AnimeSuki Forums

00-Raiser · 2011-12-31, 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Oh no, I have problems with the character trait of a fictional trait. I'm so mean.

Well when the crux of your issue is "he's not doing what I would do"...

Justin_Brett · 2011-12-31, 17:23

What I would do is probably what most people would do.

And your argument is that he's just that nice of a guy and I shouldn't question it at all. I accepted it with Nanoha because she's a well-rounded, likable character. Touma is not.

Keroko · 2011-12-31, 17:48

*shrug* Well, you asked for a reason, and we gave a few. Whether you like those reasons or not is up to you, but they are still reasons.

Nanya01 · 2011-12-31, 17:52

Are the only arguments about Force the following?

"The Hucks are pure evil!"/"No they're not, they're evil, but they have a reason to be evil."

"Force copies too much from A's."/"Force is way to different from A's to be liked."

"The main character sucks because he's not the old cast!"/"We need some world building."

"This is too dark!"/"No it's not!"

"Touma's an idiot and not likeable!"/"He's doing what he thinks is right!"

"Signum/Hayate got stabbed!"

Because we've heard these arguments for a LONG time now, and honestly, it's tiring and repetitive.

Akiyoshi · 2011-12-31, 19:15

^ to be fair it's also because so far the manga only revolves around those aspects. So, part of the blame is of Tsuzuki himself xDU.

The manga currently is developing into "The Huckebien have reasons" and "Tohma is doing what he thinks is right" part of the arguments. To be fair to Force, the similitudes with A's were mainly within the first half and from Ch. 19 onwards it started to look somewhat different plotwise(the similitudes between the "new weapons" stuff and Huckebein/Yagami-ke are still there, tough). The complaints about Hayate and Signum are only claims from butthurt fanboys like me.

About the level of "Darkness" we can argue for centories about if it's too dark or isn't but i think we can agree is definetely darker than A's and StrikerS. Jail's evil schemes doesn't hold a candle against what Curren and Mr. Vandin are cooking here.

LostSome · 2011-12-31, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Are the only arguments about Force the following?

"The Hucks are pure evil!"/"No they're not, they're evil, but they have a reason to be evil."

"Force copies too much from A's."/"Force is way to different from A's to be liked."

"The main character sucks because he's not the old cast!"/"We need some world building."

"This is too dark!"/"No it's not!"

"Touma's an idiot and not likeable!"/"He's doing what he thinks is right!"

"Signum/Hayate got stabbed!"

Because we've heard these arguments for a LONG time now, and honestly, it's tiring and repetitive.

For only 20 chapters, that is actually a lot !

I haven`t laugh at the Raptors in a while...

I don`t get where Justin gets his idea that Thoma is the perfect logic guy...
Seriously, the guy is a walking emo bomb.

"I know I`m being illogical, but it`s no use... It`s what my heart desires."
If Thoma pulls that one I`ll be afraid... Very afraid !

Akiyoshi · 2011-12-31, 19:39

I guess part of why i can withstand Tohma's tendencies are because i've dealed with much worse emo-bombs in the past. Sure, the kid is unstable and kind of an emo bomb but he's nowhere close to the likes of Shinji Ikari xDU

ZeroIchiNi · 2011-12-31, 19:40

Don't forget that people have to go thought a whole year before that battle ended.

Justin_Brett · 2011-12-31, 19:41

Quote:

*shrug* Well, you asked for a reason, and we gave a few. Whether you like those reasons or not is up to you, but they are still reasons.

No, I didn't, since Raiser basically said 'because' when I asked 'why'.

Quote:

I don`t get where Justin gets his idea that Thoma is the perfect logic guy...
Seriously, the guy is a walking emo bomb.

Eh, that's an exaggeration. It wouldn't have been as noticeable if not for Hayate hadn't gotten over the same thing in As much quicker.

Akiyoshi · 2011-12-31, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroIchiNi

Don't forget that people have to go thought a whole year before that battle ended.

Boy i remember o_o! But to be fair Tohma as a character has very few to do with that, so again, my beef is not with Tohma, it's with the way his character was handled in the first half. If G.O.D.'s story and the recent chapters are any indication, Tohma's true developement is finally starting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

No, I didn't, since Raiser basically said 'because' when I asked 'why'.

I agree, i understand his statement but even if we in fact complain about dissapointement on our expectations, it's still a valid complaint. After all, generating expectative is one of the main objectives of a selling story. So i think is perfectly normal for fans to generate their own ideas about what's gonna happen and comment on the compared results.

00-Raiser · 2011-12-31, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

No, I didn't, since Raiser basically said 'because' when I asked 'why'.

'Because' is a perfectly valid reason for being nice to some one.

LostSome · 2011-12-31, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Eh, that's an exaggeration. It wouldn't have been as noticeable if not for Hayate hadn't gotten over the same thing in As much quicker.

What is the exaggeration ? The logic guy or the emo bomb ?
But, your whole point was that his indecision was illogical and stupid.
Still, you can also blame TSAB for two months of realizing but doing nothing too.
Like I said before : Where are those TSAB shrinks ?! That boy needs one ! BADLY !

Justin_Brett · 2011-12-31, 20:04

That's actually a good point, if they're thinking of sending him into an enemy camp as a spy. All kinds of bad stuff can happen mentally there from what I've heard.

Quote:

'Because' is a perfectly valid reason for being nice to some one.

Okay now you're just intentionally ignoring the context of this argument.

Keroko · 2011-12-31, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

No, I didn't, since Raiser basically said 'because' when I asked 'why'.

Hmm? I'm still pretty much replying to this post. I thought you asked for a reason here.

00-Raiser · 2011-12-31, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Okay now you're just intentionally ignoring the context of this argument.

No, it's the same regardless. Even if Christopher Columbus himself was hanging off a cliff some one would try to save him simply because it's the right thing to do.

Justin_Brett · 2011-12-31, 21:50

Yeah, and just because, which is what I've been seeing to that, is a bad one.

And yeah they would, because Christopher Colombus has redeeming qualities most people would know about. The only kindness the Hucks showed Touma was arbitrary and conditional. If they had been nice to him without knowing he was an infected, sure. But they didn't. As far as I'm concerned him wanting to redeem them is just so the plot can move forward.

rxrx · 2011-12-31, 22:31

Christopher Colombus has redeeming qualities? That guy sell people into slavary and began Imperialism which screwed many people around the world and its after effects still messed up the world as it is. Why is it that people sees the TSAB as the 'good' guys while they are just another bunch of a form of government that have both good and bad people in it and might just be the culprit again as they want better weapons to fight but the experiment screwed up and led to the uncontrollbale virus. The USA government have also used people from the third world for scientific experiments and when that screwed them over, did not even give a sorry.

Justin_Brett · 2011-12-31, 23:03

Well, off-topic, but judging a lot of those explorers by today's standards and perspective is a little unfair. Magellan, for example, seems like kind of a moron for trying to fight people who outnumbered him several times just because they were natives, but hey, hindsight.

00-Raiser · 2011-12-31, 23:07

I used Collumbus instead of the usual fall back of Hitler. Hitler may have caused the deaths of 6 million Jews, but Collumbus caused the deaths of around 100 million Native Americans.

The point is Thoma is a good kid. Regardless of the Huck's past deeds he would still want to save them.

On the topic of Thoma being an infiltrator recall that I didn't mention him joining the organization as a whole, but merely going to that meeting. Curren did invite him and surely she knows that the Bureau will want ears there. If the Bureau is smart they'd know that she'd know but any amount of information they could learn would be helpful. Curren is sure to withhold certain details but I bet there's some stuff she doesn't mind sharing. Plus Thoma will see all the people gathered and learn how many members they have.

rxrx · 2011-12-31, 23:20

Sorry for the rant above. I just find it strange that people see Hitler as a monster while Columbus is one as well. Anyway, Touma's experience with the virus make him more sympathathic to the Hukebein as he also knows how it feels under the virus. Nothing about being a spy, but his thnking is base more on his feelings instead of whether is it lawful or not. In the end, we might have a grand finale of Touma, Lily and Isis Vs Everyone Else when the both sides clash. Though it will suck like real life as the main culprits that invented the virus will never get caught. One last thing, I thought there whould be no reason why one wants to save another and that is suppose to be a good thing, or am I wrong?

2011-12-31, 17:52	Link #5124
Nanya01 Left for TFF Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Frozen Hell of the North Age: 41	Are the only arguments about Force the following? "The Hucks are pure evil!"/"No they're not, they're evil, but they have a reason to be evil." "Force copies too much from A's."/"Force is way to different from A's to be liked." "The main character sucks because he's not the old cast!"/"We need some world building." "This is too dark!"/"No it's not!" "Touma's an idiot and not likeable!"/"He's doing what he thinks is right!" "Signum/Hayate got stabbed!" Because we've heard these arguments for a LONG time now, and honestly, it's tiring and repetitive. __________________ My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.

2011-12-31, 19:15	Link #5125
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	^ to be fair it's also because so far the manga only revolves around those aspects. So, part of the blame is of Tsuzuki himself xDU. The manga currently is developing into "The Huckebien have reasons" and "Tohma is doing what he thinks is right" part of the arguments. To be fair to Force, the similitudes with A's were mainly within the first half and from Ch. 19 onwards it started to look somewhat different plotwise(the similitudes between the "new weapons" stuff and Huckebein/Yagami-ke are still there, tough). The complaints about Hayate and Signum are only claims from butthurt fanboys like me. About the level of "Darkness" we can argue for centories about if it's too dark or isn't but i think we can agree is definetely darker than A's and StrikerS. Jail's evil schemes doesn't hold a candle against what Curren and Mr. Vandin are cooking here. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~ Last edited by Akiyoshi; 2011-12-31 at 19:38.

2011-12-31, 19:39	Link #5127
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	I guess part of why i can withstand Tohma's tendencies are because i've dealed with much worse emo-bombs in the past. Sure, the kid is unstable and kind of an emo bomb but he's nowhere close to the likes of Shinji Ikari xDU __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2011-12-31, 23:07	Link #5139
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	I used Collumbus instead of the usual fall back of Hitler. Hitler may have caused the deaths of 6 million Jews, but Collumbus caused the deaths of around 100 million Native Americans. The point is Thoma is a good kid. Regardless of the Huck's past deeds he would still want to save them. On the topic of Thoma being an infiltrator recall that I didn't mention him joining the organization as a whole, but merely going to that meeting. Curren did invite him and surely she knows that the Bureau will want ears there. If the Bureau is smart they'd know that she'd know but any amount of information they could learn would be helpful. Curren is sure to withhold certain details but I bet there's some stuff she doesn't mind sharing. Plus Thoma will see all the people gathered and learn how many members they have. __________________

2011-12-31, 17:23	Link #5122
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	What I would do is probably what most people would do. And your argument is that he's just that nice of a guy and I shouldn't question it at all. I accepted it with Nanoha because she's a well-rounded, likable character. Touma is not.

2011-12-31, 17:48	Link #5123
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	shrug Well, you asked for a reason, and we gave a few. Whether you like those reasons or not is up to you, but they are still reasons.

2011-12-31, 19:40	Link #5128
ZeroIchiNi Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	Don't forget that people have to go thought a whole year before that battle ended.

2011-12-31, 21:50	Link #5136
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Yeah, and just because, which is what I've been seeing to that, is a bad one. And yeah they would, because Christopher Colombus has redeeming qualities most people would know about. The only kindness the Hucks showed Touma was arbitrary and conditional. If they had been nice to him without knowing he was an infected, sure. But they didn't. As far as I'm concerned him wanting to redeem them is just so the plot can move forward.

2011-12-31, 22:31	Link #5137
rxrx Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Christopher Colombus has redeeming qualities? That guy sell people into slavary and began Imperialism which screwed many people around the world and its after effects still messed up the world as it is. Why is it that people sees the TSAB as the 'good' guys while they are just another bunch of a form of government that have both good and bad people in it and might just be the culprit again as they want better weapons to fight but the experiment screwed up and led to the uncontrollbale virus. The USA government have also used people from the third world for scientific experiments and when that screwed them over, did not even give a sorry.

2011-12-31, 23:03	Link #5138
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Well, off-topic, but judging a lot of those explorers by today's standards and perspective is a little unfair. Magellan, for example, seems like kind of a moron for trying to fight people who outnumbered him several times just because they were natives, but hey, hindsight.

2011-12-31, 23:20	Link #5140
rxrx Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Sorry for the rant above. I just find it strange that people see Hitler as a monster while Columbus is one as well. Anyway, Touma's experience with the virus make him more sympathathic to the Hukebein as he also knows how it feels under the virus. Nothing about being a spy, but his thnking is base more on his feelings instead of whether is it lawful or not. In the end, we might have a grand finale of Touma, Lily and Isis Vs Everyone Else when the both sides clash. Though it will suck like real life as the main culprits that invented the virus will never get caught. One last thing, I thought there whould be no reason why one wants to save another and that is suppose to be a good thing, or am I wrong?