(CR) 86 TV anime

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

I thought they explained themselves pretty clearly in the episode. If they just sat back and took it easy, letting someone else take all the risk and do all the fighting, they'd consider themselves no better than the white pigs. It's not resignation. It's pride.

And like it or not, they are the best choice for this crazy mission. Shin knew it from the moment they described it to him.

Originally Posted by Twi

The 86 have nothing but their pride. They make that clear a number of times. They won't sit down and let someone else do the fighting for them. That's the tragedy of what happened to them because that means they'll likely never find peace, and they don't accept pity or one-sided sympathy well either.

I get why they feel that way, but to be honest it comes off like they're barely really living and can't really fathom what it means to live outside the battlefield and not in a life-or-death situation. Even after leaving the Eighty-Six sector it's all they really know, and they can't leave that behind them.

Even Shin, their Reaper, is finally starting to crack with nothing keeping him going but guilt and not knowing what else to do with himself. It's why Frederica is so terrified he'll become another Kiriya.

Their pride is an excellent motivator and I can understand why they don't want to seem weak or like the Republic, but it also feels like armor trying to hide how traumatized they really are.

[Kanon]

The story doesn't focus much on the others but I think they all feel empty and guilty after everything they've gone through.

But yeah, I guess things with the Federacy aren't so black and white. It was mostly the soldiers giving the 86 the evil eye that irked me, them being sent on a suicide mission makes sense pragmatically. It's exactly as they said: they're the ones with highest chance of succeeding and the only ones who won't be missed by anyone, making them the perfect choice.

[Yazi88]

Its PTSD with these 86 survivors.

Even when they were "relaxing" in the Federacy, we can still see them being haunted by their past. Especially during the military parade.

They know the severe threat of the Legion and they cannot be at peace while the Legion slowly making advances, despite the efforts of the Federacy.

[BBOvenGuy]

The next episode is delayed by the much-dreaded "production issues." Instead, we get a "visual commentary" episode, whatever that is.

[Yazi88]

It also does not count as a numbered ep, like the special after the last ep of season 1.

Sometimes these things happen. If it means they need more time to animate stuff, so be it.

I can wait a extra week. Production values on this show is great.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

The next episode is delayed by the much-dreaded "production issues." Instead, we get a "visual commentary" episode, whatever that is.

A "visual commentary" is code for recap episode. We'll get clips from past episodes with character voicing over them about what happened up until this point in the story. Happens whenever a show gets hit with production problems.

[carmolita]

I expected this to happen, there goes my hope for an anime-only episode The anime is true to the novel for the most part and the remaining material of this book is action based/ action packed, they can finish it in another 3 or 4 episodes tops. They really can't include much if any info from book 4 because it's another arch. I can't wait to see how this all plays out. I enjoyed seeing the side characters animated because I finally got to see them in action and was glad to see Shinden and Shana animated.
If they choose to continue the series they have all the important and side characters animated.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Kanon

But yeah, I guess things with the Federacy aren't so black and white. It was mostly the soldiers giving the 86 the evil eye that irked me, them being sent on a suicide mission makes sense pragmatically. It's exactly as they said: they're the ones with highest chance of succeeding and the only ones who won't be missed by anyone, making them the perfect choice.

It's mostly just the commander and a few envious soldiers. I can't really find faults in the old man in their squad or their captain, nor I can find any faults in the president.

How old are exactly the main characters, BTW? Because in our world the Geneva convention establishes that enlisting 15 year old or younger persons as soldiers is a war crime.

[sierra117]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

How old are exactly the main characters, BTW? Because in our world the Geneva convention establishes that enlisting 15 year old or younger persons as soldiers is a war crime.

Around 18-19

[Ghostfriendly]

"Responsibility without power; the position of the (female) eunuch through the ages." - Sir Humphrey Appleby, Yes Prime Minister

When an anime's female characters have more rank and power than the male lead, but are stripped by circumstance of any meaningful plot impact and left to wring their hands, you've got a certain type of anime. When they're characterised as crippled by emotional fragility, enthralled by a guy with a harem, morally compromised and/or the ultimate in weakness and indignity, a bratty child...then you most certainly have a trashy male wish fulfilment mecha series.

The two mecha pilot girls are schoolgirls-next-door with crushes rather than hardened soldiers, the team mom and tsundere who again have no notable will independent of the male lead. The heroine's 2nd season wardrobe change is a perfect example of the toxic superficial empowerment used in stories like this; her private personality is fragile as ever, and her public shows of resolution nothing but show, with less impact on the plot than ever. If she does save the day at the end, this will conflict entirely with the rest of the show, and not redeem it in the least.

Furthermore, the male at the centre of this fantasy is another 'ideal Japanese man' in the cool, calm know-it-all author's pet mould of Inaho from Aldnoah.Zero and those other chumps from Iron Blood Orphans/Classroom of the Elite etc. Many years after the novel and manga of Battle Royale satirised this ideal in the dispassionate, all-talented psychopath Kiriyama. In terms of light novel male wish fulfilment, this is the hard stuff; the indulgently tragic hero who is always right and always at the world's centre. There are some strengths of presentation that make this anime watchable, but the all-important characters are terrible as so many anime are these days.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

"Responsibility without power; the position of the (female) eunuch through the ages." - Sir Humphrey Appleby, Yes Prime Minister

When an anime's female characters have more rank and power than the male lead, but are stripped by circumstance of any meaningful plot impact and left to wring their hands, you've got a certain type of anime. When they're characterised as crippled by emotional fragility, enthralled by a guy with a harem, morally compromised and/or the ultimate in weakness and indignity, a bratty child...then you most certainly have a trashy male wish fulfilment mecha series.

The two mecha pilot girls are schoolgirls-next-door with crushes rather than hardened soldiers, the team mom and tsundere who again have no notable will independent of the male lead. The heroine's 2nd season wardrobe change is a perfect example of the toxic superficial empowerment used in stories like this; her private personality is fragile as ever, and her public shows of resolution nothing but show, with less impact on the plot than ever. If she does save the day at the end, this will conflict entirely with the rest of the show, and not redeem it in the least.

Furthermore, the male at the centre of this fantasy is another 'ideal Japanese man' in the cool, calm know-it-all author's pet mould of Inaho from Aldnoah.Zero and those other chumps from Iron Blood Orphans/Classroom of the Elite etc. Many years after the novel and manga of Battle Royale satirised this ideal in the dispassionate, all-talented psychopath Kiriyama. In terms of light novel male wish fulfilment, this is the hard stuff; the indulgently tragic hero who is always right and always at the world's centre. There are some strengths of presentation that make this anime watchable, but the all-important characters are terrible as so many anime are these days.

I mean, I think the show is leaning fairly well into the idea that Shin isn't doing pretty well mentally and that, for all his effectiveness at fighting the Legion, it ultimately isn't doing wonders for his mental health.

Kurena has a crush on Shin but Anju's role plays more into the group dynamic than, say, Shin. Raiden's more of a team mom anyways.

Lena is still Lena at the end of the day but she has a much firmer resolve and willingness to do what needs to be done for a better end for everyone.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by sierra117

Around 18-19

I think Kurena and Theo are younger than that. Remember, they needed 5 years or so to get on Spearhead Squadron since they would be killed off by then, and both Kurena and Theo both look and act younger than the others, so they're probably around maybe 16 at present at the most.

And I think the Geneva convention went out the window in this world.

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by Frontier

I mean, I think the show is leaning fairly well into the idea that Shin isn't doing pretty well mentally and that, for all his effectiveness at fighting the Legion, it ultimately isn't doing wonders for his mental health.

Kurena has a crush on Shin but Anju's role plays more into the group dynamic than, say, Shin. Raiden's more of a team mom anyways.

Lena is still Lena at the end of the day but she has a much firmer resolve and willingness to do what needs to be done for a better end for everyone.

Shin's mental health has as little significance as Lena's resolve. Her contributions are pitiful in relation to her status and screentime, her decisions aren't made by a character but an idealised female heart created for male gratification, and her agency to direct the plot is non-existent. She isn't meaningfully the deuteragonist; Shin is the sole protagonist who directs the plot, saves the day and pays no price in terms of his mental health at all. It doesn't reduce his combat effectiveness or restrict his movements, it doesn't drive him to drink or destroy his relationships; everyone he cares about loves him. He's certainly not going to die before he finally saves the day. He exhibits as much emotion that we can sympathise with over his repeated bereavements as black plastic; an essential feature of his character type that makes it useless for anything but wish fulfilment and 'genius' that moves the story in whatever direction a lazy writer intends.

Credit where it's due, the interactions of the Spearhead platoon are one of the better parts of the series. The bad parts are just so much more glaring and representative of poor light novels and anime. Lena is a blatant female stereotype of the walking, talking heart made to serve and care for males, while Shin represents the toxic ideal of competence alone putting one man above all other men.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

Shin's mental health has as little significance as Lena's resolve. Her contributions are pitiful in relation to her status and screentime, her decisions aren't made by a character but an idealised female heart created for male gratification, and her agency to direct the plot is non-existent. She isn't meaningfully the deuteragonist; Shin is the sole protagonist who directs the plot, saves the day and pays no price in terms of his mental health at all. It doesn't reduce his combat effectiveness or restrict his movements, it doesn't drive him to drink or destroy his relationships; everyone he cares about loves him. He's certainly not going to die before he finally saves the day. He exhibits as much emotion that we can sympathise with over his repeated bereavements as black plastic; an essential feature of his character type that makes it useless for anything but wish fulfilment and 'genius' that moves the story in whatever direction a lazy writer intends.

Credit where it's due, the interactions of the Spearhead platoon are one of the better parts of the series. The bad parts are just so much more glaring and representative of poor light novels and anime. Lena is a blatant female stereotype of the walking, talking heart made to serve and care for males, while Shin represents the toxic ideal of competence alone putting one man above all other men.

I mean, they're both the leads of the show so I think ultimately the important factor driving the story is their personal arcs and how they each interplay with each other in said arc. Cour 1 was about Lena's growth through her interaction with Shin (and by extension the rest of Spearhead), while cour 2 is focusing more on Shin's away from her.

I can't see how she isn't a proper Main Heroine when they all would be dead by now if not for her.

Shin is a really cool Mecha pilot but would anyone really want to be in his shoes? I don't see how he's wish-fulfillment at all knowing what he's been through and all the guilt and self-hate he seems to be carrying around. Fighting the Legion is the only thing he has going for him, and he can't really see a life for himself beyond that. None of them can, and that's why they can't really help him.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

Shin's mental health has as little significance as Lena's resolve.

As a war story, the mental state of soldiers is part of the significance of the story, I'd say.

It doesn't reduce his combat effectiveness or restrict his movements,

Aside from the fact that it drives to try to kill himself on the battlefield.

Lena is a blatant female stereotype of the walking, talking heart made to serve and care for males, while Shin represents the toxic ideal of competence alone putting one man above all other men.

Lena is at her best when she's unlearning all the toxic crap her society feed her and all the shitty justifications her family and friends were using.

[sierra117]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

Shin's mental health has as little significance as Lena's resolve. Her contributions are pitiful in relation to her status and screentime, her decisions aren't made by a character but an idealised female heart created for male gratification, and her agency to direct the plot is non-existent. She isn't meaningfully the deuteragonist; Shin is the sole protagonist who directs the plot, saves the day and pays no price in terms of his mental health at all. It doesn't reduce his combat effectiveness or restrict his movements, it doesn't drive him to drink or destroy his relationships; everyone he cares about loves him. He's certainly not going to die before he finally saves the day. He exhibits as much emotion that we can sympathise with over his repeated bereavements as black plastic; an essential feature of his character type that makes it useless for anything but wish fulfilment and 'genius' that moves the story in whatever direction a lazy writer intends.

Credit where it's due, the interactions of the Spearhead platoon are one of the better parts of the series. The bad parts are just so much more glaring and representative of poor light novels and anime. Lena is a blatant female stereotype of the walking, talking heart made to serve and care for males, while Shin represents the toxic ideal of competence alone putting one man above all other men.

Lena’s role doesn’t look that significant because this arc sole focus was Shin and co. Originally her screen times in this arc was probably around 10% at best, most other scenes of her in the anime was extra anime original, we need to wait for the next and later arcs to see how significant Lena‘s role is for Shin’s character building and development and flr the whole plot itself

[Jan-Poo]

To me it's quite evident that Shin isn't at all the kind of character that the male audience generally identifies with.

Rather, he's the archetypal cool, brooding character, but slightly unhinged and somewhat broken, that a certain female demographic likes.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by sierra117

Lena’s role doesn’t look that significant because this arc sole focus was Shin and co. Originally her screen times in this arc was probably around 10% at best, most other scenes of her in the anime was extra anime original, we need to wait for the next and later arcs to see how significant Lena‘s role is for Shin’s character building and development and flr the whole plot itself

Lena's significance this arc is in her absence and the effect that has on Shin as much as it is her trying to fight for the Republic against hopeless odds.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

To me it's quite evident that Shin isn't at all the kind of character that the male audience generally identifies with.

Rather, he's the archetypal cool, brooding character, but slightly unhinged and somewhat broken, that a certain female demographic likes.

I really am starting to see the point that Asato secretly wrote 86 as a Shojo romance when you think of the character dynamics between Shin and Lena .

[Twi]

I finally did my review. Here are the changes:

Spoiler:

This episode covers the majority of Volume Three, Chapter 6. It doesn't cover the whole thing, but as the anime has reinterpreted events or displaced them for greater narrative impact, I'll abstain from covering those unless they don't pop up. So here's what we do have:

• In the opening of Chapter Six, it showed Nina receiving the word of her brother's death. At first, she thought it was simply the military delivering a letter for her and her aunt, as they often do. They really rub it in how he had left for the military six months ago and it had been a month since she last saw him, but she always got his letters. This time was different, to say the least.
• When Frederica asked if Shin would become like Kiri, he answered that he wouldn't become like the Legion. The fact that wasn't what she meant went over his head pretty much showcased he wasn't grasping that she meant him coming unhinged like he was before he became Legion, as they discussed prior.
• Since they knew about Shin's ability after he explained it just before the bombardment, they called him to tell which direction the attack came from so they could return fire. That's why they knew where to shoot the missiles given how expensive they were to produce and how useless they were due to GPS Satellites and guidance systems being jammed by the Legion. The missiles were mostly shot down but one got close enough to deal damage thankfully and buy them time.
• During the exposition with Ernst, it mentioned that when the Federacy took over Giad and the Legion started fighting them, all the researchers responsible for the initial creation of the Legion were likely assimilated into them. That explains why the Legion can constantly reproduce and develop new technology, but also why Giad couldn't develop weapons on par with the Legion.
• He also confirms that if Shin's ability had been known to them given the sheer range of it early on, they probably would have never let him or the others return to the battlefield. Chances were they would have placed them in a research facility. He blames himself for being a bad guardian that he couldn't be relied on and so he doesn't blame Shin for hiding it.
• The reason they could have the meeting with the two other kingdoms was that the Legion's retreat reduced the jamming area, allowing for them to communicate remotely via holograms. Both of the other sides put San Mongolia on blast for allowing their dead soldier to be taken by the Legion (every other nation has a policy against this) as the commanding units that have increased intelligence had become evident to them.
• Shin spent time working with a Field Officer who tried to get him to take a break from helping them to analyze the Legion. During this time they discussed how people of Shin's bloodline (pyropes), espers who developed telepathy, were often recruited for reconnaissance and interrogation work. There were several of them working alongside them in fact, since their ability gets around the jamming.
• The Federacy has a policy of giving away information to the public, so they were informed about the attacks as they happened. That was the only way for the democracy to work and, to their credit, it prevented a widescale panic. In contrast to San Mongolia, who literally didn't say a thing about what was happening until the Legion knocked on their door.
• Marcel was a classmate of Eugene back when they were in secondary school, even before they joined the Special Military Operation. He spotted Nina at the hospital, who was still looking for him there because she couldn't accept that they only returned a closed box to his aunt (a coffin) and thought he might be there. Marcel acknowledged that Shin shooting Eugene in the head prevented his body from being harvested at the time, but it left Nina unable to say goodbye to him properly. The fact that he did it without a second thought didn't help.
• So when Nina asked why Marcel didn't save Eugene, he pinned the blame on Shin without thinking. It was also at this point he realized why the Republic shifted the discrimination onto the Eighty-Six as, when people were faced with the unfair and unreasonable, they shifted the blame so they didn't have to deal with their helplessness. That same mindset later shows up when the others eventually give Shin and the others the suicide mission.
• It turned out that many of the soldiers around Shin's group's age and terms of service had been sent back to the rear line after the large-scale offensive. Part of the military's duty is to maintain their soldier's mental health, so if they asked they would have gotten put back.
• Shin had kept the fact that the Republic had likely fallen last week from the others, which was part of what was eating at him when he thought about how he was always the one left behind. Everyone he knew or got close to died. She begged him not to leave him behind, and yet she left him behind.
• When the letter came in through Shin's door, he originally thought it was from people sending him letters of pity and well-meaning like they constantly did. However, he noticed that this one wasn't opened which was a standard military procedure for security, meaning that someone in the military delivered it directly to him. It was then that he read Nina's name on it and read the two lines, which allowed him to immediately figure out it was Marcel using that little girl's words to basically call him a murderer.
• It wasn't the first time he was asked why he didn't save someone against the Legion. Even back on the battlefield with the Eighty-Six, he had gotten used to the blame that he survived when others didn't. But this time he heard not only Nina's voice but Eugene's, which left him to question why he was allowed to survive when Eugene had someone waiting for him and yet he died. Raiden then came up and spotted him wearing the same look he had on his face as when he was getting ready to fight his brother (aka looking to die).
• The full scope of the mission is explained in better detail, as not only will the strike force have to deal with the Morpho but they would have to hold the terminal until the main forces arrived. And considering the Legion had more than 100,000 units in the Western Front alone with all of them being competent, it was a suicide mission. He did justify it as they needed units light enough to airdrop, which the main units aren't, and have experience with fighting in circumstances where they would be cut-off from the supply line and communications and tracking the Morpho's position. The Reginleifs and Shin met all those criteria.
• Wenzel immediately called them out as trying to use Shin's unit instead to draw the Morpho and Legion's attention so they could so they can push ahead with the main force to get close enough to do another saturation missile strike, hopefully exhausting their anti-air fire prior. The Major General states that happens to be an insurance policy rather than denying it, but someone has to do it and they have no alternative.
• Part of the reason that the rumors about them being monsters have spread was due to those who saw them fighting on the Western Front. Fearlessly facing the enemy with an almost intoxicating bloodless when they had nothing to protect contrasted the normal military, who stifled their fear and fought on because they had people to protect. That difference led them to see them as either being insane or on par with monsters, especially Shin who was born of two of the most powerful members of their noble bloodlines in the Onix (Martial Prowess) and Pyrope (Psychometry).
• Shin and the others had nothing to fight for but the dignity of fighting and the pride of it, as they lost their culture and traditions, and home and family. So when Wenzel attempted to let Shin and the others back out, she effectively shattered the trust that Shin and the others had in the Federacy because it would take the last thing they had left. They were effectively being asked to surrender their identities, no different than being dead while still being alive, and at least taking on the mission they were being allowed to choose to do it this time rather than at gunpoint by the Republic.
• Since Wenzel didn't make eye contact with Shin during the meeting was enough to tell the others that he snapped at her for offering them a way out. They still acknowledge the Federacy was better than the Republic, but being the most expendable of their military does leave them feeling ostracized. They still preferred to live on the battlefield as monsters because their pride is all they have.

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by Endscape

As a war story, the mental state of soldiers is part of the significance of the story, I'd say. It drives him to try to kill himself on the battlefield.

And yet he does not die. His friends, wife and children don't leave him, he doesn't turn to drink, he's still the only hero, which is all that matters, because he was never a human character, only wish fulfilment. This show has an effective sense of post-destruction melancholy and a strong anti-genocide message. Traumatic detachment is even decently expressed by the rest of Spearhead, but not Shin, because Marty Stus, war or no war, never have any connection to real humanity. Real wars are not fought by lone heroes with greater understanding than all the generals and greater strength than all the armies; Shin, Lena and the princess resoundingly sink this story from a war drama to yet another bad mecha anime.

Shin's suffering does not disqualify him as a wish fulfilment character; it is almost essentially that such a character should suffer greatly on the reader's behalf, so that they may identify with the indomitable hero who has so endured. I still prefer the flawed, fallen Slaine Troyard over the meaninglessly unfailing Inaho, and again, won't care about the mental health of a Marty Stu until it has material consequences, if then.

Lena is at her best when she's unlearning all the toxic crap her society feed her and all the shitty justifications her family and friends were using.

Lena doesn't have any character development. She knows from the start that genocide is wrong, and spends more time mooning about that effectively doing anything because that's the kind of useless heroine she is. Saving the protagonist's life can be done by the most plot-insignificant and worthless character, as it was here (though there are worse heroines out there than Lena), and the help she gives Spearhead comes out of nowhere because she's spent too much time mooning to work for it. I've said before that her S2 redesign is not development, and any greater role she takes in future will not develop from her role so far, but conflict with it. She's not the kind of damsel in a tower that I'd care to have a greater role in any case.