Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 08 Discussion / Poll

[Fuyu no Sora]

Originally Posted by Estavali

I think Icarus made a good point here.

Otherwise, I think she might be trying to convey another message as well. Things don't always go as you plan, and an all-out attack that leaves you naked (so to speak) is going to kill you once things go unexpected. Note how shocked those two were when Nanoha disabled RH's Device Mode, and chose to go melee on them. They clearly didn't expect this turn of events, nor Nanoha not going "Nihaha, it's alright. We all make mistakes~" for once.

Subaru's naivety, and perhaps, even Tia's, since she actually agreed with her about Nanoha going easy on them despite the obvious problems this would cause.
Like what Nanoha said, what they were doing was no longer within training boundaries, but was something akin to "kill-or-be-killed".

The second shot was to show them what IS going to happen in real-life.

Perhaps Nanoha herself was to be blamed for being too kind to them.

Perhaps. However, when faced with a real life-threatening situation, the attacker won't use a magic-only attack. He/she will go for the kill mercilessly. If that was a real-life situation, Teana and Subaru would both be dead.

[aeriolewinters]

...looks like the Aono-hate suddenly transfers to Nanoha...


*Seriously, I really thought that Nanoha was justified... If she wasn't She would've hit Subaru too. Plus the fact that she turned Raging Heart off, If she really wanted to kill them... Excelion mode was a better choice of maiming weapon.


Amuro's proud right now.

[hikaru2895]

Anonymous 05/20/07(Sun)21:03 No.3383299
Finished watching the raw. Holy. F***.
I don't care about the pacing, or the animation, or the art. Right now, I couldn't give a sh**. This beats the everloving sh** out of any episode of Nanoha to date.

[Kha]

Originally Posted by krisslanza

... No I'm not seeing it. Unless you're implying something R Rated which we all know only happens in Yuuno's dreams. =p

The Sith Lord speaks truth. It's in the A's manga.

Originally Posted by Estavali

I think Icarus made a good point here.

Otherwise, I think she might be trying to convey another message as well. Things don't always go as you plan, and an all-out attack that leaves you naked (so to speak) is going to kill you once things go unexpected. Note how shocked those two were when Nanoha disabled RH's Device Mode, and chose to go melee on them. They clearly didn't expect this turn of events, nor Nanoha not going "Nihaha, it's alright. We all make mistakes~" for once.

Subaru's naivety, and perhaps, even Tia's, since she actually agreed with her about Nanoha going easy on them despite the obvious problems this would cause.
Like what Nanoha said, what they were doing was no longer within training boundaries, but was something akin to "kill-or-be-killed". Had they faced a real enemy, s/he would not warn Subaru about reckless maneuvers. The moment Subaru was thrown off, the opponent could have followed it up with a bind and/or a finishing blow.

The second shot was to show them what IS going to happen in real-life.

Perhaps Nanoha herself was to be blamed for being too kind to them.

True she has been pretty slack. I fear for them now

[BPHaru]

Originally Posted by krisslanza

Actually I do wonder if Satoshi (…)

First that everything, is not Satoshi, is Satashi.

Originally Posted by krisslanza

Actually I do wonder if Satoshi will be pretty close on about what happened to Nanoha... That would be most definantly highly amusing. It'd almost be like Satoshi predicted the future!
Only without the drinking and Nanoha and Fate making out before Fate went with Hayate to meet them uh, Crim was it? I forgot.

That's because the people in ivory that are in charge of the plot of this average-poor quality anime actually are reading Satashi’s fics, and maybe they even are devoted fans
Honestly, I hope all the predictions of Satashi will turn true...
And by the way, chapter 3 of 6th Division is coming out today, or maybe tomorrow.
EDIT: chapter 3 is out!

Originally Posted by krisslanza

When did Nanoha ever attack Yuuno? <_<
Never. Obviously Fate is higher up on the friendship scale then!

I’m sure Nanoha “attacks” Fate every Night during the 3 hours “strategy planning time”

Spoiler for 3 hours time with Fate-chan:

Nanoha: Sore~ Fate chan!
Fate: ahhhhh~
Nanoha: Fate-chan wasn’t expecting an attack from the rear?
Fate: That's unfair Nanoha!

-Haru

[Fuyu no Sora]

Originally Posted by hikaru2895

Anonymous 05/20/07(Sun)21:03 No.3383299
Finished watching the raw. Holy. F***.
I don't care about the pacing, or the animation, or the art. Right now, I couldn't give a sh**. This beats the everloving sh** out of any episode of Nanoha to date.

Excuse me. What the heck is that supposed to mean eh?

EDIT: Seriously? THANKS A LOT HARU!!

[Estavali]

@Fuyu's first post in this page: Point. I added this in as well to my previous post.

The fact is such: Subaru and Tia came up with a plan that had been based within the (relative) safety zone that training provides. However, such a plan would have dire consequences should they execute it in real battle (as the duo's eventual sorry condition vaguely shows).

Nanoha wants them to know this. That's what the second shot was for. Had those two come across opponents that Nanoha and Fate faced in A's (the Wolkenritter, the Liezes, and ultimately Yami no Sho), would such recklessness help them? They aren't the only ones who can come up with a sneak attack, as Shamal and the Liezes have shown. And YnS pretty much defies every known trick in the book.

Could they last long against such foes, with their current mentality?

[FlareKnight]

It all sounds like a solid understanding. It took a couple hundred posts but we may finally have Nanoha's reasoning down. Probably was to teach a valuable lesson about what can happen if you fight recklessly. Teana gets knocked out, partially due to being unstable and part to teach her what can happen if she losses control in a battle. Subaru gets the painful lesson as well, if you are stupid you may have to watch your friends get hurt or killed. Hopefully they can learn from this and not just be angry about what happened.

Going barehanded was probably to protect Teana from getting really hurt. Raising Heart can get out of hand if one isn't careful. Maybe grabing the blade and getting hurt was meant to shake them up and teach them that if the attack had connected Nanoha really could've been hurt.

Yeah the two decided to use a plan that protected them based on the relative safety of the test. But they took actions that went against the rules of that test. If your going to break the rules you should be prepared for leaving the parts that protect you from serious harm. It's probably for the best that they dealt with this. No doubt if they were fighting like this in A's they wouldn't be going to rest off the test, they'd be in a coffin.

I'm sure they won't need this, hope that Caro and Erio are going to learn from this. While they aren't taking a test any time soon it's something they should learn. Wouldn't want either of them getting blasted around to prove a point.

Nice to see that Fate and Yuuno have a good friendship. Besides I think Yuuno did a good enough job by giving Nanoha her tool of befriending.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Fuyu no Sora

Excuse me. What the heck is that supposed to mean eh?

I thinjk it just means they're extremely pleased with this ep.

And having seen the actual clip now, I have nothing else to say than what has been covered on Nanoha's motivations (and I find them very good ones), although I think this the the slickest, and the best animated battle in StrikerS since it aired. I had goosebumps as Nanoha went off the deep end in her speech

[krisslanza]

WHAT CHAPTER 3!? SWEET.
And yeah, my bad. I forgot if there was an 'o' or an 'a'.

And pshaw, in Yuuno's dreams something happened in A's... XD

But that should be mad in the relationship topic not here. I'll agree though, this episode is by far the best so far. And just from a 4 minute clip!

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

I thinjk it just means they're extremely pleased with this ep.

And having seen the actual clip now, I have nothing else to say than what has been covered on Nanoha's motivations (and I find them very good ones), although I think this the the slickest, and the best animated battle in StrikerS since it aired. I had goosebumps as Nanoha went off the deep end in her speech

Aye. What we need now is better animation/drawing to evaluate this to utmost awesomeness.

[aroduc]

Originally Posted by Estavali

Aye. What we need now is better animation/drawing to evaluate this to utmost awesomeness.

Seriously. The resolution this week was slightly better... but offset by the fact that the entire damn thing was flickering. It's hard to see in the caps, but trust me, it was irritating as all get out.

[Demon Eyes]

Originally Posted by BPHaru

First that everything, is not Satoshi, is Satashi.



That's because the people in ivory that are in charge of the plot of this average-poor quality anime actually are reading Satashi’s fics, and maybe they even are devoted fans
Honestly, I hope all the predictions of Satashi will turn true...
And by the way, chapter 3 of 6th Division is coming out today, or maybe tomorrow.
EDIT: chapter 3 is out!


I’m sure Nanoha “attacks” Fate every Night during the 3 hours “strategy planning time”

Spoiler for 3 hours time with Fate-chan:

Nanoha: Sore~ Fate chan!
Fate: ahhhhh~
Nanoha: Fate-chan wasn’t expecting an attack from the rear?
Fate: That's unfair Nanoha!

-Haru

Yes...It seems here be more Satashi fans...

I am actually close to believing you that Nanoha animators read these fics...

BTW, Nice to meet you ~Haru, I be Demon Eyes...

A friend of a fan of FxN is my Friend...Get ready for my Starlight Breaker...

I love your take on Nanoha's hitting Fate all nights but let's have some more 'rea' evidence, shall we...Chaos~?



Now THAT is befriending...

[Estavali]

Breaking the momentum for a while, it seems funny to me that only a few hours ago, we were all worried about the deadness that this episode may have.

They did a good job not revealing the juicier parts in this episode in last week's preview.

(Come to think of it, the title music was more somber than the usual one. A foreshadowing, perhaps?)

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Estavali

Breaking the momentum for a while, it seems funny to me that only a few hours ago, we were all worried about the deadness that this episode may have.

They did a good job not revealing the juicier parts in this episode in last week's preview.

(Come to think of it, the title music was more somber than the usual one. A foreshadowing, perhaps?)

I think that was a VERY smart move on their part... not much hype on the episode, and an anticipatory episode for Subaru/Teana fans. Then BAM, they drop this unexpected bombshell on us like Hiroshima

[Kha]

*waves magazine*

Yeah I never expected to get this charged from Yuuno's appeareance, or that last bit about Dark Nonaha. Looks like they do compensate for dulling things down for some angst. Next weeks gonna be anticipated, and I'm sure both the Legion and 300 are looking forward to it for news of Nanoha's injury.

*points to avatar and *

[Estavali]

Btw, about this part:

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata

Here's a quick translation of the lines at the end of the ep

Spoiler:

Nanoha: Stay still. And watch carefully.
Subaru: Nanoha-san!!
Subaru: Tea!!
Nanoha: This is the end of the mock-battle for today. You were both "shot down and terminated".

Nanoha seems to be reminding them about how Tia's brother was killed, and the sorrow and regrets that came with his death.

[dkellis]

I'm probably doing a Bad Thing by not reading all of the thread before commenting, but it's late and I'm just excited. (And tired.)

So far in my view, the infamous last scene of the episode can have two broad interpretations as follows:

Spoiler:

1) Nanoha snapped due to some incident, and lost her temper. She then used far more force than was strictly necessary to take down Teana.

The way she went all quiet and sorrowful and eerily calm sounds fairly plausible for someone who is really angry. (In fact, when I get really pissed off, I pretty much go all quiet and polite myself.) Raw emotions just get mostly shut down, and channelled into a white-hot lance of purpose that doesn't turn up on the outside except for a sort of tunnel-vision: the next thing that is deemed to be necessary will get done, and anyone/anything else in the way is just... irrelevant.

However, whether this is how Nanoha becomes really angry is unknown; we've never seen her like this in the first series or in A's. The most in A's we've seen is just her getting determined-angry, not intense-rage angry.

Speculation: maybe the much-bandied about Accident in the past where Nanoha got badly injured was due to herself getting careless. In fact, considering how much Vita went off on Teana the previous episode, I'm guessing that Nanoha's carelessness got her in the way of Vita's attack, whether training or otherwise.

A level-headed instructor could have used a Bind on Subaru and a Bind on Teana, with an option to upgrade the Bind on Teana if the latter got really frothy-mouthed. The way Nanoha slammed two attacks into Teana while Binding Subaru and telling her to "watch" means that Nanoha is probably not being level-headed as such. This is entirely plausible; the lack of reactions from the other RF6 members might be due to their not believing that Nanoha really did something like that, and just getting dumbfounded when she did.

After all, if RF6's psych profile division didn't catch Teana's self-esteem issues, I'm not sure if they would catch such a trauma (rarely-triggered?) from Nanoha's past. (I say "rarely-triggered" because I don't think anyone other than Teana would have done anything like that.)

However, her actions could also be interpreted in another way, which puts marginally less "blame" on Nanoha:

2) Nanoha is trying to send a message to Teana and Subaru, and may or may not be in full possession of her wits at the time. (I'll assume the former for this theory, that Nanoha knows exactly what she is doing and the consequences thereof; the latter is a mix between the following speculation and the previous one.)

Nanoha told Subaru to "watch", and then blasted Teana (for the second time). This meant that the message that Nanoha is sending could be towards Teana, or towards Subaru, or perhaps even both. Essentially, Nanoha is willing to be the Bad Cop in order to push her message home.

Somewhat tied in to this would be the speculation of what the message was. Some examples might be:

- "Follow orders, or people will get hurt." This can be directed towards both of them. Since Teana did not seem willing to listen to reason, perhaps Subaru could be shown the consequences instead of being the "victim" (and thus be the one to rein Teana in). Better that this happen in a mock-battle than the real thing.

- "Keep trying to kill yourself, and you might well succeed." This message seems like it might be for Teana, but would actually be obliquely directed at Subaru. Teana's tactics so far seem to be all-or-nothing, where either she wins, or she's probably going to die. So, with Teana unwilling to change her self-destructive tendencies, and Subaru not appearing to really notice this, maybe this will drive home to Subaru how close to the edge Teana is teetering.

- "If you want to fight a real enemy, I'll show you what a real enemy is like." This ties in a bit with the "If I have to be a demon to make you listen, then a demon I'll be" line from A's. Also, there may be shades of it in the above two possible messages. Basically, Nanoha is showing the two Newbies what it's like to fight someone who's well and truly serious. For example, if Teana wants to treat this as a serious battle, then Nanoha may as well oblige her.

- "Your partner's down. What will you do now?" Rather obviously for Subaru; she's seen someone she idolizes shoot down her best friend and partner in cold blood. How she reacts might determine whether she's fit for battle, since Teana obviously isn't.

Now, I speculate (without any evidence) that the truth is a mixture of the two; Nanoha is letting her personal feelings get into training, but she's also conscious of the message that she wants to send, rather than being completely blinded with emotion.

Also, we see big explosions and all that. We don't know whether Nanoha had actually pulled her punches.

Well, that was a rather depressing rush (contradictory as it may seem). I think I'll go watch some Lucky Star to get my good humour back.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

I think that was a VERY smart move on their part... not much hype on the episode, and an anticipatory episode for Subaru/Teana fans. Then BAM, they drop this unexpected bombshell on us like Hiroshima

They really did a great job in surprising everyone. Making the preview look one way and then hitting us hard with what happens in the test. I think that's a good way of calling it since it was just that massive. Throw in the preview and it was a real shock of an episode.

Well I think dkellis's first theory really examples what everyone was going through when this episode first hit us. Nanoha snapping and really beating Teana beyond what was necessary. We really went through a lot with much hot headed arguing back and forth. It really was helpful when we got a translation from when Nanoha caught the attacks.

The second part is a bit closer to what people are thinking. Nanoha was sending a message, a tough one. Fighting like they were in real combat would get you killed. It's sad since we saw through this episode how hard Nanoha was working to train them, but when the test came they through that away and went in foolishly.

It was probably a mix of being upset and sad from what they were doing. Those two failed the first test because they were reckless. So Nanoha spends all this time training them and when they get a second chance they show that they learned absolutely nothing except how to bring forth stronger attacks.

It'll probably be helpful to read through the thread since a lot of the reasoning has been brought forward. But it is impressive how you came to some of these conclusions just on your own. Have fun getting cheered up via Lucky Star.

[Fuyu no Sora]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

It all sounds like a solid understanding. It took a couple hundred posts but we may finally have Nanoha's reasoning down. Probably was to teach a valuable lesson about what can happen if you fight recklessly. Teana gets knocked out, partially due to being unstable and part to teach her what can happen if she losses control in a battle. Subaru gets the painful lesson as well, if you are stupid you may have to watch your friends get hurt or killed. Hopefully they can learn from this and not just be angry about what happened.

Going barehanded was probably to protect Teana from getting really hurt. Raising Heart can get out of hand if one isn't careful. Maybe grabing the blade and getting hurt was meant to shake them up and teach them that if the attack had connected Nanoha really could've been hurt.

Quite true. Also I think Subaru's lesson was harder than Teana's because for her it's a psychological lesson, not physical. Those almost never leave your mind.

Originally Posted by Demon Eyes

Yes...It seems here be more Satashi fans...

I am actually close to believing you that Nanoha animators read these fics...

BTW, Nice to meet you ~Haru, I be Demon Eyes...

A friend of a fan of FxN is my Friend...Get ready for my Starlight Breaker...

I love your take on Nanoha's hitting Fate all nights but let's have some more 'rea' evidence, shall we...Chaos~?



Now THAT is befriending...

It's been so long since a fellow NxF believer came back to us .

Originally Posted by Kha

*waves magazine*

Yeah I never expected to get this charged from Yuuno's appeareance, or that last bit about Dark Nonaha. Looks like they do compensate for dulling things down for some angst. Next weeks gonna be anticipated, and I'm sure both the Legion and 300 are looking forward to it for news of Nanoha's injury.

*points to avatar and *

Nanoha Taisen will NOT restart. We're doing fine without them and we've got a nice post count while being on topic. Let's leave it that way.