Fate/Zero - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[Thess]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Ugh he's horrible.

If Emiya is correct he's spent so far what? 10 episodes hiding in his basement? Granted the intel being provided by the assassins were nice but he's making some bad choices IMO.

Even Emiya has stated that it's better to leave Berserker alone because he is capable of countering Archer's Gate.

He's an idiot.

He summoned one of the biggest thrill-seekers in history (Gilgamesh) and expects him to sit back and stay in his basement?

At least he should have had Kirei summoning Enkidu or something to keep him entertained.

[FlareKnight]

It was an episode with a great deal of talking. Mostly setting up Kirei to get back into this war via Gilgamesh's chatter. Makes an interesting point though about Kirei being focused on Kariya. Hinting that his interest is because he is entertained by another's tragedy and suffering. Certainly makes you wonder what that kind of man would do with the grail if he did obtain it.

Surprised at the state Irisviel is currently in right now. Seems also that they will ignore Saber's internal issues for a while. Guess there's no point until she faces an opponent and what Rider talked about might come up again.

But yeah....surprised that the only casualty is Assassin. Hopefully the next episode will toss a lot at us so we can get this 'war' going.

[Reckoner]

Really enjoyed the episode. The dialogue of this show alone could keep me entertained to be honest. It really is too bad that this show is taking a break for a few months.

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

Other parts of the episode were so-so. I'm honestly at a point where I am "cool story broing" Saber atm. Seriously, she is weak, naive and boring that I hardly care about her considering there's much more interesting servants out there like Rider, Caster and even Gilgamesh. I mean she's one of the main characters, supposed to be the strongest class but is being portrayed as such an underpowered underdog. IIRC I didn't feel the same way I did to Saber when I watched Fate Stay Night many years ago.

You don't admire the path of the martyr she set up for her ideal of a King .

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

Regardless, I am finding it very frustrating that it's the 2nd last episode of the 1st cour of Fate/Zero and someone has STILL not died

This is silly. Putting people in body bags would accomplish nothing. Had they been so trigger happy with killing people it would exemplify both a level of incompetency on part of the defeated as well as lack of impact over the matters occuring in front of us.

Instead of death we are bearing witness to something much worst here in the making. We are watching several people go through much suffering and torment to reach their goals in this war. Remember people, sometimes death isn't the worst thing that can happen to a character. Like Kotomine said this episode for example, death for Kariya would almost certainly be a blessing for him at this point.

I much rather have all the character exposition we are having than quickly throwing people into body bags for no particularly good reason.

Personally, the pacing save the Rin episode has been utterly perfect for me. Every episode is just crammed with so much detail, with so many things we are learning about all the characters. To say nothing is happening is just off the mark. If you define good pacing my deaths and packing in hundreds of action scenes I think you walked into the show under the wrong pretense.

[abc0716]

The dialogues on this episode are pretty interesting, especially the chats between Gilgamesh and KK (Kotomine Kirei).

Despite this is a speech-only episode, but it's not bad afterall. And I don't have idea why somebody said action-less episode is unwatchable, this is pretty absurd.

7/10 for the rating on the episode.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

but I donno if I can even assume that at this point. The pacing of F/Z has been too slow and whilst the dialogue exchanges have been largely good, things need to start dying or Fate Zero pacing is little to no better than your average shonen series.

Just ask yourself if those talks are for naught.

Because in my eyes, they are not. If anything the dialogues we have gotten so far, notably in episodes 11 & 12 have shed light on the characters, their motivations and what made them tick. It gives them a depth that I welcome with open arms. In episode 11, I have been able to see and judge how Alexander and Saber view Kingship, needless to say I'd gladly follow Alexander if I could. In this one episode we are seeing Gilgamesh tempting Kotomine with the possibility to entertain himself outside of the boundaries he set himself around him with his christian education. Until then, Kotomine have been shown as an aimless individual who would do everything because his father, and Tokiomi, told him so. In other words, he was the pawn. But Gilgamesh talked him into being more proactive, acting for himself and becoming the knight, or even the chessmaster himself.

If I have to choose between deaths or insight in characters at this point, I'd rather choose the latter.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Archer

Nah, Kiritsugu's still his primary obsession and goal. Kariya is instead someone that he noticed unconsciously.

EDIT: With the way that's everyone's treating Kariya (especially during this episode), I'm thinking that he'll probably be the last of the Masters to survive.

Now, normally that would be a good thing. However, from the way that Gilgamesh is goading Kotomine, I can't imagine it being anything good at all.

Is there a point in anyone fighting Kariya to begin with, he will die within a month, and then anyone can contract his servant.

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

I've never watched or played FSN before, but is Saber and Iri's new base what I think it is?

If you have neither watched or played it, how could you know

Originally Posted by Prince of Chips

Kirei finally wake up from being a puppet

The poor lad, all he wants is to be left alone and now after wife, and dad, it has another prick bugging him every night

Originally Posted by Flawnalyst

Didn't like this episode. It was just people talking, and unless the characters involved are Rider or Waver (or even the Caster team), talking heads aren't exciting. 5/10 for being so boring.

That's a good thing in general, as long as it gives an insight into the characters' personalities and does not deteriorate to techno-babbling and this episode was dangerously flirting with Sunrise/J.C. Staff practices of animation budget management.

Originally Posted by Thess

He's an idiot.

He summoned one of the biggest thrill-seekers in history (Gilgamesh) and expects him to sit back and stay in his basement?

At least he should have had Kirei summoning Enkidu or something to keep him entertained.

You have to wait for the Fate/Yaoi spin-off

[fertygo]

Why everyone bitching about death poll when they already know only few that survive in the end anyway? Weird...

Maybe making faithful 2 cour adaptation for 4 volume of LN is bad idea afterall, they should just butch it or something.

[Tom Bombadil]

Pretty boring episode. I bet at the end even the director thought that "well, the dialogue has been going on for too long. Let's changed a few camera angles". Then we are looking at Kirei's ass again.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

You have to wait for the Fate/Yaoi spin-off

We know that's what Fate/Zero really is about.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Thess

We know that's what Fate/Zero really is about.

No, don't shatter my dreams about Saber's...

... and I just noticed your signature, which explains why a vengeful dude eventually turned them to salt or something, even he/it couldn't stand fujoushi

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

No, don't shatter my dreams about Saber's...

Yuri with Iri is fine too.

Originally Posted by Malkuth

... and I just noticed your signature, which explains why a vengeful dude eventually turned them to salt or something, even he/it couldn't stand fujoushi

Ishtar was just butthurt of Gil/Enkidu OTP.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Thess

Yuri with Iri is fine too.

Nah... I had something more populous in mind, since the fourth or fifth episode

Originally Posted by Thess

Ishtar was just butthurt of Gil/Enkidu OTP.

Well, she had a good reason to be

[zeando]

first part was like a recap, the second was really great, it's always nice to see the characters think and have some development based only on discussion with no need of a brawl
similar to the previous episode, but more on the ideological/personal plane
it's only a bit sad seeing kirei being so easily influenced by gilgamesh, and being continuously dragged in by the events

but many people seems to enjoy more watching than listening
i scored it 9/10
(yeah, because i'm a kid too, and i need to be obnoxious about my votes )

[Haak]

The biggest problem with this episode is that the entire episode seems to be about alluding to future events in FSN. But because of the forum rules we can't talk about them. It's an even bigger problem when it also alludes to future events in the FSN VN and not the anime. This is about as much that can be said...

I thought this was a good episode, but I think they could've done more to explain why Tokiomi had chosen to use all the Assassins (instead of leaving at least one behind as everyone including myself naturally thought) and how he already regretted it. Unlike some others though, I really do enjoy the character exploration in this show. It's just brilliant.

Originally Posted by Thess

He's an idiot.

He summoned one of the biggest thrill-seekers in history (Gilgamesh) and expects him to sit back and stay in his basement? .

To be fair, I don't think he expected Gilgamesh to come out as an Archer. I think it's the Independant Action skill that's caused the biggest trouble.

[jeroz]

forget about the Kayneth-Sola-Lancer triangle, Gilgamesh is truly seducing Kotomine right there.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Nah... I had something more populous in mind, since the fourth or fifth episode

Saber/Lancer? They sure are growing in popularity...
Though if I had to choose between Saber/Lancer and Saber/Shirou... it would definitively be Saber/Lancer!

Shirou ruined her way too much

[Kanon]

I didn't expect such a dialogue heavy episode so close to the end of the first cour. I fear the first cour is going to end on a cliffhanger, probably right when the battle against Caster finally starts (that's assuming anybody is ever going to actively try hunting him down).

That being said, it was still a highly enjoyable episode, especially the second half. Gil and Kirei's dialogues are always fascinating, at least for F/SN players. I didn't think Gil played such a huge part in Kirei's development.

Originally Posted by Haak

The biggest problem with this episode is that the entire episode seems to be about alluding to future events in FSN. But because of the forum rules we can't talk about them. It's an even bigger problem when it also alludes to future events in the FSN VN and not the anime. This is about as much that can be said...

Agreed. And it's not just this episode. Not being able to talk about F/SN is crippling the discussions. Furthermore, Fate/Zero is a prequel that was written long after Fate/Stay Night. It matters little that F/Z chronologically takes place before events of F/SN, it was written as a "prequel to F/SN", it's not F/SN that was written as a "sequel to F/Z"; that makes a big difference. You are clearly expected to be familiar with F/SN. Hell, F/Z has more spoilers for F/SN than the opposite, one of the biggest secret of the game has been casually spoiled already. The correct order to read/watch the two series is F/SN -> F/Z, and therefore the spoiler policy should treat F/Z as the sequel (a prequel is a sequel). Forbidding F/SN spoilers in F/Z is as nonsensical as forbidding people to talk about the first season of a show in the thread for the second season.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I didn't expect such a dialogue heavy episode so close to the end of the first cour. I fear the first cour is going to end on a cliffhanger, probably right when the battle against Caster finally starts (that's assuming anybody is ever going to actively try hunting him down).

That being said, it was still a highly enjoyable episode, especially the second half. Gil and Kirei's dialogues are always fascinating, at least for F/SN players. I didn't think Gil played such a huge part in Kirei's development.



Agreed. And it's not just this episode. Not being able to talk about F/SN is crippling the discussions. Furthermore, Fate/Zero is a prequel that was written long after Fate/Stay Night. It matters little that F/Z chronologically takes place before events of F/SN, it was written as a "prequel to F/SN", it's not F/SN that was written as a "sequel to F/Z"; that makes a big difference. You are clearly expected to be familiar with F/SN. Hell, F/Z has more spoilers for F/SN than the opposite, one of the biggest secret of the game has been casually spoiled already. The correct order to read/watch the two series is F/SN -> F/Z, and therefore the spoiler policy should treat F/Z as the sequel (a prequel is a sequel). Forbidding F/SN spoilers in F/Z is as nonsensical as forbidding people to talk about the first season of a show in the thread for the second season.

There is a thread for that.

Fate/Zero - Speculation & Theories (for F/SN Anime-only Viewers)

[TheDrifter]

i liked all the talking in this episode. but...i fear something bad is going to happen to the basement dweller. it seems i'm the only one that likes this guy. he seems to be a fire mage, has a cool fancy red suit, and i like how he walks in circles to sip wine. damn blonde hair, red eye, golden armor punk has to trick his student to kill him.

Spoiler for Question about Tokiomi's life:

Is Toki going to be killed by Kirei?

[Thess]

Originally Posted by jeroz

forget about the Kayneth-Sola-Lancer triangle, Gilgamesh is truly seducing Kotomine right there.

I did laugh of how they chop and cut stuff pertaining his obsession with Saber while focus on his TEMPTATION OF KOTOMINE.