(CR) 86 TV anime

[Jan-Poo]

There has to be some leverage that the Alba are using on the 86, otherwise if it was an option for them to simply not fight and sustain themselves, the whole statement that they are "forced" to fight would be false.

And if they are forced to fight, then fighting without proper support would mean certain death.

[sierra117]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

There has to be some leverage that the Alba are using on the 86, otherwise if it was an option for them to simply not fight and sustain themselves, the whole statement that they are "forced" to fight would be false.

And if they are forced to fight, then fighting without proper support would mean certain death.

Spoiler for Minor spoiler:

Their families(or anyone whose family still survive) are still at the 86 concentrate camps, and the ones who were conscripted were promised that after they served in the military and fighting Legion for a specific number of years, they or one member of their family will have their legal citizenship restored
Which lead to the banner counting the remaining service days in episode 1

[Jan-Poo]

So there you go, if they become too defiant they can be still coerced into fight but in even worse conditions with higher death expectancy.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Let’s go back to the root of my complaint to confront your accusation of me moving the goal posts:
(Please note that I do not use unconfirmed/mysterious factors here in my argument)

1. I complained that Theo’s rant to Lena is annoying coz what he did can risk the Spearhead’s survival rate. I said: from Theo’s/Spearhead’s perspective, how did they know that Lena is a true kind girl like the audience know her?
2. To that question, you came up with the reason that Shin’s ability somewhat provides Spearhead members with a guarantee that Lena is just as kind as she sounds.
3. If that’s true then I can happily rendered my complaint moot after I know the specifics of what Shin’s ability/skill is when it’s revealed in future episodes. But for the meantime, my complaint for Theo’s rant still stands.

Is that so hard to understand?

I guess I just found Theo's rant to be a very believable and human moment that is understandable considering the circumstances (even for an experienced child soldier), so I don't really see the problem with it even if logically it might not have been the best thing to do.

But humans don't always operate under logic.

[Tenzen12]

It might logicaly best thing, but it's not particularly bad either,

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Frontier

I guess I just found Theo's rant to be a very believable and human moment that is understandable considering the circumstances (even for an experienced child soldier), so I don't really see the problem with it even if logically it might not have been the best thing to do.

But humans don't always operate under logic.

If Sierra's spoiler tag above is true then Theo could've also risked his & his Unit's families' safety with his rant to Lena. And that's even worse than I originally thought .

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Undertaker decided the general area of deployment as usual, Lena simply recommended a spot for Gunslinger to go to provide support. I don't think that affected everyone else's actions. I think it was also implied that the enemy Kaie was after stood in that precise position for the precise purpose of luring someone there.

The bolded one is what I meant. It's something that can be used against Spearhead members (among other methods that might be available to Handlers) if Lena really meant harm.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

If Sierra's spoiler tag above is true then Theo could've also risked his & his Unit's families' safety with his rant to Lena. And that's even worse than I originally thought .

I'm not saying what he did was right or not a risk, but I can understand why it happened.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

If Sierra's spoiler tag above is true then Theo could've also risked his & his Unit's families' safety with his rant to Lena. And that's even worse than I originally thought .

The bolded one is what I meant. It's something that can be used against Spearhead members (among other methods that might be available to Handlers) if Lena really meant harm.

If it worked like this processors wouldn't fight at all because all of their families would be already dead. Processors and handlers openly hold each other in contempt as default, but as long as former fight and later don't sabotage it too much everything is dandy.

Also while handler can give instruction, it's on processors to screen it. You could see Spearhead squad for most part do their own thing and only listen to Lena advice if they deem it helpful.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

If it worked like this processors wouldn't fight at all because all of their families would be already dead. Processors and handlers openly hold each other in contempt as default, but as long as former fight and later don't sabotage it too much everything is dandy.

Then what happen if the Handler do sabotage things? Especially for units that don't have Shin's ability?

[Magewolf]

As I mentioned after the first episode the whole "war" situation makes no sense. Either the 86's are an effective fighting force, in which case they should be attacking the Alba, or they are not in which the whole thing is even more of a farce than it appears now.

As for the whole family held hostage thing. You have to wonder how many have family if they have already burned through all the adults with millions dead. (For that matter how do they still have an active army at all? That is worse than any defeated army in human history that I can think of.) And who would believe that any of them were getting out of the war alive by this point so you might as well go out fighting the people who slaughtered you family or just stop fighting and let the robots do your work for you.

[sierra117]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

As I mentioned after the first episode the whole "war" situation makes no sense. Either the 86's are an effective fighting force, in which case they should be attacking the Alba, or they are not in which the whole thing is even more of a farce than it appears now.

As for the whole family held hostage thing. You have to wonder how many have family if they have already burned through all the adults with millions dead. (For that matter how do they still have an active army at all? That is worse than any defeated army in human history that I can think of.) And who would believe that any of them were getting out of the war alive by this point so you might as well go out fighting the people who slaughtered you family or just stop fighting and let the robots do your work for you.

Which is futile, because there is a giant fortress wall dotted with large-caliber artilleries along with minefield separated they and the Albas

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by sierra117

Which is futile, because there is a giant fortress wall dotted with large-caliber artilleries along with minefield separated they and the Albas

If the wall can stop the 86 then why do they need them at all? Since the 86 can beat the robots anything that can stop them ought to stop the robots.

[sierra117]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

If the wall can stop the 86 then why do they need them at all? Since the 86 can beat the robots anything that can stop them ought to stop the robots.

This case isn’t something we can scale to each other, 86s were able to BARELY defend against Legion because they heavily made use of guerrilla warfare and terrain advantages to forces the Legion to suffered enough lost to consider a tactical retreat, and that still resulted in complete annihilation or disastrous lost for 86s on daily basis
Against a giant wall, All the above are rendered useless

[Edgardes]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

As I mentioned after the first episode the whole "war" situation makes no sense. Either the 86's are an effective fighting force, in which case they should be attacking the Alba, or they are not in which the whole thing is even more of a farce than it appears now.

As for the whole family held hostage thing. You have to wonder how many have family if they have already burned through all the adults with millions dead. (For that matter how do they still have an active army at all? That is worse than any defeated army in human history that I can think of.) And who would believe that any of them were getting out of the war alive by this point so you might as well go out fighting the people who slaughtered you family or just stop fighting and let the robots do your work for you.

Every time I see someone talking about how the 86s should just revolt, it makes me wonder why people often forget about something so simple: Their ammo, the Juggernaut, and the spare parts needed to repair it are all provided by the Republic.

[Tenzen12]

Not to mention Republic provide means of communication as well. In first place 86 do not have to be effective fighting force, they just have to be effective fighting force enough.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Then what happen if the Handler do sabotage things? Especially for units that don't have Shin's ability?

If They might get paycheck cut. Sure noone will cry for processors (it's actually possible they are meant to be exterminatied), they have to take enough enemies with them to make up for cost of Juggernaut

Thing 8f it as labor camp. Warden don't get punished no matter how much prisoners dies but they do if they can't get quota done.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

The bolded one is what I meant. It's something that can be used against Spearhead members (among other methods that might be available to Handlers) if Lena really meant harm.

It would have a very limited effectiveness, in that it would do harm one time and that's it. Nobody actually considered that an order, they took it as a suggestion and after checking and evaluating the proposal themselves they accepted it. The moment they realize Lena is trolling them, they would stop listening to her.

But this is anyway a completely farfetched scenario, nobody is even remotely thinking that Lena is a psychopath and they are not questioning her competence, they just consider her a sheltered princess who needs to act all compassionate to their plight to feel better about herself.

Originally Posted by Edgardes

Every time I see someone talking about how the 86s should just revolt, it makes me wonder why people often forget about something so simple: Their ammo, the Juggernaut, and the spare parts needed to repair it are all provided by the Republic.

They would only need enough to target a supply center to fuel their next attacks and so on. Of course that would require a lot of planning and coordination among different groups, but if I were the Alba I would take measures against that possibility and I wouldn't simply assume some walls can protect the country.

Of course it's a completely different story if the Alba actually have an army to defend against not just the 86 but also the inevitable waves of legions after that, but that leads to the other possibility that they aren't really fighting the legion with all their might and they are using this situation to simply get rid of the 86.

[Last Sinner]

Well, Episode 3 certainly gave the rest of the cast some serious development. To the point I feel more resolute in continuing. But certainly as some others have said, world-building would help. Beyond the first episode, the rhyme and reason for the war and why things are this way is vague at best.

[Edgardes]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

They would only need enough to target a supply center to fuel their next attacks and so on. Of course that would require a lot of planning and coordination among different groups, but if I were the Alba I would take measures against that possibility and I wouldn't simply assume some walls can protect the country.

They would need to take down the wall to do that, and we don't even know if the Juggernauts are equipped with weapons able to do that.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Of course it's a completely different story if the Alba actually have an army to defend against not just the 86 but also the inevitable waves of legions after that, but that leads to the other possibility that they aren't really fighting the legion with all their might and they are using this situation to simply get rid of the 86.

Isn't that the point? They know the Legion are going to shut down in a few years so they are just doing the bare minimum and letting the 86 die since they don't even see them as humans.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Edgardes

Isn't that the point? They know the Legion are going to shut down in a few years so they are just doing the bare minimum and letting the 86 die since they don't even see them as humans.

That's certainly not the official version. They claim the measure they took was necessary to survive, not that they are doing the bare minimum to defend against the legion and getting rid of 86 as a bonus.

[Tenzen12]

That's not mutualy exclusive. Especiay as war is is going on for quite while already. It's unlikely that bigshots want 86 actualy come and tell people about how bloodless and mechanised war truly was.