2009-02-27, 13:33 | Link #901 |
Udon-YAAAAAAAA
Join Date: Jan 2008
Age: 35
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yeah. i don't know if Orb signed the treaty, since it would seem that only the Alliance and ZAFT signed it. and it doesn't even matter, since you can hardly say that Kira is part of Orb when he uses Freedom again. he's basically a private citizen who fights for his own beliefs.
I have no problems bringing Kira and Freedom back. I greatly like Kira and Freedom is one of the best MS designs in recent years. |
2009-02-27, 15:17 | Link #903 | |||
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Ehmmm.......if you read the whole traty carefully, the Orb is part of it. The treaty includes on how the Otb receives their EA occupied region back. Like I said, that treaty is between the aerth as whole (all the nations in earth) and the Plant. BTW, aside from delpoying the Freedom, none of you guys care to reply on the fact that the first clause in the treaty which is the use of the NJC in MS has been broken with the existence of the Freedom itself. This is what I consider as the "guilty" action of Kira and co. considering that they clearly broke the treaty by preserving Freedom way before the war broke down. p.s.: I don't dislike the GSD. I just want to point out this fact since it just flashed out on my mind. for some reason. Quote:
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2009-02-27, 17:36 | Link #905 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
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As far as Kira’s side is concerned it shoulda been Gundam SEED JUST-US!!!
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2009-02-27, 17:46 | Link #906 | ||
Inglourious Buster
Join Date: Dec 2007
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2009-02-27, 17:47 | Link #907 |
Goat Herder
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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Uh, before you guys go any further about bashing the Infinite Justice and Strike Freedom because of the treaty... keep in mind that both of those mobile suits had the same kind of power reactor as the Destiny and the Legend.
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2009-02-27, 18:02 | Link #909 | ||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Oh, and by the way, apparently Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice were stolen from Durandal, so he gets the blame if you want to complain about that one. Quote:
There's no real similarity aside from the fact that they're both female and blond.
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2009-02-27, 18:07 | Link #910 |
Udon-YAAAAAAAA
Join Date: Jan 2008
Age: 35
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fair enough. AA did operate under orb, but i think thats only because they had Cagalli aboard for it. plus it would be too easy to make them not associated with anyone, because without AA, Orb would have been toast anyways.
by strongest government, do you mean by military might? because i would hardly say that Cagalli is a good leader, and ZAFT has Lacus in charge, which i would take over Cagalli in charge any day. then in terms of military, ZAFT has basically every ace except for Athrun and maybe Mwu, i don't remember seeing him at the end of destiny plus in military dress. |
2009-02-27, 18:28 | Link #911 | |
Retweet Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
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So yeah they saved an island full of whiners (Orb) at the expense of perhaps stopping war forever by just giving people jobs (IF THAT's WHAT THEY WANTED)...Dully was gonna save far more lives in the end...
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2009-02-27, 18:57 | Link #912 | |
Your wife is hot...
Join Date: May 2008
Location: At your house fixing A/C
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how about arthrun being bill clinton where both of their partners cheats |
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2009-02-27, 19:00 | Link #913 | |||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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This is theoretically true of a lot of "Master Plans", but that doesn't mean that they will work or that they are a good idea.
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2009-02-27, 19:04 | Link #914 | ||||
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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The problem with this justification is that it allows people to do anything as long as their purpose is deemed "good" (i.e. the end justifying the mean). Let's just take the most extreme example: an assasin A is planning to kill an inncoent person B & C. Using this justification, it means that if you kill A, then you won't be charged a murder ? That's why I said that regardless of whatever the reason is, both Kira & co. and Djibril clearly violate the treaty. It is a simple as that: for instance, if you put Djibril in a prison for 5 years for violating the treaty, then Kira & co will have to face similar ocnsequence. Of course since Djibril also did other bunch of "evil" stuffs, then he will serve the time longer. Quote:
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2009-02-27, 19:50 | Link #915 | |
KLAC OF THE ANIME WORLD
Join Date: May 2007
Location: gs series
Age: 34
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besides where is the honor & yet it was to give fans maybe some thanks for those 25yrs in 04 by giving what the fans want. (i'm watching ya all if ya do it again on gundam 30)
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2009-02-27, 19:53 | Link #916 | |||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Well, Lacus was acting as the fleet commander, and contributed roughly half the troops, so I'd say that she played a bigger role than Orb and Cagalli did.
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It's not an assumption; it's a general observation - large-scale militaries and brand-new military infrastructure and hardware don't exactly build themselves. Eileen Canaver left office long before the start of Destiny, and we don't know what her opinions were on the likelihood of the peace holding. It doesn't really matter either, since to think that this likelihood was high would make her as naive as Cagalli anyways.
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2009-02-27, 21:22 | Link #917 |
Retweet Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
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Funny you say this, which means Freedom-slashing this master-plan is neither an idea that would ultimately work or that Lacus' clan doing this is indeed a good idea...And that's why GSD failed, because in the end the "good guys" didn't have 1 good idea...Dully's idea (for however flawed it was), was a choice people could have made...It was atleast an idea to end war, but due to terrible plotting and characterization he's a madman who flipped-out just because he wanted to get people a job, LMAO...With the premise of such an unstopple 1% of the world (Orb) against him, and 2 pilots and 1 karaoke singer having the ability to destroy entire universes, he went batty in the end...Who could blame him?
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2009-02-27, 23:12 | Link #918 | |||
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Take Somalia as an example, they have an on-going civil war for almost a decade right now. The war never stop because everytime, someone will break the treaty/negotiation. It is not small matter: a sin is still a sin no matter how small it is. If everytime the idea of " the end justify a mean" is used, the world will always be in chaos. Quote:
Take an example in the WWI treaty where sometimes you only have two side (allied and axis) but it involves a lot of country. Quote:
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2009-02-28, 01:09 | Link #919 | ||||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Would it necessarily suceed though? Lacus herself seems to be both optimistic and cautious on that one, so I wouldn't call it just yet. There's certainly a lot of potential for further violence, and all the parties seem to be aware of this. Quote:
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There aren't any details about what the Junius Treaty was supposed to do, but it probably went something like this. If neither party developed NJC-equipped warheads, then both could ease off on the amount of anti-nuclear defenses, which in turn meant that neither side had to build as many nuclear weapons to deal with those defenses, and so on. The same thing goes for Mirage Colloid weapons and countermeasures. This was an absolute farce because the first thing every party did, even the isolationist Orb, was to arm to the teeth beyond even the Cosmic Era 71 levels. And of course, we saw stuff like the Nuclear Stampeder deployed long before Freedom was pulled out of mothballs.
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2009-02-28, 01:57 | Link #920 | |||||
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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What I am talking about is not whether you will get punished or not. Heck, you can steal/shoplift in the supermarket and you will not get punished as long as nobody knows. But it still doesn't make you escape the fact that you already sin Quote:
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The point is that everytime the treaty is broken, it likely results in either all out war or diplomatic tension or better yet cold war. Just take an example the current Nuclear treaty in the real world and how difficult it is when NATO declares the treaty is invalid when you have general war or when India refused to sign the treaty in Asia region. That's why our world is always in conflict over and over again. Quote:
It can't be clearer than that, no matter how you try to avoid this point. This steps is basically for the nuclear weapon disarmament. It is quite similar with the real world version where onbe of the mainsteps is to "create someday the conditions for a halt to the production of nuclear weapons, and treaty on general and complete disarmament that liquidates, in particular, nuclear weapons and their delivery vehicles from national arsenals" (wikipedia). Once more, you are mostly arguing the point of deploying the Freedom. However, the existence of the Freedom itself is the most controversial issue down here due to the use of NTC in the MS. Like I said before, I don't mind if Kira and co for some reason want to have their own army. However, they should destroy the Freedom after the GS since its existence means that they already break the Junius treaty (which BTW is meant to preserve the overall peace ). Kira and co. can achieve the same pupose if for instance Kira decided to get the Murasame (or insert any other battery-powered MS) instead. Hence, in that essence, Kira and co. is not better than Djibril since they are among the first who broke the treaty regardless whether other sides knew or not. p.s: This is the supporting argument on how the "good side" in GSD is not that different from other. Kira and co. preach about peace and now you have a "peace" treaty after the war and congratulation....they are the one who broke it right away. If they are really serious about preserving peace, they really ought to think about some other method instead of rebuilding the Freedom again. Last edited by coba; 2009-02-28 at 02:25. |
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