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Old 2009-08-19, 15:32   Link #141
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
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26.6% in 2007.
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Old 2009-08-19, 15:58   Link #142
iLney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Its hard to take people seriously who scream "Keep the government out of my Medicare." and other such stupidity.
Lol, that's a good one

But seriously, if they really want the government out of their Medicare literally, they should be listened
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Old 2009-08-19, 19:15   Link #143
yezhanquan
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And what happens when they can't foot their bills? When they're desperate, they will appeal for government help.
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Old 2009-08-19, 19:29   Link #144
autobachs
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
And what happens when they can't foot their bills? When they're desperate, they will appeal for government help.
Appeal for gov help? That's the last ting an american would do.
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Old 2009-08-19, 21:18   Link #145
yezhanquan
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Originally Posted by autobachs View Post
Appeal for gov help? That's the last ting an american would do.
So, they would actually take responsibility when things go wrong? Kudos to them if that's the case.
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Old 2009-08-19, 21:23   Link #146
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autobachs View Post
Appeal for gov help? That's the last ting an american would do.
How...naive.

Americans want government help. What they don't want is government regulation. That one comes with the other is the "problem."
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Old 2009-08-19, 21:28   Link #147
Hage-bai
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Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
As for US public health, I believe it is in a critical stage.
Does anyone know the percentage of people that categorized as chronically obese in the US?
Irrelevant. A mindset change is needed to prevent rising obesity. If government healthcare in the U.K is used as a model, then rising obesity in that country is not mitigated by universal access to healthcare.
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Old 2009-08-20, 09:25   Link #148
Tri-ring
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Originally Posted by Hage-bai View Post
Irrelevant. A mindset change is needed to prevent rising obesity. If government healthcare in the U.K is used as a model, then rising obesity in that country is not mitigated by universal access to healthcare.
And how do you plan on creating this nation-wide movement to promote a change in mindset?
Governmental intervention is required to do anything massive of this scale and would also require some kind of incentives to move fat people's arse.
The government also requires to consider it since obesity hiders national productivity rate.
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Old 2009-08-20, 15:11   Link #149
Hage-bai
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Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
And how do you plan on creating this nation-wide movement to promote a change in mindset?
Governmental intervention is required to do anything massive of this scale and would also require some kind of incentives to move fat people's arse.
The government also requires to consider it since obesity hiders national productivity rate.
If I had a plan or capital to promote a change in mindset I would be a rich person indeed. Nevertheless, a better question would be how does the government intend to shift the rising obesity rates? Lets hear their plan before we authorize them 10x the money they actually need to pull it off. And an even better question, that is actually RELEVANT to our current predicament: How does healthcare reform as proposed for the United States help reduce rising obesity rates? Bear in mind universal acess to post-symptomatic healthcare and preventative health knowledge could be treated as seperate things.

Obesity discussions are not relevant to the current proposed universal healthcare reform although definetly an important issue in its own right. This issue should be addressed by the government seperately through preventive teaching, school curriculum changes etc.

Last edited by Hage-bai; 2009-08-20 at 15:21.
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Old 2009-08-20, 19:34   Link #150
Vexx
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Frankly, I'd probably put Arnold in charge of a national health and fitness mandate rather like we had in the 1960s... instead of being fit to "compete with the Soviets", the drive would be to improve our global competitiveness by reducing our health disaster. Part of that would include daily fitness in K-12 but it would have to permeate the community (e.g. "its patriotic to be fit" ...)
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Old 2009-08-22, 20:14   Link #151
Tri-ring
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hage-bai View Post
Obesity discussions are not relevant to the current proposed universal healthcare reform although definetly an important issue in its own right. This issue should be addressed by the government seperately through preventive teaching, school curriculum changes etc.
Actually it does since the state will become a direct stakeholder of each citizen's health since the state is paying part of the bill if national health insurance is realized.
The government will become more serious about their citizen's health like providing free annual health check-ups and health education to the public.
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Old 2009-08-23, 16:53   Link #152
OutPhase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
In our National Day Rally Speech, our PM noted that on, average, the US system spends 5-7 times our average, with poorer results. Seriously, things are broken.
Yeah we kinda suck that way. We pay the second most for our health care system per capita, and yet ranked only 37 for the best system, and since this is a pretty old statistic, I would be betting that our position is even lower than that now.

And to think, some people want to preserve this broken health care system and complain about how they don't want to pay for the coverage of others when we have been doing that for over two years now for Iraq.That's right. We pay for UHC in Iraq, but not our own country. Such great priorities the United States has.
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Old 2009-08-31, 09:57   Link #153
Vexx
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Here's an interesting article which shows how information can be misrepresented or the wrong questions asked in polls:
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...edName=topNews

The headline says one thing: "Americans more confident on healthcare"
The first few paragraphs, if you read carefully, let you know that the poll asked about their confidence levels -- NOT what actually happens (whether they are actually able to pay costs or get treatment without having to wait for an opening). It doesn't ask whether this confidence is based on any actual experience.

The next few paragraphs finally admit that this confidence is only felt by people who HAVE insurance and then only those who made MORE income than average.

And finally (7 paragraphs in), they give some details about the methodology and fully explain that they weren't polling *reality* but for *expectations* which are entirely unrealistic when you look at actual HMO practices.

This is one example of how much smoke and mirrors the discussion is trapped in. (Note: most newspaper readers rarely read much more than the headlines and the first 3 or 4 paragraphs. Articles are written with this in mind).
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Old 2009-09-01, 00:23   Link #154
Hage-bai
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Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
Actually it does since the state will become a direct stakeholder of each citizen's health since the state is paying part of the bill if national health insurance is realized.
The government will become more serious about their citizen's health like providing free annual health check-ups and health education to the public.
Britain has had the NHS since WW2. Apparently the British government has not yet figured out how to curb rising obesity rates even though it is in their best interest to do so. The solution to this problem is not so simple as to nationalize healthcare.

Plus you don't need to nationalize healthcare to provide health education, modify the school curriculum and do all the sorts of preventive measures that keep people from having to visit a GP in the first place.
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Old 2009-09-01, 09:09   Link #155
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Frankly, I'd probably put Arnold in charge of a national health and fitness mandate rather like we had in the 1960s...
lol, how about getting someone whos idea of working out dosen't involve an injection to the ass? He still denys the full extent of his usage to this day, so seeing him as a roll model is kinda laughable. Only thing funnier would be him being the head of a antidrug campaign since he loved his dope
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Old 2009-09-01, 12:53   Link #156
Vexx
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True enough.... well, someone who'd be a good spokesman and motivator, but Arnold has the sort of forceful "do this now!!!" attitude that over-rides piddling facts sometimes
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Old 2009-09-01, 14:49   Link #157
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
True enough.... well, someone who'd be a good spokesman and motivator, but Arnold has the sort of forceful "do this now!!!" attitude that over-rides piddling facts sometimes


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Old 2009-09-02, 23:35   Link #158
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
mandate health insurance could work if there is enough competition. unfortunately unlike property insurance, there are very very few health insurance companies, i did check on health insurance prices for myself a few years and all companies (blue cross, pacific care, atena and health net) i check had pretty much the same coverage for the same rate. unlike auto insurance where premium could vary a much as 50%.
I never really understood the idea of "competition" for insurance.

What is insurance? For the consumer, it's paying into a pool along with others to generate a super fund. That fund comes to your aid when you're in big trouble and generate expenses that go beyond your ability to pay them, as long as the trouble corresponds to what the insurance pool is supposed to cover. The pool goes to any paying member's aid.

In order for the insurance pool to be successful, it needs enough funding. This can be accomplished by raising the amount that members need to pay in, by increasing the number of paying members, or both. However, increasing the number of members also increases the number of people covered, which increases the amount that the pool needs to pay out, as well. The pool must be self-sustaining.

When I think of "competition" I think of lower prices and better ability (for insurance, greater coverage). Cellphone companies and the like can manage that - they're maintaining infrastructure anyway (those are their payouts), and taking on more customers just means investing a bit more in the infrastructure to support them. Yet for insurance companies, more customers means potentially more expenses. To decrease prices and/or increase coverage is detrimental, not only to the insurance company's profits but also to the health of the money pool.

Thinking of it that way, how effective can competition really be? Insurance companies will always have the same general goals of maximizing profits, and that is done by increasing the cash flow in (higher prices; more "desirable" members, e.g. members who probably won't require cash from the pool) and decreasing the cash flow out (making it very restrictive to get money out of the pool; not allowing "undesirable" members to join the pool).

If anything, it seems to me that heavy competition would lead to some companies going bankrupt while others grew much larger and more powerful. We'd end up in a situation not much different than we're in now, if not worse.
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Old 2009-09-02, 23:43   Link #159
solomon
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One problem for prospective voter is to find out the best place to get all the facts.

One would think to look at it from the medical perspective, but even that has caveats. Addmittedly I am a little complacent cause my insurance runs till I am 26 (some military deal) and I haven't been paying attention to town halls cause they are basically like internet forums in the RL run buy old people. There was no reason Arlen Specter should have got the drubbing he got in Western PA without even speaking first.

Honestly, why aren't people protesting and marching against the private, corporate interests mucking up the system?
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Old 2009-09-03, 00:53   Link #160
Vexx
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Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Honestly, why aren't people protesting and marching against the private, corporate interests mucking up the system?
Actually there's a fair amount of that.... but guess what, they're well-behaved. Doesn't make for gnarly news bites.
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