2012-07-10, 02:02 | Link #41 |
The Voice of Reason
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Age: 47
|
Going by the definition of shows I never expected to be as good as I found them to be, I'd say:
Madoka Magica – When I heard about it being made, I only hoped that SHAFT could deliver me a Magical Girl show that wouldn't disappoint me, given how I got pretty tired of the genre at the time. When I watched the first episode, I thought it looked good, and had the typical weirdness I expected from a SHAFT work. it wasn't till much later on that the show really hooked me in, especially when fan speculation kicked into high gear. At the very least, episode 3 showed me that this wouldn't be your average, cookie-cutter Magical Girl show I've come to expect, but that it would be something much more serious. Steins;Gate – I went in, expecting a typical sci-fi show and till about halfway through the series, I still didn't really think it was brilliant. Sure, it looked good, had likable characters and such, but when the show took a far more sinister tone, I knew this would be something I hadn't seen before. Dusk maiden of Amnesia is a borderline case. Though I thought it was excellent, I already had high hopes for it before I started. I think it's because it has a similar element the aforementioned shows have: a somewhat laid-back, or even humorous surface, but underneath lurks a serious issue that becomes focal point halfway through, and it raised my expectations accordingly. There are probably others, but these three stand out the most for me right now. A lot of other shows I rated as high as these were great because of other reasons, and I wouldn't really call them masterpieces, just shows I really, really liked (like K-ON!! or Haiyore! Nyaruko-san). Note that I don't call these shows 'perfect' (because I believe there is no such thing), but (to me) they are as close to perfect as humanly possible. There is usually at least one element I don't like (usually one or two characters), but if the sheer enjoyment I get from the show can make up for them, a show (despite its flaws) could still be a masterpiece to me.
__________________
|
2012-07-10, 05:00 | Link #42 | |
( ಠ_ಠ)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
|
Quote:
Only things I would do to you for disagreeing with me consist of beheading, spitting at the headless corpse, and decorating the yard with the said severed head on a pike. Utterly reasonable and objective. Jokes aside, any discussion of undefined perception of quality is going to be subjective.
__________________
|
|
2012-07-10, 07:36 | Link #43 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
|
For me a masterpiece is a defining and recognizable work of an artist(s) that establishes/recognizes his or her status as a master of the profession.
In case of an anime this definition makes certain demands: - The anime needs a particular style in art, animation,writing and/or directing that can be linked to a particular creator or group of creators (i.e. studio). -The creator him or herself is already an established name or has become one after this work. - The anime itself needs to be regarded as a quality work*. - The anime needs to stand out amongst the other works of this creator. *Anime are (usually) collaborative efforts sometimes elements can be considered masterpieces of for example animation, art or screenwriting. This however does not make the anime as a whole a masterpiece. |
2012-07-10, 08:30 | Link #44 | |
Banned
|
Quote:
I'd expand upon one of my previous criteria, that a series/film must have a story that has a broad-based appeal; that is, it must be a story that everyone can recognize and relate to. Thus, things like Nanoha and Madoka wouldn't be masterpieces, since their narratives are generally confined to a specific genre. As I said before, relative "goodness" isn't the basis for whether something is a masterpiece. And one can only tell if a story gets that broad-based relation over enough time. So anything recent, even within the past 5 years, probably wouldn't qualify just yet anyway. |
|
2012-07-10, 08:59 | Link #45 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
|
Quote:
I can't think of an anime example on the top of my head, but in literature "Gone with the wind" is most certainly a masterpiece of american narrative, but it really came out of nowhere. I'm sure you all heard about it or you've read it or you've seen the movie adaption, but how many of you can name the author? And how many of you can name any other work done by her? (without looking in the internet, cheater!) Sure being an established name helps, but it is entirely possible for someone to create his masterpiece with his very first published work and then failing to do anything even remotely as good.
__________________
|
|
2012-07-10, 09:25 | Link #46 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
|
Quote:
Quote:
For me it's therefore linked to a creators body of work, to prove he or she is a master of the craft, as mastery implicitly assumes repeatability. That sets it apart from a once in a lifetime achievement that is never repeated. That does not mean that a single success cannot be equal or better than a masterpiece. |
||
2012-07-10, 09:31 | Link #47 |
Snr Spammer
Join Date: Sep 2006
|
Oh My Goddess OVA
One of my fav, a nice little love/comedy story Air Top music and story, not too many anime that made me cry Full Metal Alchemist Overall quite good Evagelion One of the best original masterpieces Last Exile Other original series thats my pick for masterpieces, series that doesn't rely on "fanservice" but a solid plot/story, music and artwork all in one |
2012-07-10, 21:07 | Link #48 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
|
I've watched a lot of animes in my 17 years(I think lol) in this hobby but right now the only anime that comes to my mind that I can confidently rank as a masterpiece would be Madoka Magica and to some extent Gankutsuou.
For Madoka Magica... I am simply amazed at how carefully and well crafted the whole series is. The overall direction(music, battles, scenes) of the series seems perfect. In my opinion the only downside Madoka had were the Meduka moments and even then the overall animation quality of Madoka is still a beauty. And well not only did Madoka Magica achieve excellence in terms of technical and directional aspects the story itself was very good and something I liked very much. I find Gankutsuou to be similar in those points... Overall i found it's animation and overall direction to be quite excellent. The story... well... it is an adaptation of The Count of Monte Cristo... although there were quite a lot of liberal changes I still enjoyed it a whole lot. Edit: raaage stupid ipad deleted my post... Anyway... Keeping it short... I think a lot of people here are mistaking classics for a masterpiece. I find it ridiculous how Madoka Magica despite all the honors and awards it won and all the critical praise it receives cannot be considered as a masterpiece just because it is 1 year old? I mean hey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece
__________________
Last edited by MartianMage; 2012-07-10 at 23:49. |
2012-07-11, 01:52 | Link #49 |
On a mission
Author
|
For all of its wonkiness, I would say Evangelion was a great anime. But the masterpiece point comes with End of Evangelion, which helps resolve the loose ends of the tv end in a rather umm, explosive conclusion. It really has its all-- A stirring soundtrack that slowly but surely gives off a sense of impending doom, visuals that could rival anime today, and the most fucked up imagery involving a sick, sick mind. And contrary to popular thought, it was not all bullshit, sans the religious stuff.
But this isn't really why I could claim it's a masterpiece. What's the point of writing, saying, or even thinking anything? To communicate an idea or an emotion to an audience. The audience can be just yourself, or it could be the whole world. But with EoE, all these ideas and emotions just came spilling out. Anno's depression and frustration with the nature of the otaku lifestyle could really be felt, and the concept of "running away" became much clearer (using entertainment to escape reality). It was really a message to the very fandom that supported him, and it wasn't a "fuck you" either. And honestly, it's one that's easily misinterpreted too. To transmit these ideas in such a strong and clear fashion-- I think I could call it that.
__________________
|
2012-07-11, 08:01 | Link #50 |
Sekiroad-Idols Sing Twice
|
Time of Eve is an ONA that deals with the pseudo-scientific question of what would happen if robots were more like people. What it lacks in the originality of its idea is more than made up for by excellently written characters. Actually, I'm not even sure if characters is the proper word to describe anyone because they're realistic to the point where calling them people is more accurate. This believability helps with the robots in the series because you'll never know who is human and who isn't until they tell you. And truly, if you don't know, there's no difference. It's short, sweet, and provocative.
__________________
|
2012-07-11, 08:51 | Link #51 |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
|
I am inclined to agree. Even as someone who is not a fan of One Piece, I acknowledge its broad appeal, creative energy (Oda just never seems to tire) and even the enthusiasm from the anime staff is contagious to affect first time viewers or people who have not been much into anime. Its messages may never be as complex as some, but they are simple and strong enough to reach up to anyone.
__________________
|
2012-07-11, 13:20 | Link #53 | |||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
|
Quote:
No, you don't get to make a "masterpiece", simply because that's not your call. The decisive judgment comes instead from your professional peers — and your ever fickle audience. Quote:
Quote:
Though it may seem like mere semantics, I find it helpful to distinguish between "milestone" or "landmark" anime and the so-called "masterpieces". Anime like Astro Boy, Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Princess Mononoke and Neon Genesis Evangelion were all important "landmark" productions, because they left an indelible imprint on the minds of creators and audiences alike, significantly influencing the way all later anime were conceptualised and produced. Even with such a definition, I hesitate to call Cowboy Bepop a "landmark" production. The series made an impact, true, but mainly on overseas audiences, particularly those in the West. Within Japan, it's arguable if the Japanese consider Cowboy Bepop that special, if at all. As for "masterpieces", let's be brutally frank: Most anime feature far too awful animation to be truly considered masterpieces on a technical level, regardless of the anime's popularity. It's not an issue of differences in style — any student of animation, let alone a professional, can easily point out the many shortcuts used in anime to cut costs. The anime industry may have made a virtue out of necessity — in the process creating an aesthetic that is uniquely their own — but that doesn't make the technical deficiencies of its products any less glaring. There is an important reason that Hayao Miyazaki is so greatly revered as a master animator: He has not just established a style that is recognisably his own (to the extent that "Ghibli" becomes almost synonymous with top-quality animation), but is also one of the few Japanese animators capable of expressing weight and movement through hand-drawn art alone. So long as the anime sector remains essentially a cash-strapped cottage industry in its native land, the chances of a "masterpiece" appearing in the next few years will remain close to zero. The breadth and depth of the stories themselves are there — to be sure, it's the complex and innovative subject matter that draws so many of us to anime — but, to me, they are mostly prevented from achieving truly universal, iconic status, because of practical, real-world limitations. |
|||
2012-07-11, 16:33 | Link #55 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
|
Quote:
Limited animation is a defining characteristic of anime, even Ghibli can't match Disney on animation quality. On the other hand, it's rare that a Disney story has much artistic merit. With such a strict definition no animation except maybe Fantasia or Spirited Away could qualify as a masterpiece. |
|
2012-07-11, 18:18 | Link #57 | ||
Banned
|
Quote:
Quote:
One reason I brought up Mai Hime as a masterpiece, is that the subtle things reinforce and reflect the main themes. Sometimes you don't even notice them. To illustrate the point, Mai Hime has a song sung in English called "It's Only The Fairy Tale." Spoiler for Mai Hime spoilers:
That's skill; the twisting of various audio/visual aspects to reinforce and enhance a scene, as well as subtly foreshadow what is to come. Certain shows like Madoka and Evangelion certainly did things differently, to the MG and Mecha genres respectively. As such, they might be referred to as "landmark" series as someone mentioned above. They are useful to chart where a certain genre has taken a turn. Just like Sailor Moon is a landmark for the turn it gave the MG genre, but yet is not a masterpiece, either. But populism can't be a useful metric to determine a masterpiece, otherwise you'd have to award one to Twilight. :P |
||
2012-07-11, 19:09 | Link #58 | |||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
There shouldn't even be such a need to compare. Rather, it's more a matter of judging an artist by his body of work, and picking out the pieces that best mark the pinnacle of his craft. That is less controversial, though no less dependent on subjective judgment. Michaelango has his ceiling mural for the Sistine Chapel, for example. Leonardo has the Mona Lisa. Shakespeare has The Tempest. Beethoven has his Ninth Symphony. These works of art are universally acclaimed masterpieces. Some may have different opinions but, by and large, most would agree that they are among the most representative pieces for the respective artists. |
|||
2012-07-11, 19:29 | Link #59 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
|
Quote:
Evangelion is a different beast altogether though. While deeply flawed, it altered the very nature of the industry, revolutionized animated characterization and storytelling. It confronted creators how they went about their trade. Still controversial and discussed to this day, only one word comes to my mind to describe it: art. |
|
2012-07-11, 20:07 | Link #60 | |
Sekiroad-Idols Sing Twice
|
Quote:
It goes back to being an accident again regardless of whether or not it was the author's intention. Huh.
__________________
|
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|