopeless that the rich will always win.

Only then can this "free thinking, racially, sexually, religiously, heathen horde" be controlled.

Then you will never again see the "travesty of a nig.. uhh ahhh ... sweet talking intellectual" in the white house.

If this is the plan of the GOP... it is most despicable.

I feel that to obstruct a party so that they fail is undemocratic.

Perhaps treasonous.

Let the DEMS fail on their own. Do not help them to fail.

In fact I believe in the unthinkable that each party should help each other to succeed ... because it will keep the United States to succeed.

That way you can even limit the term of the president to 1 ... and keep things fresh ... for the sake of the nation.

Mr. DJ · 2012-03-31, 12:54

I don't think they need to help each other succeed as much as prove why they're better on their own merits w/out resorting to twisted truths and outright lies.

but...to make use of a Ralph Wiggum quote..."That's unpossible."

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2012-03-31, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

I don't think they need to help each other succeed as much as prove why they're better on their own merits w/out resorting to twisted truths and outright lies.

but...to make use of a Ralph Wiggum quote..."That's unpossible."

People who believe their lies, vote. People who don't believe their lies, don't vote. Thus lying is encouraged.

One needs to be punished for lying, of they will never stop.

Zetsubo · 2012-03-31, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

People who believe their lies, vote. People who don't believe their lies, don't vote. Thus lying is encouraged.

One needs to be punished for lying, of they will never stop.

Exactly: This lying, makes tends to make the more enlightened voter not vote.

It is a weakness of the enlightened voter.

All people have a weaknesses.

For the enlightened voter the weakness of not voting because of disgust and distrust is being exploited.

A brilliant but possibly accidental technique to keep out the unwanted political pressure to truthfully perform to and for the best of ALL the people in the nation.

I could be wrong tho...

SaintessHeart · 2012-03-31, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

I'm thinking of an old Yosemite Sam Cartoon where he keeps firing and recovering a single bullet. Quote, "Its been in the family for generations."

By digging it out of the person and loading it in a new cartridge and primer?

Anh_Minh · 2012-03-31, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Since the beginning of democracy: It has been the desire of those who wish to rule, without question or limitation, to limit the number of "ordinary/undesirable" voters.

It's not democracy. Everyone always wants to grab power for himself, and by extension, keep others from grabbing it.

Sometimes you're in position to be an absolute monarch, so you go for that, but even then, you have to trust your bodyguard won't stab you in the back. Some times, you're an aristocrat, and you ally with other aristocrats to limit the peasants below and the king above. Or maybe the king allies with some of the aristocrats against the other aristocrats... You can have all kinds of configuration, but the basic motivations of each player are the same.

Democracy is just the result of an alliance of most of the peasants and bourgeoisie against the nobility and royalty. And I guess that with this POV, the present situation is the plutocrats allying with (or suckering) some of that peasantry against the rest.

Xellos-_^ · 2012-03-31, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

One needs to be punished for lying, of they will never stop.

you can't legislate human nature.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2012-03-31, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

you can't legislate human nature.

Who said anything about legislating anything?

Human nature dictates if doing something gets us punished, we stop doing it. Voters punish politicians by voting against the biggest liars. They might all lie, but some lie more than others.

Punish liars. It works.

Because if you don't... The politicians will just lie on public television. Like they do right now.

2012-03-31, 00:01	Link #3821
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	The other problem with Democrats are they've become too complacent. They know a lot of us will vote for them simply because the Republicans scare the shit out of us. As a result, they get lazy and don't work hard to retain our support, because we have only one other option--move to Mars. Progressives are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The Democrats aren't serving our interests anymore, and the Republicans are quite simply terrifying. All we can do is keep voting Democrats in--or like many of us do, refuse to vote at all. The system is rigged, so why bother? The bad guys from either party get in office regardless of what we do. I don't even see a reason to go to the polls--all of California's electoral votes will go to Obama no matter what I do. It's pointless to even waste the time standing in line all day--even if my vote actually counted for anything, who else would I vote for? __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2012-03-31, 09:11	Link #3830
Ledgem Love Yourself Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Northeast USA Age: 38	Language is indeed a powerful tool: __________________

2012-03-31, 10:35	Link #3833
Zetsubo 著述遮断 Join Date: Jul 2009	Since the beginning of democracy: It has been the desire of those who wish to rule, without question or limitation, to limit the number of "ordinary/undesirable" voters. In the past of many democratic nations, only a certain class or ethnicity could vote. Black people could not vote. Those who did not know their father or were born out of wedlock could not vote. Women could not vote. Those who did not own land could not vote. Those who could not read could not vote. This was to control the direction of the vote. To control the risk of the power of the mass from overwhelming the ballot box, not necessarily in the favor of the minority elite. These restrictions limits the collective power of all the people in the nation by reducing the work the political elite has to do to gain the favor of this powerful mass. The aim is to limit the pressure especially the financial pressure on the person seeking office, and to ensure that "only the right people" get into office. For in a democracy, if the mass decide to elect Snooki into office, nothing can stop them. And nothing should. A people deserve the leader they choose. <mad idea> Perhaps because such selective voter control is unconstitutional a new plan was developed. Instead of limiting by race, class and gender, they wish to make the ordinary/undesirable voters develop a dislike for voting. They want only the votes of the desirable or party loyal. This will ensure that a specific group/party remains in power regardless of its minority in terms of population size. The "righteous, proper values and attitudes few" want to remain in power desperately. I suspect the GOP and their friends fear becoming a minority (the same way South African whites created Apartheid because of fear that majorityblacks will swing interest their way) They fear the DEMS because the DEMS collect all the "heathen votes" and the "heathen votes will sway things in ways that are "Un-American" And the heathen have begun to out number the righteous... so what do you do ? It is a problem for the powerful that the vote, of the smart, lesbian kid in college who likes to ask questions and doesn't believe in war and god, counts. These heathen numbers, the numbers of those who put Obama in office, must be reduced on election day. They are a threat. Thus you obstruct the person they put in power and you make them feel disillusioned and develop a dislike for voting. Make them feel it is hopeless that the rich will always win. Only then can this "free thinking, racially, sexually, religiously, heathen horde" be controlled. Then you will never again see the "travesty of a nig.. uhh ahhh ... sweet talking intellectual" in the white house. If this is the plan of the GOP... it is most despicable. I feel that to obstruct a party so that they fail is undemocratic. Perhaps treasonous. Let the DEMS fail on their own. Do not help them to fail. In fact I believe in the unthinkable that each party should help each other to succeed ... because it will keep the United States to succeed. That way you can even limit the term of the president to 1 ... and keep things fresh ... for the sake of the nation. Last edited by Zetsubo; 2012-03-31 at 10:51.

2012-03-31, 01:17	Link #3826
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	I wonder if people would think twice before shooting somebody if they paid their groceries with bullets?

2012-03-31, 08:39	Link #3829
Zetsubo 著述遮断 Join Date: Jul 2009	The Fox is a cunning creature but Dogs are intelligent. That is a primary school sentence that always pickled my brain. Why is the Fox cunning and the Dog intelligent. whats the difference ? The difference is one animal is liked and the other is not. Applied to humans: Example 1: The Chinese are cunning but the Japanese are intelligent. Example 2: The Jews and Muslims are cunning and conniving but the Buddhists and Hindus are intelligent and enlightened. Just the way we use words exposes our bias. The 100 Meter track and field event is dominated by black sprinters... white sprinters haven't had very much luck and so you see comments like: "Its because of nigger genetics and running from lions in Africa or cops in the USA" If however, the sport were dominated by whites, the argument would change to: "Its because the white athletes train properly and are disciplined. Black athletes lack discipline" Apply this to politics and you may get a sentence like ... Obama is a cunning, conniving nig... uhhh ahh ammm, anti war person. Instead of (for example) "Obama is an intelligent and brilliant strategist who is an anti war advocate." Certain peoples seem to reject the notion that someone different from their ethnic and social group is just as capable as they are or possibly better than they are. (In NAZI Germany E=MC^2 was called dirty Jewish science) And then that person breaks the mold and threaten the status quo they panic and sink into depressive hateful thoughts that are nothing more than hugging the teddy bear in the corner slowly rocking back and forth muttering quietly: "My race is superior, my race is superior, my race is superior, yes gran pappy was always right all along, they aren't as smart as you are, my race is superior, my race is superior."

2012-03-31, 12:54	Link #3834
Mr. DJ Schwing! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Central Texas Age: 39	I don't think they need to help each other succeed as much as prove why they're better on their own merits w/out resorting to twisted truths and outright lies. but...to make use of a Ralph Wiggum quote..."That's unpossible."