Ukrainian Conflict

[Fireminer]

I suspose that anti-war activity in US got less powerful after 11/9. Remember that they did contribute a large part in America pulling troops out of Vietnam? I remember reading somewhere that American now don't care much about the country that their soldiers could be in, but more about the price that they had to pay.

Maybe Vallen is right, a "terrorist" label does help smooth everything.

[AnimeFan188]

Here's something from 2008:

7:42PM BST 17 Aug 2008


Russia 'distributing passports in the Crimea':

"The allegation has prompted accusations that Russia is using the same tactics
employed in the Georgian breakaway regions of Abhkazia and South Ossetia in
order to create a pretext for a war.

Russia handed out passports to the residents of the two provinces, which have
long looked to Moscow for support, five years ago. The Kremlin has justified
its invasion of Georgia in terms of defending its citizens in Abkhazia and
South Ossetia from Georgian "aggression".

Mykola Stretovych, an MP with Ukraine's ruling orange coalition, claimed that
Russia was engaged in a massive operation to hand out passports in Sevastopol,
home to 400,000 people, many of whom have historic ties with Russia."

Source:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...he-Crimea.html


Why are the Ukrainians surprised by what the Russians are doing now?

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Fireminer

I suspose that anti-war activity in US got less powerful after 11/9. Remember that they did contribute a large part in America pulling troops out of Vietnam? I remember reading somewhere that American now don't care much about the country that their soldiers could be in, but more about the price that they had to pay.

Maybe Vallen is right, a "terrorist" label does help smooth everything.

Media is now controlled better by government?

I means the war in Vietnam was reported by war journalist standing right on the front line of the conflict and give the audiences true brutal taste of war from both side. But now, TV audiences care more about Miley Cyrus and what not

[Ithekro]

There were still only a few channels in the late 1960s. So the options were limited. Now with hundreds of channels, people can avoid the real news, so the real news has to entertain to get the people back...rather that...be the news.

[Fireminer]

You sounds like a lot of people loves escapism.

[sbg711]

MSNBC propaganda fail xD



Putin visits military exercises in Leningrad Oblast. MSNBC places an overlay label "Crimea, Ukraine".

[Der Langrisser]

Shots fired in air during raid at Crimea naval base
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A1Q1E820140310

[sbg711]

Today, Crimea’s new prime minister Aksyonov is leading the campaign of turning Crimea into a Russian republic.
In 1979 a soviet novelist wrote a fiction book titled The Crimean Island, in which he suggested an alternative course of historic events which would make Crimea an independent republic rather than Ukrainian territory. The write’s surname was Aksyonov. And the surname of the main protagonist was… Aksyonov.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by sbg711

Today, Crimea’s new prime minister Aksyonov is leading the campaign of turning Crimea into a Russian republic.
In 1979 a soviet novelist wrote a fiction book titled The Crimean Island, in which he suggested an alternative course of historic events which would make Crimea an independent republic rather than Ukrainian territory. The write’s surname was Aksyonov. And the surname of the main protagonist was… Aksyonov.

Sure that it was not the same guy?

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Sure that it was not the same guy?

That is a false accusation of ego-boosting. Aksyonov is a common name!

[sbg711]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

That is a false accusation of ego-boosting. Aksyonov is a common name!

*Surname

Ukraine's new MOD Igor Tenukh

According to him, Russia deployed in Crimea:

-220 THOUSAND men strong army

-1800 tanks (holy sh%t, do they really have that many?)

-More than 400 attack helicopters

-150 planes

-60 ships

YouTube

https://youtu.be/yVNsB8vnJWo

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Not sure if related
http://www.interfax.ru/russia/363793

Москва. 11 марта. INTERFAX.RU - В рамках командно-штабных учений Ивановского соединения Воздушно-десантных войск РФ впервые за 20 лет будет проведено массовое десантирование около 3,5 тыс. десантников, сообщил "Интерфаксу" во вторник официальный представитель ВДВ подполковник Евгений Мешков.

"Всего в учениях будет задействовано около 4 тыс. десантников, 36 воздушных судов Военно-транспортной и армейской авиации. Руководит учениями командующий Воздушно-десантными войсками генерал-полковник Владимир Шаманов", - сказал Мешков.


Он уточнил, что учения стартовали 11 марта, уведомление о местах проведения десантной операции командование соединением получит в ходе учений.


Мешков добавил, что, по указанию командующего ВДВ, подразделения должны находиться в готовности к оперативному применению в различных широтах и условиях с одинаковой эффективностью.

In short, Russia's holding a VDV (paratrooper) exercise with 36 planes and up to 4,000 paratroopers practising a landing operation on varied terrain.


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YouTube

https://youtu.be/wjU8MFabyOs

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[sbg711]

haha

YouTube

https://youtu.be/wh6CebmfqWQ

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[konart]

Originally Posted by sbg711

*Surname

Ukraine's new MOD Igor Tenukh

According to him, Russia deployed in Crimea:

-220 THOUSAND men strong army

-1800 tanks (holy sh%t, do they really have that many?)

-More than 400 attack helicopters

-150 planes

-60 ships

Well, this is complete bullshit.

220 000 men is pretty much all our active force, the real number in Crimea is about 6000.

Wiki says we now have 20k tanks (lol ) with 6500 in service

The number of helis sent to Crimea is about 20-30, no more. 400 is more than a half of all our helis

150 planes seems unlikely too - where are they? Not to mention we don't have as many planes as helis

60 ships - again, where are they? 60 ships need space to stay and operate.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by konart

Well, this is complete bullshit.

220 000 men is pretty much all our active force, the real number in Crimea is about 6000.

Wiki says we now have 20k tanks (lol ) with 6500 in service

The number of helis sent to Crimea is about 20-30, no more. 400 is more than a half of all our helis

150 planes seems unlikely too - where are they? Not to mention we don't have as many planes as helis

60 ships - again, where are they? 60 ships need space to stay and operate.

A pontoon with an MG is still a ship you know.

[Slayerx]

It seems like the referendum in Crimea already has the makings of a rigged vote.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...ia/496024.html
There are only two measures on the ballot the people can vote for; Join Russia, or greater independence. Anaylst have already noted that with the greater indepdence that Crimea had in 1992, the pro-russia's in Crimea's government could easily move Crimea closer under Russian control. There is only one box to check off on each measure which means "yes"; There is no check box for "No" or a vote to for Crimea to maintain their current semi-autonomous status with Ukraine.

Its one thing to have a vote for Independence, but what makes the matter rather corrupt is that their isn't a vote for "No"... The vote has essentially already been rigged by those with an agenda(like the head of the election committee). And that's not taking into account the other issues, like how they are doing this when there are Russian troops running around and occupying their government buildings... I mean really, who is gonna vote "no" when the soldiers that want you to vote "yes" are standing guard? You can't really hold a referendum under such conditions.

[kyp275]

No kidding, I guess the “referendum at gunpoint” isn’t enough, they literally took a page straight out of Dear Leader Kim’s book on how to conduct a vote

“You can either vote yes to join Russia today, or you can vote yes to join Russia tomorrow. And no, we’re totally not trying to make a point with those men with guns watching you right this moment” #jedimindtrick

Only thing they’re missing now is a 100% turnout, the 100% in favor is already guaranteed with two Yes options on the ballot

[Der Langrisser]

EU moves toward sanctions on Russians, Obama meets Ukraine PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A1Q1E820140312

[LeoXiao]

Man Putin is really going full retard. Why not just have a fair election when you know they aren't going to vote to rejoin Ukraine anyway?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

Man Putin is really going full retard. Why not just have a fair election when you know they aren't going to vote to rejoin Ukraine anyway?

Putin is flaunting his power; namely he wants to prove that he never has to obey anyone else's rules. It would be like a crime gang committing a robbery in broad daylight in front of police officers, and gets away with it. Putin want to show that he can't be challenged.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

It seems like the referendum in Crimea already has the makings of a rigged vote.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...ia/496024.html
There are only two measures on the ballot the people can vote for; Join Russia, or greater independence. Anaylst have already noted that with the greater indepdence that Crimea had in 1992, the pro-russia's in Crimea's government could easily move Crimea closer under Russian control. There is only one box to check off on each measure which means "yes"; There is no check box for "No" or a vote to for Crimea to maintain their current semi-autonomous status with Ukraine.

Its one thing to have a vote for Independence, but what makes the matter rather corrupt is that their isn't a vote for "No"... The vote has essentially already been rigged by those with an agenda(like the head of the election committee). And that's not taking into account the other issues, like how they are doing this when there are Russian troops running around and occupying their government buildings... I mean really, who is gonna vote "no" when the soldiers that want you to vote "yes" are standing guard? You can't really hold a referendum under such conditions.

...Jesus Christ.

I'd thought that if they were going to go for the corrupt route, they'd at least hide it but...holy shit.

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

Man Putin is really going full retard. Why not just have a fair election when you know they aren't going to vote to rejoin Ukraine anyway?

I've come to increasingly suspect that the Russian's are taking these measures cause they're not confident in referendum passing fairly. The Russian's may be the dominant ethnic group, but that's still only 58% of the population. That leaves 42% who are nonethnic. Seems fairly clear cut...if you assume uniform consensus on the part of the Russians. If the ethnic Ukranians/Tartars remain consistent in not wanting to join Russia, and you get some spillover from ethnic Russians, it's entirely possible that a "fair" vote to join Russia might fail.'

Russia is clearly taking preemptive steps to make sure the vote goes the right way regardless. It'd also explain the pro-nationalist activists on the ground being so damned spooked by by any protests against the Russians, or foreign news crews.