What makes a "chuuni" anime?

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

That would be like saying a fujoshi doesn't have authority on defining what yaoi is. But okay, let's say it doesn't.

No it isn't the same at all, because Yaoi has only one defining trait for the genre in its entirety and no one even question it considering how straightforward it is.
Chuuni is another matter considering you have a very different take of the term depending if it is applied on persons/characters and setup/stories.
Also, the term itself is only defined by a broad definition that can involve other genres or plot parts for itself.

In any case, the term is often used left and right in the same broad sense than the other terms I've mentioned, hence why relying on "fans" of the genre is dubious at best considering it is hard to consider any authority from someone who isn't even part of the said audience (as in the very japanese netizens using that slang term), and even the latter is a bit trigger happy with the use of such word.

Imho, its original definition is all it takes to define a series or a character, but yet again, it is still quite murky for certain series.

[Moroboshi-kun]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Chuunibyou centred series hardly share similar themes and narrative structure than NGE.

Shinji is weeping wimp even his father hates for lacking any guts, but he still can drive bigass robot to save the world, and even he messes up with that everybody loves him in the end.

That is archetypal chūnibyō-theme and plot structure.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Moroboshi-kun

Shinji is weeping wimp even his father hates for lacking any guts, but he still can drive bigass robot to save the world, and even he messes up with that everybody loves him in the end.

That is archetypal chūnibyō-theme and plot structure.

Archetypal? not really considering barely no chuunibyou series follow such pattern, and likewise, NGE hardly follow chuunibyou pattern.

1) Shinji is nothing special. He doesn't have any defining "super ability trait" or anything. His sole trait is that he is the only one that can pilot Eva01 and that's because of the eva itself, not because Shinji is "anything special".

2) Shinji is often portrayed as a victim and martyr in NGE. He is not a driving force that lead to a "wishful thinking" or "heroic" image unlike most protagonists in a chuuni series. Hell, Shinji is the embodiement of "the guy you really don't want to be" type of character. Whereas chuuni characters are the exact opposite: those are the usual "average guy" who suddenly get gifted something special to the point they are inspiring for other characters and the audience.

3) NGE plot hardly portrays eva piloting as anything close to superpower or "superior trait" whatsoever.

4) NGE theme and all is nothing close to most chuuni series.

And so forth.

I don't think a lot of chuuni series follow NGE pattern whatsoever, and I don't even recall japanese calling NGE chuuni by any stretch of imagination.
The mere presence of "teen piloting a giant robot to save the world" is hardly something that would mean it is chuuni, unless you are arguing that series like gundam and TTGL are also chuuni.

[Yui Is My Wife]

Chuuni is most often embodied in active physical representations of hamminess

IE. The flamboyant pose.

For examples of such flamboyance, witness definitive Chuuni poses struck in

Images

large pics

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Pocari_Sweat]

The last pose is by far the best

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Moroboshi-kun

As a term chūnibyō is pretty much exactly characterized by strong inferiority complex and lack of self-esteem.

As this is so far apart from normal healthy person it makes only common sense that they are attracted by completely different type of entertainment as well, which makes them separate target audience for anime producers too.

When you understand this basic concept you also understand why e.g. NGE is so divisive show. Some part of audience (chūnibyō) love it to bits, normal shōnen-audience was so disgusted that some sent even death threats to Anno.

Lolwhut.jpg

Originally Posted by Moroboshi-kun

Shinji is weeping wimp even his father hates for lacking any guts, but he still can drive bigass robot to save the world, and even he messes up with that everybody loves him in the end.

That is archetypal chūnibyō-theme and plot structure.

Lol


Well...you know what they say... A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Perhaps "authority" is too strong a word? I can't come up with a decent substitute to describe it though. My interpretation of the genre might not be fully correct, but at least I'm pretty sure it's less wrong than Eisdrache's.

Even if that were true it wouldn't change that it's still wrong.

Also about the genre, while it may or may not be only imaginary like I stated earlier, however it is certainly closely tied to pretentiousness and delusions.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

1) Shinji is nothing special. He doesn't have any defining "super ability trait" or anything. His sole trait is that he is the only one that can pilot Eva01 and that's because of the eva itself, not because Shinji is "anything special".

Originally Posted by Klashikari

2) Shinji is often portrayed as a victim and martyr in NGE. He is not a driving force that lead to a "wishful thinking" or "heroic" image unlike most protagonists in a chuuni series.

Is having a super ability trait a chuuni characteristic because it makes the viewer (or perhaps other characters in the show) think [fantasize] how it would be to have that trait themselves? I believe 'wishful thinking' sums up the majority of why people call a show chuuni.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

Even if that were true it wouldn't change that it's still wrong.

It's not wrong if the community of creators of such works define their creations as such....at the very least it's simply not 100% accurate but it wouldn't be wrong


Well...if you keep insisting that deluded characters or pretentiousness are part of the defining trait, then would you care to list examples.....Because I cannot think of any deluded characters living in their own worlds in any of the chuu2 works I follow (works which the creators themselves define as such)

Over-the-top modern fantasy may be more apt than "delusion." Stuff that one would fantasize about and the like.....usually young adult and middle-high school fantasy. Whether the work is pretentious or not depends on the individual writer, not the genre as a whole.

Which is thus why Shana is borderline (NOTE BORDERLINE) chuu2. The whole setting, its gloominess, its system and the whole fight to change it plot is quite high-school fantasy like. On top of the writer himself stating it is rather chuu2. Yet it doesn't strike me as pretentious.



So yeah....examples? What do you claim is chuu2 work?

Is having a super ability trait a chuuni characteristic

It usually is....


And what examples of so-called "wishful thinking" titles would you list? Or we could brand a whole host of harem shows chuu2....which is obviously completely off the mark.

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Well...if you keep insisting that deluded characters or pretentiousness are part of the defining trait, then would you care to list examples.....

Akatsuki from Kancolle. Delusion as in believing yourself to be an eleph- elegant lady as well as pretentiousness in acting or at least trying to act like one too.

[erneiz_hyde]

Since I don't really follow Kancolle, I don't know if your example is correct, but you see, that's chuu2 when used to define a character trait. We're not saying you're wrong with that, but that you cannot use the same definition to describe the genre attributed as chuu2. Just because a series have a chuu2 character in it, doesn't make it a chuu2 show.

[Eisdrache]

He asked for a character example and that's exactly what I gave.

As for the show example, I still have yet to see a show that is more chuuni than anything else. Yes there might be shows that have some chuuni traits but they're like 80% A, 10% B and maybe 10% chuuni so that's hardly a chuuni show.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

Akatsuki from Kancolle. Delusion as in believing yourself to be an eleph- elegant lady as well as pretentiousness in acting or at least trying to act like one too.

She is a chuu2 character yes, but as a whole....surely you won't call Kantai a chuu2 IP

As for the show example, I still have yet to see a show that is more chuuni than anything else. Yes there might be shows that have some chuuni traits but they're like 80% A, 10% B and maybe 10% chuuni so that's hardly a chuuni show.

And that's the thing.....the genre definition and the standard definition you use to term someone have considerable differences in usage.

That's why if you go by the original meaning, you'll hardly see a series that follows that definition except maybe some original web novel on Narou maybe. Yet we have plenty of IPs defined as chuu2 by the creators

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

He asked for a character example and that's exactly what I gave.

As for the show example, I still have yet to see a show that is more chuuni than anything else. Yes there might be shows that have some chuuni traits but they're like 80% A, 10% B and maybe 10% chuuni so that's hardly a chuuni show.

Ever watch Samurai Flamenco?

A decent case could probably be made that this is primarily a chuuni show for sentai fans.


To be fair, I get your point. I can't think of many shows that I'd consider "chuuni as the primary genre" if you want to approach it that way.

Maybe "chuuni" should be considered a common secondary element, sort of like "Coming of Age"?

[SPARTAN 119]

I'm probably rehashing things other people have said, but, in my opinion, "chuunibyou" is not as much a solidly defined genre such as "action-adventure", "fantasy, or "science fiction". Instead, "chuuni" is a much more nebulous concept- essentially used to describe a series with certain with a certain set of tropes generally considered to be popular with and/or similar to the thinking of individuals with "chuunibyou".

As many above have stated, "chuunibyou", is, in essence, a term for a set of behaviors, which could arguably be called a counterculture, which manifest in some people, typically around the second year of middle school, or, in American terms, 8th grade, though these behaviors may persist beyond that point. While the interest in fantasy, "gothic" themes, mythology, the occult etc are commonly associated with chuunibyou, As YIMW stated above, it is an effort to both assert one's uniqueness, individuality, and creativity, combined with the desire to rebel against societal norms. Chuunibyou is obviously, at heart, a Japanese phenomenon, though similar behaviors exist in the west.

Now, back to "chuuni" anime, in general, it is, as other have stated, is, in my opinion, less genre than a set of tropes representative of the "chuuni" counterculture, which generally includes fantasy, gothic and occult themes and/or mythological references, complex plots and worlds, a protagonist who wishes to assert their uniqueness from societal norms, while also achieving their ideals of strength, heroism, etc. While trait are often seen in anime labels as "chuuni", in the end, as I said above, the terms "chuuni" is a term that, at least for now, somewhat arbitrary and nebulous. While there are some works, such as the Fate/series that are considered "chuuni", there are many works that may or may not be considered "chuuni", depending on who's definition of chuunibyou you're going by.