2012-08-08, 16:19 | Link #81 | |
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2012-08-08, 17:24 | Link #82 | |
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Age: 41
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But, by the same token... if you're going to take that approach, it seems a bit like blaming the person who created the weapon rather than one who wielded it. It's true that the author of the game is the one who created the condition where death in the game is equivalent to death in real life, and it was in his power to change the rules of the game. But, by the same token, if not for the action of the player, the person would not have died. So I don't think it's quite like he's saying he will kill people who lose matches, he provided the tools that allow people to kill each other by proxy if certain (known) conditions are met. I'm not sure if this is a good analogy or not... but let's say someone is in hospital on life support. If someone were to go in and disconnect the power from the life support system, the patient would die because that's what's keeping him or her alive. Similarly, the HP in this game are like "life support" for all the players; everyone is at least aware that when that gauge hits zero, they disappear from the game never to return, and they are told that if they can stay on life support long enough (until the game is cleared) they'll make it out alive. So, if someone takes a deliberate action that "disconnects someone's life support", they have some responsibility for the death. That said, I guess you could say that the game creator is the one who "caused the injury" that put them on life support in the first place.
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2012-08-08, 17:29 | Link #83 |
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Age: 52
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Ah, but the thing is that there's also a state of infinite resources (as we see in episode one, monsters respawn shortly after they are killed) and an unlimited time factor (there's no mention of a time limit before everyone fries). Every player death reduces the chance that someone will clear the game, ergo it's a case of shooting yourself in the foot just because you're bored (which, in my experience, is the usual reason people PK).
I wouldn't be surprised if the laws would change over the course of time between when the game starts and it ends (either everyone dies or someone clears the last boss).
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2012-08-08, 17:36 | Link #84 | ||
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As I mentioned before, I expect things will be very very quiet on the "RW legal response to PK'ing" front until a week or so after people get out.. when the inevitable "oh yah, my friend was killed by this other guy"... then the shit hits the fan, but for laws? Any new laws implemented at that point would be akin to closing the barn down after the horse has left, and someone else burned the barn down. Quote:
Hard to say considering Asuna and Kirito stopped working on the front lines in response to the 'murder in a safe area' case and the little snippets from their conversation about sleep PK. Too little information has been presented in the anime to-date. Let's not discuss this here, it's rather off-topic. |
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2012-08-08, 17:59 | Link #85 |
18782+18782=37564
Join Date: Sep 2010
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I'm also interested as to how would the PKs themselves react when they learned that those they PK really did die when they came out of the game.
Is it realistic to think that, unable to withstand the burden of guilt, some of them will eventually confess to the authorities? How would these people be processed then?
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2012-08-08, 18:01 | Link #86 | |
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Age: 48
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2012-08-08, 18:04 | Link #87 | |
18782+18782=37564
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I don't really see a possible scenario of these players being convicted. Most likely all the blame will go to Kayaba and most likely all the victims' (even the dead ones) families would be satisfied by that.
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2012-08-08, 21:07 | Link #89 | |
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Age: 37
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Last edited by Clarste; 2012-08-09 at 00:46. |
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2012-08-09, 00:31 | Link #91 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2012-08-09, 00:40 | Link #92 | |
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I can imagine some of the SAO players genuinely preferring life in SAO over their real life. Presumably PKers are at least somewhat good at the game, to the point that they can collect in-game money and item drops with some efficiency and without too much threat to themselves. With that money, they can buy houses, live somewhat comfortably, and live lives where they don't have to go to school or work as a salaryman. Some may have found a "system" whereby a few hours per day of safely farming weaker-level monsters earns them enough money to buy the food they want and "live" where they want. Such farming may be a bit boring, but they might consider it preferable to the real world alternative (going to school, university, or to an office-job). Also, some PKers may enjoy a degree of power, if not prestige, in the game that they don't enjoy in the real world.
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2012-08-09, 01:00 | Link #93 |
Truth Martyr
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I'd just like to chime in with a few thoughts, particularly as, as far as I can see, I'm the only person here who studied criminal law. I'll be using the British perspective, as that's what I studied.
For a murder charge to be sustained, the prosecution needs to prove two elements: actua rea and mens rea. Actus rea is the act that lead to the death, while mens rea is the guilty mind/mental state of the accused (motive is a subset of mens rea and is used to establish it). Now, the mens rea may be easier to,prove. I'm simplifying a great deal here, but one of thethings looked at is the intent to cause bodily harm. If that can be shown and proved, 85 percent of your mens rea is done. Another question the courts will ask is whether the accused PKer was aware that an ingame death would be IRL fatal - this could go either way, but I'd suggest that Kayaba's opening statements would be persuasive in establishing that yes, PKers knew death was a possibility. Actus rea is iffy. Prosecution needs to prove a chain of events, starting with ingame PK and ending with brain fried with microwave. Server logs will help in this regard, if they exist. F prosecution can prove, for example, that PoH killed V ingame (with server logs as evidence), and that the NervGear fried V after the PK was performed, and prove PoH had the intent to cause death or grievious bodily harm, they've got their case nailed shut. If they can't quite prove murder, it would be possible dor the to get a charge of manslaughter, as server logs would prove the identity of the killers. If the interpretation is that the SAO company enabled these PK to happen, the company may not face criminal charges, but would certainly be liable under tort for all deaths incurred - even if Kayaba acted alone, he enacted his plan while an employee of the company and on company time. They're vicariously responsible for him. On the subject of shutting off life support, doctors and nurses are not liable for manslaughter or murder if it can be proved that it would not be in the patient's best interest to remain hooked up, particularly if they were in a persistent vegitative state. If the patient is in PVS due to injuries incurred by someoneattempting to kill thrm, that person would face charges - if they hadn't tried to kill the patient, the patient would not be injured, and would not have entered a coma. This all, of course, assumes they're being tried as adults. You mean psychiatric evaluation. Physiology is the study of living things and how the body works.
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2012-08-09, 01:26 | Link #94 |
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Age: 37
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I've studied a bit of criminal law (US), and I'd say they're guilty of reckless manslaughter at most. They knew there was a high risk of death, but decided to do it anyway. However, they only knew of a "risk". It's difficult if not impossible to prove that they intended someone to actually die, rather than a virtual avatar to shatter in front of them.
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2012-08-09, 01:32 | Link #95 | |
Moe Kyun~!
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
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Anyway, I've never understood how PKer's minds work that much, but isn't it that they actually liked "killing", and, whether they believe that dying = death (the extremely summarized version of people die if they are killed (online) ) or not, it should at least show in psychiatric evaluations or tests... Also, it's a safe assumption that <<SAO>> has a publicly accessed building that determines who is dead and living. (It's on Episode 1, anyway.) I'd also like to present another way to get evidence against the PKers, but I think I should wait for the episode named "Morning Dew Girl" first.
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2012-08-09, 01:39 | Link #97 |
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There is one important factor that's being overlooked. If player deaths aren't recorded in the server logs (and if I were Kayaba, I'd be just enough of a bastard to do it) then proving PK is going to be impossible (as it's not like the victim can take a screen print for later proof).
There's also the expectation that Kayaba is going to be around after it's all over. If I were him, I'm make myself the final boss that has to be cleared....
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2012-08-09, 02:54 | Link #98 | |
Truth Martyr
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2012-08-09, 03:09 | Link #100 |
Moe Kyun~!
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
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[mod edit: removed conversation thread involving novel hint]
It's most likely going to end that way, unfortunately. More legal blames would be placed on the Creator, while the other PKers will just roam free and try simulating the feel of being the god of life and death in some other MMO or place again ... and get arrested for it. (of course, I'm talking about the crazy ones)
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-08-09 at 09:26. |
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