AnimeSuki Forums

144M_HYPERION · 2003-11-05, 17:33

Calm down Crimson ...

Different ppl will have different point of views ... can't argue with that ...

Let's just say Mitsuki do things for both herself and Takayuki. There is no right or wrong in this love relationship. You guys have to understand that Mitsuki also carries the burden of the past as well. She is also depressed about what happen to Haruka, but yet she continues to help Takayuki for the past 3 years. She also goes thru a lot of tough situations thoughout those years as well.

So is it really nice to call names and put the blame on her???

IMO

that's a big nono

GUTB_ · 2003-11-05, 20:06

LOL.

I don't hate Mitsuki. She's human. But lets get real, she made a grab at Takayuki because she wanted him. We know this as a fact because she SAYS SO!

A freind is concerned and does what she can to help. Someone in love throws away her education and devotes all her free time to someone else.

A freind provides emotional support. Someone in love tries to give you everything humanly possible and then some.

A friend wants you to get better. Someone in love wants you, and you getting better is something she'll worry about after, because all she can think about is having you.

It's not like Mitsuki was hitting on him the whole time. She was very studiously repressing her emotions in order to be a friend. She got trapped in a crappy job, and could think nothing else to do with her spare time but give it all to Takayuki -- she did so because she was in love. She hid those feelings and pretended it was just friendship for a year, and was doing this even before Haruka hooked up with him. She always loved him, but always hid it.

But after the hospital event, she had her long-suffering emotional barriers worn thin and they broke wide open. She made a grab, and it worked. Far from being overcome with guilt, she seemed "back to normal" immediately afterwards, skipping work to cut her hair and to be with him. To say that she was desperate to snap him out of it is to be seriously off-base with her character. She showed weakness and made an open grab, that's all.

KendoFoxx · 2003-11-05, 20:26

I don't think anyone has been back to normal since the accident. She still harbors the guilt of the accident and she only cut her so she could start a new with Takuyuki. If it weren't for Miyuki, I doubt Takuyuki would be around to have even seen Haruka wake up.

tem · 2003-11-06, 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by KendoFoxx

I don't think anyone has been back to normal since the accident. She still harbors the guilt of the accident and she only cut her so she could start a new with Takuyuki. If it weren't for Miyuki, I doubt Takuyuki would be around to have even seen Haruka wake up.

I completely agree. I see alot of people saying that Mitsuki should have done this, should have done that, but honestly, it's alot easier said than done. She's a very realistic character IMO. I know that when/if my best friend says she likes a guy, he automatically becomes off limits. That's just how it is, period, paragraph. Mitsuki seemed to just be following that rule. It's easy to say she should have confessed back then, but there's also the thing of hurting your friend. Haruka seemed very sensitive, so I'm sure that it would have hurt her to know she was competing with her best friend. Mitsuki just thought she was strong enough to keep it inside, therefore .

I generally agree with the comments that Mitsuki has acted selfishly, but humanly. I won't say more, since this whole post is pretty redundant. I just had to say something, even though I'm nearly 5 pages late.

Durandal · 2003-11-06, 14:18

Besides, Haruka was in a coma for a year before she even did anything. If she didn't let her feelings out she may have gone off the deep end just like Takayuki.

GUTB_ · 2003-11-09, 21:45

Bumping this poll up for episode 6.

Somehow she comes over less than guilty in her relationship with Takayuki. Except if being guilty for taking your best friend's boyfriend consists of having sex with him on the floor in the middle of his apartment.

Twice.

Itachi · 2003-11-10, 01:49

May she burn in hell!!1!!!!!!j/k. ehhh...option 3.

kj1980 · 2003-11-10, 15:40

Well, the point that the game makes, in reference to the endings, was that "shit happens, and once fate looks down upon you, everything is shatterred...and nothing is more bristle than human social relations" NOTE: I will use the term "shit happens" repeatedly as I do not believe in "fate."

Come now people, wake up. These things happen in everyday life. As a Japanese, I am shocked to see you Americans going over such minor details about how Mitsuki is a bitch or not. No Japanese person who is watching this would ever think of that way because we know this is part of life. Mitsuki at fault for taking Takayuki's time which inadvertedly caused Haruka's accident? Oh come on!! That's like saying "if Hitler hadn't been rejected to the art school in Vienna, the Nazis wouldn't have risen to power." It's not Mitsuki's fault, it's not Takayuki's fault, it is basically "shit happens."

When "shit happens," it can have a huge impact on people's lives.

Mitsuki going into self-depression, believing that she caused her best friend to get into an accident by taking Takayuki's time. She quit her advanced glory in swimming (filled with sports scholarships to Hakuryo University) part from her own self-guilt, and part from seeing Takayuki becoming a "haijin" (Japanese term for "socially-and-emotionally-disabled-person" due to a traumatic event and/or more recent term, hermits who don't go outside and play net-games all day). Mitsuki knows she loves him, and could stand to bear watching Takayuki falling further down the emotional trap. Besides, a little bit of cultural info, in Japan, it is NOT UNCOMMON that some people would commit suicide when such a traumatic experience occurs...and the moment she saw Takayuki delusional about taking Haruka to the story-book festival, she knew that if she does not do something, he is endangering his own life. Albeit the decision that she made to give herself to Takayuki may be questionable to you Americans, but for us Japanese, it is conceivable. It's probably a cultural thing...

Takayuki - not much explanation needed here...he quit his attempt to go to Hakuryo University, became a "haijin," saved from self-pittance by Mitsuki, began to revive his spirit, took his first step to the "real world" at the SkyTemple Restaurant, made new social contacts....then Haruka wakes up. Again, his world is turned upside down (albeit not as dramatic as the previous event, but still...) which he is indulged in a invisible tug of war with his emotions with Mitsuki and Haruka. On the one hand he has the girl who saved him from almost-apparent suicide. On the other, he has the girl who he had vowed eternal love which unfortunately ended abruptly due to the thing called "shit happens."

Haruka - the girl who had a crush on Takayuki from the first year of Hakuryo Hiiragi Gakuen. Weak, shy, and timid. Got together with Takayuki with Mitsuki's help, though at first got off at the wrong start, was leading to a great relationship...until it ended abruptly. Three years has passed, she wakes up, does not know three years of her life went missing. A minor detail that is not written into the anime storyline is how a person who wakes up from a coma is actually in a state of semi-shock for several months, and that doctors and visitors have to take specially attention not to induce a larger shock (in this case, not telling her that three years has passed) to the patient. Since she is in a state of semi-shock, she does not recognize that everyone seems to have aged a bit, that her own hair is long and braided, nor realize that Mitsuki cut her hair. Her vision is broadly confined to what matters the most - her love with Takayuki and studying for the University exam. It is quite interesting how detailed the softhouse, age, went through to incorporate coma-induced patient treatment in the game. Enough of the minor details, Haruka will begin to realize what occurred, and goes through several stages - from blaming herself, then blaming the world, trying to reconcile with Takayuki, etc. In a desperate attempt to reclaim her lost time she emerges from being a weak and shy person to a strong-willed person. In a sense, "shit happens" changes peoples lives...for the better as well.

Akane - the other oftenly overlooked heroine, which has a HUGE fan in Japan. Haruka's sister, who also fell victim to "shit happens." In her case, her sister got into a coma, saw how Takayuki becoming mentally disturbed, Mitsuki quitting her swimming, etc. In a sense, she is a witness that sees everyone's lives being changed. In addition, she sees Mitsuki with Takayuki when her sister needs him the most. As a result, her character also steers away from the joyful and cheerful girl that she was in middle school to someone who looks at the world as a harsh place...a "cool" (as in cold) and calm wind, yet with a gust which can pick up at any time. Until she opens up in the fan-disc game Akane Maniax, her take on the world is exhaust, and tries not to believe in anyone nor anything. Yet at the same time, she herself is splitting apart for seeing Takayuki going through what he went through during Haruka's coma; going through the stages of worrying about him, trying to understand him, then a bit of jealousy. In other words, she is not so different from Mitsuki...the only difference was her choice to not do anything, while Mitsuki did. Which then splits herself even more apart as she sees Mitsuki with Takayuki, which she cannot stand for the cause of Haruka...but for her own feelings as well. What she angrily says to Mitsuki is practically telling herself as well why this is wrong...why this should not be...which tears herself even more. In the end, she is just going to break.

Mentar · 2003-11-10, 16:53

kj1980: Excellent sober analysis to which I can subscribe to a huge extent. I just want to mention that it may be a cultural thing, but not necessarily so. Being a German (and therefore a westerner) myself, I can confirm that you CAN think like this even if you DO come from a different cultural background.

I think it's a matter of age and life experience, and as well the ability to relate to what you so wonderfully labeled "shit happens". I could, and this probably altered my perception too.

Key Board · 2003-11-10, 17:22

The problem is the audience range of the anime is broader than the original game's audience.

Granted, Kiminozo is a late night series intended for an older target audience, but recent technology advances such as fansubs has strected that line.

As such there are younger, emotional and more vocal people among the audience.

That in turn triggers the more level headed people to be emotional as well, and chain reaction continues.

This is where all the "Is Mitsuki the devil or not" arguments come from among other things.

lordwu · 2003-11-10, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board

That in turn triggers the more level headed people to be emotional as well, and chain reaction continues.
This is where all the "Is Mitsuki the devil or not" arguments come from among other things.

I don't see this as a bad thing. It's good to see people drawing upon their experiences and debating on the characters in the anime. This anime intended to spark debates on real-life issues. How to deal with relationships with people around someone who's in vegitated state? Is T+M going out betrayal or fighting for survival? Can one get the future he or she wished for?

Key Board · 2003-11-10, 18:12

True... arguments are food for the mind.

But...

I believe Kj is referring to the "Mitsuki iz teh suxx00rz" type of outburst instead of the "I don't agree with Mitsuki's methods because..." arguments.

u&t · 2003-11-10, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board

I believe Kj is referring to the "Mitsuki iz teh suxx00rz" type of outburst instead of the "I don't agree with Mitsuki's methods because..." arguments.

Ahh, but please don't forget this is a discussion forum and things here won't reflect peoples RL opinions. It's easy (and fun!) to get up on some high horse and blast a virtual character. The "d00dz u suxx" crew just haven't mastered the finer arts of trolling yet

GUTB_ · 2003-11-10, 19:18

Well, everyone's characterization is very human. You could see Mitsuki as the agressor -- deciding she wants what her friend wants -- but at the same time she is wholly sympathetic. She was a traitor, but because of that she has been wracked with so much guilt and emotional pain that she has become brittle of heart. The American view of such a character is that she would become a villan, and hide her weakened emotional state behind a wall of false strength and cruelty so that her damaged ego can compensate for it's failings with a sense of domination and being in control of her surroundings.

Actually, I think it'd be fun to see her turn into a proper vilaness. She would say right back to Akane: "You want me to suffer more? You've mistaken me for yourself, kiddo. I'M going home to MY boyfriend tonight, so you can just sit here and cry with your sister over being the losers! Hahahaha!"

But, that's not a human being, and the writer of this script is very clearly trying to tell a human story. So it's impossible to see Mitsuki as a villan, because she is not -- just a flawed person like everyone else in the series.

View Poll Results: What do you think of Mitsuki?
She's a great friend, hiding her true feelings all this time in order to help out her pals!	13	14.13%
She has a good heart, but she couldn't cope with trying not to show her feelings.	50	54.35%
She's a traitor, but you sympathize with her. Akane is right to hate her guts, though.	8	8.70%
She's a selfish girl who's deluded herself into thinking she's not doing anything wrong.	6	6.52%
She's a backstabbing bitch and a slut who doesn't deserve to call Haruka a friend!	15	16.30%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

2003-11-10, 17:22	Link #70
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	The problem is the audience range of the anime is broader than the original game's audience. Granted, Kiminozo is a late night series intended for an older target audience, but recent technology advances such as fansubs has strected that line. As such there are younger, emotional and more vocal people among the audience. That in turn triggers the more level headed people to be emotional as well, and chain reaction continues. This is where all the "Is Mitsuki the devil or not" arguments come from among other things. Last edited by Key Board; 2003-11-10 at 17:34.

2003-11-05, 17:33	Link #61
144M_HYPERION Miracle Yang !! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Iserlohn Fortress Age: 41	Calm down Crimson ... Different ppl will have different point of views ... can't argue with that ... Let's just say Mitsuki do things for both herself and Takayuki. There is no right or wrong in this love relationship. You guys have to understand that Mitsuki also carries the burden of the past as well. She is also depressed about what happen to Haruka, but yet she continues to help Takayuki for the past 3 years. She also goes thru a lot of tough situations thoughout those years as well. So is it really nice to call names and put the blame on her??? IMO that's a big nono

2003-11-05, 20:06	Link #62
GUTB_ Senior Member Join Date: May 2003	LOL. I don't hate Mitsuki. She's human. But lets get real, she made a grab at Takayuki because she wanted him. We know this as a fact because she SAYS SO! A freind is concerned and does what she can to help. Someone in love throws away her education and devotes all her free time to someone else. A freind provides emotional support. Someone in love tries to give you everything humanly possible and then some. A friend wants you to get better. Someone in love wants you, and you getting better is something she'll worry about after, because all she can think about is having you. It's not like Mitsuki was hitting on him the whole time. She was very studiously repressing her emotions in order to be a friend. She got trapped in a crappy job, and could think nothing else to do with her spare time but give it all to Takayuki -- she did so because she was in love. She hid those feelings and pretended it was just friendship for a year, and was doing this even before Haruka hooked up with him. She always loved him, but always hid it. But after the hospital event, she had her long-suffering emotional barriers worn thin and they broke wide open. She made a grab, and it worked. Far from being overcome with guilt, she seemed "back to normal" immediately afterwards, skipping work to cut her hair and to be with him. To say that she was desperate to snap him out of it is to be seriously off-base with her character. She showed weakness and made an open grab, that's all.

2003-11-05, 20:26	Link #63
KendoFoxx Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Age: 42	I don't think anyone has been back to normal since the accident. She still harbors the guilt of the accident and she only cut her so she could start a new with Takuyuki. If it weren't for Miyuki, I doubt Takuyuki would be around to have even seen Haruka wake up.

2003-11-06, 14:18	Link #65
Durandal Insane AI Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Colorado Age: 41	Besides, Haruka was in a coma for a year before she even did anything. If she didn't let her feelings out she may have gone off the deep end just like Takayuki.

2003-11-09, 21:45	Link #66
GUTB_ Senior Member Join Date: May 2003	Bumping this poll up for episode 6. Somehow she comes over less than guilty in her relationship with Takayuki. Except if being guilty for taking your best friend's boyfriend consists of having sex with him on the floor in the middle of his apartment. Twice.

2003-11-10, 01:49	Link #67
Itachi Master of the Sharingan Join Date: Nov 2003	May she burn in hell!!1!!!!!!j/k. ehhh...option 3.

2003-11-10, 15:40	Link #68
kj1980 Gomen asobase desuwa! Join Date: Nov 2003 Age: 43	Well, the point that the game makes, in reference to the endings, was that "shit happens, and once fate looks down upon you, everything is shatterred...and nothing is more bristle than human social relations" NOTE: I will use the term "shit happens" repeatedly as I do not believe in "fate." Come now people, wake up. These things happen in everyday life. As a Japanese, I am shocked to see you Americans going over such minor details about how Mitsuki is a bitch or not. No Japanese person who is watching this would ever think of that way because we know this is part of life. Mitsuki at fault for taking Takayuki's time which inadvertedly caused Haruka's accident? Oh come on!! That's like saying "if Hitler hadn't been rejected to the art school in Vienna, the Nazis wouldn't have risen to power." It's not Mitsuki's fault, it's not Takayuki's fault, it is basically "shit happens." When "shit happens," it can have a huge impact on people's lives. Mitsuki going into self-depression, believing that she caused her best friend to get into an accident by taking Takayuki's time. She quit her advanced glory in swimming (filled with sports scholarships to Hakuryo University) part from her own self-guilt, and part from seeing Takayuki becoming a "haijin" (Japanese term for "socially-and-emotionally-disabled-person" due to a traumatic event and/or more recent term, hermits who don't go outside and play net-games all day). Mitsuki knows she loves him, and could stand to bear watching Takayuki falling further down the emotional trap. Besides, a little bit of cultural info, in Japan, it is NOT UNCOMMON that some people would commit suicide when such a traumatic experience occurs...and the moment she saw Takayuki delusional about taking Haruka to the story-book festival, she knew that if she does not do something, he is endangering his own life. Albeit the decision that she made to give herself to Takayuki may be questionable to you Americans, but for us Japanese, it is conceivable. It's probably a cultural thing... Takayuki - not much explanation needed here...he quit his attempt to go to Hakuryo University, became a "haijin," saved from self-pittance by Mitsuki, began to revive his spirit, took his first step to the "real world" at the SkyTemple Restaurant, made new social contacts....then Haruka wakes up. Again, his world is turned upside down (albeit not as dramatic as the previous event, but still...) which he is indulged in a invisible tug of war with his emotions with Mitsuki and Haruka. On the one hand he has the girl who saved him from almost-apparent suicide. On the other, he has the girl who he had vowed eternal love which unfortunately ended abruptly due to the thing called "shit happens." Haruka - the girl who had a crush on Takayuki from the first year of Hakuryo Hiiragi Gakuen. Weak, shy, and timid. Got together with Takayuki with Mitsuki's help, though at first got off at the wrong start, was leading to a great relationship...until it ended abruptly. Three years has passed, she wakes up, does not know three years of her life went missing. A minor detail that is not written into the anime storyline is how a person who wakes up from a coma is actually in a state of semi-shock for several months, and that doctors and visitors have to take specially attention not to induce a larger shock (in this case, not telling her that three years has passed) to the patient. Since she is in a state of semi-shock, she does not recognize that everyone seems to have aged a bit, that her own hair is long and braided, nor realize that Mitsuki cut her hair. Her vision is broadly confined to what matters the most - her love with Takayuki and studying for the University exam. It is quite interesting how detailed the softhouse, age, went through to incorporate coma-induced patient treatment in the game. Enough of the minor details, Haruka will begin to realize what occurred, and goes through several stages - from blaming herself, then blaming the world, trying to reconcile with Takayuki, etc. In a desperate attempt to reclaim her lost time she emerges from being a weak and shy person to a strong-willed person. In a sense, "shit happens" changes peoples lives...for the better as well. Akane - the other oftenly overlooked heroine, which has a HUGE fan in Japan. Haruka's sister, who also fell victim to "shit happens." In her case, her sister got into a coma, saw how Takayuki becoming mentally disturbed, Mitsuki quitting her swimming, etc. In a sense, she is a witness that sees everyone's lives being changed. In addition, she sees Mitsuki with Takayuki when her sister needs him the most. As a result, her character also steers away from the joyful and cheerful girl that she was in middle school to someone who looks at the world as a harsh place...a "cool" (as in cold) and calm wind, yet with a gust which can pick up at any time. Until she opens up in the fan-disc game Akane Maniax, her take on the world is exhaust, and tries not to believe in anyone nor anything. Yet at the same time, she herself is splitting apart for seeing Takayuki going through what he went through during Haruka's coma; going through the stages of worrying about him, trying to understand him, then a bit of jealousy. In other words, she is not so different from Mitsuki...the only difference was her choice to not do anything, while Mitsuki did. Which then splits herself even more apart as she sees Mitsuki with Takayuki, which she cannot stand for the cause of Haruka...but for her own feelings as well. What she angrily says to Mitsuki is practically telling herself as well why this is wrong...why this should not be...which tears herself even more. In the end, she is just going to break.

2003-11-10, 16:53	Link #69
Mentar Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg Age: 54	kj1980: Excellent sober analysis to which I can subscribe to a huge extent. I just want to mention that it may be a cultural thing, but not necessarily so. Being a German (and therefore a westerner) myself, I can confirm that you CAN think like this even if you DO come from a different cultural background. I think it's a matter of age and life experience, and as well the ability to relate to what you so wonderfully labeled "shit happens". I could, and this probably altered my perception too.

2003-11-10, 18:12	Link #72
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	True... arguments are food for the mind. But... I believe Kj is referring to the "Mitsuki iz teh suxx00rz" type of outburst instead of the "I don't agree with Mitsuki's methods because..." arguments.

2003-11-10, 19:18	Link #74
GUTB_ Senior Member Join Date: May 2003	Well, everyone's characterization is very human. You could see Mitsuki as the agressor -- deciding she wants what her friend wants -- but at the same time she is wholly sympathetic. She was a traitor, but because of that she has been wracked with so much guilt and emotional pain that she has become brittle of heart. The American view of such a character is that she would become a villan, and hide her weakened emotional state behind a wall of false strength and cruelty so that her damaged ego can compensate for it's failings with a sense of domination and being in control of her surroundings. Actually, I think it'd be fun to see her turn into a proper vilaness. She would say right back to Akane: "You want me to suffer more? You've mistaken me for yourself, kiddo. I'M going home to MY boyfriend tonight, so you can just sit here and cry with your sister over being the losers! Hahahaha!" But, that's not a human being, and the writer of this script is very clearly trying to tell a human story. So it's impossible to see Mitsuki as a villan, because she is not -- just a flawed person like everyone else in the series.