Code Geass Ep. 15 subs problems on a Mac? Read this.

[FromageTheDog]

Here's what I did to finally see subs on my Mac:

1. Download and install MPlayer 1.0rc1 (get it here: http://www.mplayerhq.hu/design7/dload.html)
2. Edit the .mplayer/config file in your home directory (might need to run MPlayer once so that the directory/file are created). Easy way is to open a Terminal window and type: "pico .mplayer/config". Add, on separate lines: "sid=0" and "ass=1" (without the quotes). Save and exit (Ctrl-O, Ctrl-X).
3. Start MPlayer, and open the Preferences window. In "Subtitles Settings," choose a font that isn't "None". Might need to try a couple different ones before you find one that works.
4. During playback, hit "v" to enable/disable subtitles.

Enjoy!

[rataime]

Well, gg have intentionally change the format of their subtitles to render VLC useless, which is moronic at best. Mplayer doesn't work for everyone (variations in the text encoding...), and the "try to compile, see if it woks" method isn't suitable, especially for mac users.

So OSX/Vista users are basically told to f**k off. Lame.

From their playback page :

Is it true I can steal/edit your subtitles from MKV’s?
Yes it is. Download MKVToolnix and MKVExtractGUI.

I did exactly that, and modified the file to have it play in VLC. Given that they blocked all discussion on their website, I'm going to post those subs here :

http://rataime.free.fr/misc/Geass.srt

I'll give a try to fixing VLC, but I can promise anything. I anyone can help, see http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?t=31824

Happy Code Geass

[liamroy]

@martino -

Like rataime quoted, the instructions for demuxing their subs are included in their playback faq. In the past, they have explicitly encouraged people to do so when they released updated subtitles for certain episodes, but didn't want to deal with re-distributing the entire file. As far as I'm concerned they've no reason complain if someone releases a version of their subs that isn't deliberately sabotaged.

@rataime -

Heh, I did exactly the same thing, except I posted the link to my file on that awful comment thread. They promptly removed the link.

This is puzzling, given that they do to a degree actively encourage you to mess with their distro. I think the irony of this situation is that their anti-VLC sabotage created more aggrivation than if they had left well enough alone. I can certainly understand the desire to end the constant stream of "why won't my download play" questions any fansubber group must recieve - I do work in tech support for a living.

In that thread I made a comparison between what gg had done and someone coding a web page to specifically work only in IE and not work in Firefox. Another poster replied:

MKV is newer than AVI. So MKV = firefox, and AVI = IE. (i wonder who this is directed at?)

Well, it was clearly directed at me. However, unlike IE, VLC is not being pushed by the largest software company in the world. Most people choose to use VLC because it plays nearly every media file you throw at it, on any platform, and with generally good results. It could be improved, as any program could be, but it's popular for a good reason.

I would love to see some enterprising young code monkeys take up the cause and create a build of VLC that has proper .ssa/.ass support. But for now, I or someone else will gladly spend two minutes to create an .srt for future episodes of Code Geass.

[liamroy]

It is also worth mentioning that the good folk in the gg forums have found the solution to the "block" issue where the subs showed up as empty characters no matter which font you select.

Basically, you need to rename font packages that have no extension (.***) so that they have a .ttf extension. MPlayer will then recognise the font and allow you to use it. You might make a copy of the fonts you want to use and rename those, just in case. You can also move a copy of the fonts to MPlayer/Contents/Resources/Fonts.

Personally I don't really notice a difference in playback quality between MPlayer and VLC, but I own two Core Duo machines so processor speed isn't really an issue for me.

And IMHO this still doesn't make gg's attitude or sabotage okay.

[rataime]

Actually, I posted it (asking if it was ok) in the first thread. However, I wasn't aware at the time that they were breaking vlc willingly, and got deleted quickly.

In fact, if you read their forums, they mention they dont even care if you create a hardsub yourself.

Oh, and I'm a fansubber myself. I can understand they don't want to tech support anything. Still, sabotage is plain stupid.

[Nicholi]

Vista users should be able to use normal playback solutions. The CCCP is working out some Vista specific bugs, we should have all of them fixed by now in our latest beta. The overall solution though would be: Don't use Vista unless you are an advanced user that will never complain "but no one is developing software on my broken OS ;-;, sniff sniff".

Otherwise for Mac OSX there are easily findable mplayer builds. Two of which I know of. One directly from www.mplayerhq.hu and the other more recent SVN builds is here. Not actually looking into the solutions is pretty ignorant on your part. GG is probably going to continue to break VLC playback, so you should either 1: poke VLC devs constantly to update subtitle rendering or 2: stop watching GG subs. Done.

[Navel]

Playback works fine on a computer that's properly set up and when the proper tools are used. However, some people are not very inclined to tech matters or are simply not aware of it and don't have a proper setup on their system or expect any player they use to simply "work".

By chance, they end up watching some video file and find out it doesn't work. Then someone recommends them VLC as a miraculous "plays-it-all" solution. But guess what, VLC has issues. And as soon as they encounter an otherwise proper file but on which VLC misbehaves, the guilty finger is pointed at the creators of the video file.

Well, guess what, it's not the video file that's to blame here, it's not the encoders, and it's not VLC either (after all, there's a limit to what people who write code in their spare time are willing to do when they could use that time to their own benefit than cater to others). It's their inability to set up their system properly, to use the proper tool for playback (players, codecs) or, if they're not at all tech inclined, to listen to those who tell them how to do it. Things like CCCP and the people behind it exist for this very reason.

liamroy, you say you work in tech support. Then you'll probably find useful in your line of work the following chinese saying: "when a hungry man begs for food, you don't give him the fish you caught, but you teach him how to fish".

[liamroy]

All this discussion dodges the issue that GG deliberately inserted bad coding in order to break one specific player because they don't like it. That is what got me and a lot of other people angry. It's not that we're ungrateful, or that we're stupid, it's that GG did something verifiably malicious for no good demonstrable reason.

And ancient (likely apocryphal) Chinese sayings are all well and good until you have a line of people at the front counter and two people on the phone who all want fish right now. Some days I do think that using a computer should require a license just like driving does, but that's a tad eletist, don't you think?

[Harukalover]

Originally Posted by liamroy

All this discussion dodges the issue that GG deliberately inserted bad coding in order to break one specific player because they don't like it. That is what got me and a lot of other people angry. It's not that we're ungrateful, or that we're stupid, it's that GG did something verifiably malicious for no good demonstrable reason.

And ancient (likely apocryphal) Chinese sayings are all well and good until you have a line of people at the front counter and two people on the phone who all want fish right now. Some days I do think that using a computer should require a license just like driving does, but that's a tad eletist, don't you think?

Did you hire them to sub Code Geass?

If you answer no then guess what. GG can do whatever the hell they want to their subs. After all, it is a fansub. They have no obligations to you or anyone else.

[Nicholi]

Stop watching GG subs. That pretty much solves the issue for you. I see that the only other group doing Code Geass is SHS, so go download from there.

It's like complaining about going to see a bad movie. No one held a gun to your face and said "Pay us $9.50 to see our fucking movie!". If you don't like their deviously "haxed" subtitles, stop contributing to their popular use by watching them.

[iamtetsuo]

It sounds like Fromoge just set up Mplayer as suggested in my How to thread, but I'll download this and verify that. Appropriate edits will be made to the How to watch fansubs with your mac thread if necesary

[GHDpro]

Assuming it's true that GG is deliberately blocking the usage of VLC on their releases, then it simply might have to do with the crappy support for soft-subtitles in VLC. Perhaps they grew tired of people complaining about VLC not working properly, and simply changed the subs to make sure VLC simply won't work at all.

Of course, if you're using something else than Windows then VLC could very realistically be one of the primary ways of watching fansubs. Sure there is mplayer, but I'm not sure how popular that is on Mac OS X for example.

Anyway... the general lesson is: VLC & soft-subtitles don't mix (unless some major rewrites & improvements are made). So whatever platform you're on, use a player that can handle soft-subtitles better.

[liamroy]

I'd dl Geass from SHS if they weren't working on 15 other projects and what, 7 or 8 episodes behind the curve? I love the work they did on Black Lagoon, but sometimes methinks they try to do too much.

And if you do something for free, does that mean that you're exempt from all criticism? If I volunteer at the library then run around tearing pages out of books so people can't read them, does the library have any right to complain? After all, I'm working for free.

Once you provide a service to the public domain, whether you're paid for it or not, there are a few baseline standards for conduct. And one is to not sabotage your own work out of spite.

[Nicholi]

Originally Posted by liamroy

And if you do something for free, does that mean that you're exempt from all criticism? If I volunteer at the library then run around tearing pages out of books so people can't read them, does the library have any right to complain? After all, I'm working for free.

No they aren't exempt from criticism. But that doesn't mean they give a fuck, or that someone still won't tell you to stfu when you continue to complain. Obviously you are missing the point...there are other alternatives. GG does not seem to care about your opinion (as far as I can tell), maybe you are too dense to see that. Are you going to continue to be a mindless lemming and just download their fansubs forever and complain? Lawls n_n. It probably makes you so much easier to ignore that way. It proves they do a good job in fact...oh well for you .

[Arimfe]

liamroy why don't you go bug the VLC developers instead?
It'll be far more productive that way, you and this thread won't be able to change the GG subbers' minds.
Between this crappy softsub "able" player, and this softsub from GG. Which one do you think is the faulty product?
Hint: GG's sub is complying with the standards, VLC doesn't.

[Nicholi]

Originally Posted by liamroy

Once you provide a service to the public domain, whether you're paid for it or not, there are a few baseline standards for conduct. And one is to not sabotage your own work out of spite.

Also as to this incredibly stupid fucking statement leeches think they can make. No, just no. Providing a service to the public in no way whatsoever requires you to adhere to any basic standards at all. If the public does not find your service/product to be useful, they won't use it. End of story, thats how it works. It dies because it was less useful then needed. Nothing is stopping anyone from providing the crappiest fansubs in the world. The "problem" of providing a crappy service solve itself: nobody uses it. Of course if you want people to continue to use your service, or more people to use the service, you must reach whatever the average standard is for the public, or go beyond it providing a better then average service.

It just turns out in this case you are the minority which is under whatever the average standard is. It isn't applying to your standards but is perfectly fine for everyone else. Which is what you should figure out, this complaining isn't going to change anything on #gg's end. I am pretty sure they don't like people using VLC because they provide softsubs, and VLC has shitty subtitle rendering. You, the consumer, need to either choose to stop watching #gg subs or quit the bitchin and just watch them. Orrr as some other people have mentioned as well as myself, harp on VLC to provide better softsub rendering. You have no idea how much you are missing out with nice SSA/ASS formatted subtitles because you watch them in VLC. Watching the same show using mplayer or VSFilter will make a world of awesome difference.

[Arimfe]

Originally Posted by Nicholi

Orrr as some other people have mentioned as well as myself, harp on VLC to provide better softsub rendering. You have no idea how much you are missing out with nice SSA/ASS formatted subtitles because you watch them in VLC. Watching the same show using mplayer or VSFilter will make a world of awesome difference.

Yes, that's exactly the point. VLC is misrepresenting their work! They have every right on Earth to boycott this player.
It's natural for any boycotts and strikes that not everybody will be happy, but this is essentially what it boils down to, GG is one of those groups who actually does something to fight VLC's crappiness.
If anything we should be supporting them in their choice.

[jpwong]

Originally Posted by liamroy

And if you do something for free, does that mean that you're exempt from all criticism? If I volunteer at the library then run around tearing pages out of books so people can't read them, does the library have any right to complain? After all, I'm working for free.

Once you provide a service to the public domain, whether you're paid for it or not, there are a few baseline standards for conduct. And one is to not sabotage your own work out of spite.

Your analogy isn't very good. Taking that back to fansubbing that would be more akin to you being on GG staff and DDOSing anyone who trys to download their stuff.

Standards for this sort of thing are arbitrary, and fansubbing works like the free market. Poor quality is self correcting because people won't buy that product.

You also have to realize that fansubbers in concept sub for themselves, not the leech. I realize that we are in an age where many groups cater to the leecher to brag about their download counts, but that aside, they don't produce them for you. They allow you the privledge of viewing their work should you want to. The only standard they have to satisfy is their own.

This is VERY similar to when all fansub groups flipped up to XVID and abandonded DivX, and when you started to see groups release only in mkv, or only in mp4 and only in H.264 codec. All it boils down too, is that it's the fansub group's personal choice in how to release, and what platforms to release on. If they chose to release only in Mac format tommorrow, then that would be their decision, and you shouldn't complain.

Nothing's stopping anyone from creating their own fansub group to release how they want to. And in this age, that's what quite a lot of people seem to be doing. If you thing GG's product is inferior and you don't want to wait for the alternative, maybe that's your calling to hook up with a translator and start pumping out your own videos.

[liamroy]

Originally Posted by jpwong

Your analogy isn't very good. Taking that back to fansubbing that would be more akin to you being on GG staff and DDOSing anyone who trys to download their stuff.

Standards for this sort of thing are arbitrary, and fansubbing works like the free market. Poor quality is self correcting because people won't buy that product.

Ah, but we're not buying anything, are we? In order for the free market model to work, there must be some disincentive to creating an inferior product. GG has already stated that they don't care if a large portion of their viewership simply disappears.

You also have to realize that fansubbers in concept sub for themselves, not the leech. I realize that we are in an age where many groups cater to the leecher to brag about their download counts, but that aside, they don't produce them for you. They allow you the privledge of viewing their work should you want to. The only standard they have to satisfy is their own.

Yes, but they are allowing us this privilege while deliberately discriminating against a particular segment of the population. If they really were doing this just for themselves, then they wouldn't spend time and money on a web presence, or bots, or seeders, or any of the other accoutrements of a public endeavour. If you make your product available to "everyone" and then give the finger to a group of people who don't meet your arbitrary standards, that's dick. Whether they have a right to do so is not the issue. Whether it is the right thing to do is.

Of course they can boycott any player they want to. They did. They have always stated that VLC playback is not supported in any way. But boycotting a business and breaking it's windows are two different things. GG broke VLC not because it wouldn't play their subs, but because it wouldn't play their subs the way they wanted it to, and rather than letting people choose to watch their release with inferior subtitles they actively denied people the right to make that choice. If there was a video player that only rendered in grayscale, should that one be broken because it doesn't show the pretty colors? And should the people who wanted to watch it that way be prevented from watching it at all?

Nothing's stopping anyone from creating their own fansub group to release how they want to. And in this age, that's what quite a lot of people seem to be doing. If you thing GG's product is inferior and you don't want to wait for the alternative, maybe that's your calling to hook up with a translator and start pumping out your own videos.

Well, if you know a translator and a good source for the raws, I'd love to give it a go :-) Also, thank you for being civil. I enjoy conversations that don't degenerate into "STFU n00b."

[rataime]

By the way, some of us are being constructive (like trying to fix VLC), but they are clearly not. A shame.