Madoka Magica vs. Pretty Cure: At the Movies!

[Triple_R]

The movie theater has recently been the staging ground for the storied DC vs. Marvel feud as superheros now rule the roost in Hollywood. Will the anime world, and magical girls in particular, get a small taste of that sort of experience as two very prominent magical girl franchises go head-to-head on October 26th, as indicated here?

Darker Marvel-esque Puella Magi will compete directly with the more classic DC-style Magical Girls of Pretty Cure.

Which movie do people here think will do the best, both commercially and critically?

And do you think that the two movies will feel a commercial pinch due to competing with each other on the very same day?


Posting here so that neither property faces a home field disadvantage.

[speedyexpress48]

Erm...while it's an interesting thought, I'm not sure if this thread belongs in this section...

Personally, I think Madoka has an advantage due to the brand which is a lot more powerful than PreCure IMO, though the fact that PreCure has huge kids appeal will likely help.

[Guido]

You know what I cannot understand is why TOEI doesn't negotiate with Cartoon Network in order to release a Power Puff Girls meets Pretty Cure crossover?

Seven years ago released Power Puff Girls Z anime.

[Animexcel]

Heh, nice little comic book movie reference there
Pretty Cure is a huge franchise. I haven't really followed it, but isn't it like the Pokemon of magical girls where they release a movie every year with a new team of girls? haha. I think Madoka Magica is kind of the underdog, but it wouldn't surprise me if it edged out Pretty Cure.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Animexcel

Heh, nice little comic book movie reference there

Since Nanoha came out, magical girls have struck me as being very much a fusion of superhero and moe. An awful lot of titular magical girl/dark magical girl combos are basically Superman and Batman as teenage/pre-teen girls.

Pretty Cure is a huge franchise. I haven't really followed it, but isn't it like the Pokemon of magical girls where they release a movie every year with a new team of girls?

I think so, yeah.

I think Madoka Magica is kind of the underdog, but it wouldn't surprise me if it edged out Pretty Cure.

I agree. I have to respect a franchise that can actually get a lot of people to pay good money to go to a movie that's content is 90% or more identical to what they already watched on TV.

So if glorified recap movies can pull that off, what will a movie that's entirely new content be able to do?

[relentlessflame]

Let me just state that I do not want this to be the start of a trend of an endless slew of "Franchise X vs. Franchise Y" threads. I understand the reason in this case is the fact that the two movies happen to be launching on the same day, and I'll tentatively allow it, but I am completely opposed to franchise or character battle threads.

Other than that, I think the two movies are generally targeting different audiences with completely different styles of stories. There may be a small amount of overlap, but I don't think either of these are really competing for a general mainstream audience. They're basically there for people who are already fans one way or another, so if you're a fan of both franchises, you'll probably see both movies.

[speedyexpress48]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I agree. I have to respect a franchise that can actually get a lot of people to pay good money to go to a movie that's content is 90% or more identical to what they already watched on TV.

So if glorified recap movies can pull that off, what will a movie that's entirely new content be able to do?

Actually, I doubt the box office numbers for the third film will be a lot higher than the one for the first/second films, because there's several factors in play here:

1. The main market they are aiming, as in hardcore otaku, would gobble up almost everything with the Madoka label on it

2. A lot of people did not watch the TV series before they watched the films. The series was aired on a late-night slot that has generally low viewership, but the series' explosion in popularity among otaku caused it to spread to the mainstream audience.

[Triple_R]

I don't know if it'll be a lot higher, but I do think it'll be higher.

I'm sure there are some people who watched the TV series, and are eager to see actual new Madoka Magica content, but aren't going to go to the movie theaters to watch a recap movie.

[Shyni]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Other than that, I think the two movies are generally targeting different audiences with completely different styles of stories. There may be a small amount of overlap, but I don't think either of these are really competing for a general mainstream audience. They're basically there for people who are already fans one way or another, so if you're a fan of both franchises, you'll probably see both movies.

Yeah, this. Don't these franchises have vastly different target audiences? There probably isn't that much overlap to compete over.

[speedyexpress48]

Originally Posted by Shyni

Yeah, this. Don't these franchises have vastly different target audiences? There probably isn't that much overlap to compete over.

It's supposed to be, but think My Little Pony; a show for children that suddenly gained a lot of adult fans. Precure is like that in the otaku world.

[SPARTAN 119]

Not being familar with PreCure, of these the only one I'm sure to watch is the new Madoka movie. Particularly considering the focus on Homu Homu.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Since Nanoha came out, magical girls have struck me as being very much a fusion of superhero and moe. An awful lot of titular magical girl/dark magical girl combos are basically Superman and Batman as teenage/pre-teen girls.

Nanoha also, in my opinion, marked the appearance of the "badass" magical girl.


As per the Batman comment, Quite an apt metaphor, considering I have heard reviewers describe Madoka as having themes present in the Dark Knight- particularly the idea of dying a hero or living long enough to become a villian.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Which movie do people here think will do the best, both commercially and critically?

The Precure franchise made about ten times the money that the Madoka franchise did last year. I believe it was 60 billion yen vs. 6 billion yen. The Smile movie did better than 1 billion yen by itself while it took the first two Madoka films to do the same.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-1-billion-yen


That said, Precure is a yearly franchise with new characters every year, and Dokidoki seems to be one of the weaker entries in the series. It wouldn't be much of a surprise if the Madoka movie does better, but I'd assume that the new Precure movie will still do better.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

And do you think that the two movies will feel a commercial pinch due to competing with each other on the very same day?

No. Neither film is a saturation event, and it'd be a miracle if either of them manage to top the box office. To date, the only Precure film to do so was Smile. Moreover, Precure films cater more to children than the TV shows do, and I don't think a whole lot of otaku attend screenings.

Originally Posted by speedyexpress48

Erm...while it's an interesting thought, I'm not sure if this thread belongs in this section...

Personally, I think Madoka has an advantage due to the brand which is a lot more powerful than PreCure IMO, though the fact that PreCure has huge kids appeal will likely help.

http://comic.hangzhou.com.cn/dmzx/dm...nt_4766057.htm

Precure is 6th on this 2012 list while Madoka is 39th. For what it's worth, Madoka is still the highest ranked otaku property, and it's two spots ahead of Naruto.

Originally Posted by Animexcel

Heh, nice little comic book movie reference there
Pretty Cure is a huge franchise. I haven't really followed it, but isn't it like the Pokemon of magical girls where they release a movie every year with a new team of girls? haha. I think Madoka Magica is kind of the underdog, but it wouldn't surprise me if it edged out Pretty Cure.

It's two movies a year. The first one is timed to air about six episodes into a new show and it mashes up the new cast with all the old characters while the second tells a complete story with just the new cast.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Since Nanoha came out, magical girls have struck me as being very much a fusion of superhero and moe. An awful lot of titular magical girl/dark magical girl combos are basically Superman and Batman as teenage/pre-teen girls.

Sailor Moon predates Nanoha.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The Precure franchise made about ten times the money that the Madoka franchise did last year. I believe it was 60 billion yen vs. 6 billion yen. The Smile movie did better than 1 billion yen by itself while it took the first two Madoka films to do the same.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-1-billion-yen


That said, Precure is a yearly franchise with new characters every year, and Dokidoki seems to be one of the weaker entries in the series. It wouldn't be much of a surprise if the Madoka movie does better, but I'd assume that the new Precure movie will still do better.


No. Neither film is a saturation event, and it'd be a miracle if either of them manage to top the box office. To date, the only Precure film to do so was Smile. Moreover, Precure films cater more to children than the TV shows do, and I don't think a whole lot of otaku attend screenings.

Thanks for the info.

Sailor Moon predates Nanoha.

Did you honestly think I wasn't aware of this?

I specifically wrote "Since Nanoha came out, magical girls have struck me as being very much a fusion of superhero and moe."

The key word there is "me". I'm just sharing my personal perception of things.

I didn't find the Sailor Moon anime as superhero-esque or as moe as I did Nanoha. Yes, combat was flashier in Sailor Moon than it was in many of the magical girl shows that predate it, but the combat was almost exclusively long range, and often included things like tiaras and scepters. It felt more fantasy-esque, than superhero-esque, imo. It tended to lack that "up close and personal" feeling that you had with a lot of the fights that Nanoha ended up in, and that "up close and personal" feeling is also there for most superhero fights.

[Shyni]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The Precure franchise made about ten times the money that the Madoka franchise did last year. I believe it was 60 billion yen vs. 6 billion yen.

60 billion sounds like an overestimation, considering this financial report thing says Pretty Cure made 11.6 billion in the "net sales by character" section for the financial year that ended in March 2013.

Granted, that's only from BandaiNamco, but it sounds like a stretch that their part is financially less than 1/5th.

But uh, does anyone have numbers for these franchises as a whole, or at least numbers from multiple companies?

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Shyni

60 billion sounds like an overestimation, considering this financial report thing says Pretty Cure made 11.6 billion in the "net sales by character" section for the financial year that ended in March 2013.

Granted, that's only from BandaiNamco, but it sounds like a stretch that their part is financially less than 1/5th.

But uh, does anyone have numbers for these franchises as a whole, or at least numbers from multiple companies?

The list is from CharaBiz, a marketing company that collates data on franchises, so I don't see any reason to doubt its accuracy. Here's their 2011 list for the sake of interest:

http://bizmakoto.jp/makoto/articles/...4/news007.html
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-in-japan-2011

1	Soreike! Anpanman
2	Pokémon
3	Mickey Mouse
4	Hello Kitty
5	One Piece	
6	Precure franchise
7	Rilakkuma
8	Winnie the Pooh
9	Super Mario Brothers
10	Snoopy (Peanuts)
11	Mobile Suit Gundam franchise
12	Kamen Rider OOO
13	Kaizoku Sentai Gokaiger
14	Minnie Mouse
15	Thomas [the Tank Engine] & Friends
16	Miffy
17	Tamagotchi!
18	Duffy
19	Cars
20	Kamen Rider Fourze

I believe that this mainly covers character merchandising revenues, so box office and DVD/Blu-ray earnings may not be included.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Did you honestly think I wasn't aware of this?

I specifically wrote "Since Nanoha came out, magical girls have struck me as being very much a fusion of superhero and moe."

The key word there is "me". I'm just sharing my personal perception of things.

I'm pointing out that everything you brought up about Nanoha ("superhero and moe") is applicable to Sailor Moon as well. Heck, they can be applied to Precure too for that matter.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I'm pointing out that everything you brought up about Nanoha ("superhero and moe") is applicable to Sailor Moon as well. Heck, they can be applied to Precure too for that matter.

More than from "superhero" comics they take inspiration from the "sentai" genre which has its main peculiarity in the fact that there's a group of heroes fighting as a team (usually color coded).


Nanoha actually starts with the old formula of "magical girl" anime, with a focus on a single character that received her magical powers from a mascot. It only switches to the more recent formula set by "sailor moon" later.

[Shyni]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The list is from CharaBiz, a marketing company that collates data on franchises, so I don't see any reason to doubt its accuracy. Here's their 2011 list for the sake of interest:

http://bizmakoto.jp/makoto/articles/...4/news007.html
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-in-japan-2011

1	Soreike! Anpanman
2	Pokémon
3	Mickey Mouse
4	Hello Kitty
5	One Piece	
6	Precure franchise
7	Rilakkuma
8	Winnie the Pooh
9	Super Mario Brothers
10	Snoopy (Peanuts)
11	Mobile Suit Gundam franchise
12	Kamen Rider OOO
13	Kaizoku Sentai Gokaiger
14	Minnie Mouse
15	Thomas [the Tank Engine] & Friends
16	Miffy
17	Tamagotchi!
18	Duffy
19	Cars
20	Kamen Rider Fourze

I believe that this mainly covers character merchandising revenues, so box office and DVD/Blu-ray earnings may not be included.

There's a ranking, and numbers for the market in it's entirety, but I don't see anything that says Precure itself makes 60 billion in a single year. (Although this is from looking at Google translate and searching for numbers in the same sentence as any phrases containing "プリ", though)

There are these paragraphs on page 2 that mentions numbers in the billions, but it doesn't seem to be about any franchise in particular:

キャラクター・データバンクの「CharaBizDATA2012」によると、2011年の日本のキャラク ター商品市場は1兆6060億円。これは、先ほども述べたオリジナルキャラクターや戦隊ものキャラクター、 ゲームや玩具などアニメ以外のものを含むキャラクター商品全体の市場だが、ここ10年間は1兆6000億円 を基本ラインとして安定した推移を見せている。これは、先ほども見たように、毎年上位を占める人気定番キャ ラクター商品が軸となって安定した市場になっているからだろう。
(...)
　この中でアニメのキャラクター商品市場はどれくらいあるのか調べたのが次表である。ポケモン旋風の余波が あった2001年に5700億円あった市場が、2002年にはその反動もあってか4350億円と一挙に23 .7％も減ってしまっている。しかし、その後順調に回復し、テレビアニメ本数が最も多かった2007年には 6419億円と、2001年の市場規模を上回る。2008年からは落ち着くが、6000億円をベースとして 安定した市場になっている。

Yeah, the ranking is definitely correct, just that there doesn't see to be any numbers about any specific media property.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Shyni

There's a ranking, and numbers for the market in it's entirety, but I don't see anything that says Precure itself makes 60 billion in a single year. (Although this is from looking at Google translate and searching for numbers in the same sentence as any phrases containing "プリ", though)

There aren't any franchise specific numbers in the 2011 list. However, the 2012 list tells us that the character merchandising market was 1.534 trillion yen, and that Precure accounted for 4.14% of that total. This gives us the 63.5 billion figure.

Originally Posted by Shyni

There are these paragraphs on page 2 that mentions numbers in the billions, but it doesn't seem to be about any franchise in particular:

Yeah, the ranking is definitely correct, just that there doesn't see to be any numbers about any specific media property.

The part you quoted talks about the total size of the market - 1.606 trillion in 2011, 1.600 trillion in 2010, and so on. Do bear in mind that this is about merchandising; not necessarily toy sales. I doubt that Anpanman sells all that many more toys than any other franchise, so it'd make up for it in other areas.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

More than from "superhero" comics they take inspiration from the "sentai" genre which has its main peculiarity in the fact that there's a group of heroes fighting as a team (usually color coded).

Sentai = superhero team. Heck, one of the ancestors of the modern Super Sentai shows is Spiderman!

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Sentai = superhero team. Heck, one of the ancestors of the modern Super Sentai shows is Spiderman!

I could argue that sentai have distinctive characteristics that make them different from other superhero teams, but anyway that's the same as to say that the ancestor of "Sailor Moon" is "creamy mami", the fact that with "sailor moon" you have a team is already something distinctive and if Naoko Takeuchi took inspiration from "spiderman" instead of sentai tokusatsu you wouldn't have a team of magical girls and it wouldn't have been anything particularly innovative.

[Hagoshod]

Madoka vs. Pretty Cure?

Spoiler:

Old.