New Forum Sections and Re-Organization

[ReinZwei]

Okay, understood it more clearly this time , thanks

*goes back to tagging*

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by ReinZwei

Okay, understood it more clearly this time , thanks

*goes back to tagging*

Thank you!!! And if there are any questions or anything that need more clarification about the split, please feel free to post it in the other thread so we can clarify it.

[Eisdrache]

I'll have to echo the sentiment about the game section. Instead of having all of them in one place I now have to browse two boards. Given that most gamers who frequent this page most likely play both anime and non-anime games, the separation simply makes things unnecessarily complicated.

As for music, this gets quite hilarious if an artist has composed both anime and non-anime music as he then gets discussed in Music as well as ... Sports&Entertainment (I guess?).

In the same line the split between News&Politics, Science&Technology and Sports&Entertainment seems weird too. Where do I post a politician campaigning against dangerous technology? Science for the sake of entertainment? Are there even news that don't fit into one of the others? Not to mention General Chat could have all of these threads too.

[Utsuro no Hako]

We can discuss manga without the thread being swept off the first page within five minutes? Oh happy day!

[Irenicus]

Nice work, relentless @ co.

My feedback would echo the rest of the people here: I think "Games" section should be reunited. The discussion is never busy enough to warrant two section. It risks one if not both of the game boards being dead. Right now, it would be inefficient at best to decide, case-by-case, if one game belongs in one section or another. If it gets busy, you can always divide it later.

It seems you have a plan about the LN/WN division so I won't comment about that.

But otherwise, really great work.

[relentlessflame]

The reason for wanting to split out Visual Novels from Video Games is mostly because they have more in common with Light Novels/Web Novels than they do with Video Games. And otherwise, most of the game discussion is about things that aren't anime-related at all. The original thought was just to move Video Games to the General section, but I thought it felt like a gap not having visual novels not listed up there along with all the rest of the anime-related media. That's even though there hasn't been a whole ton of "traffic" so far, but it may have room to grow.

So anyway, we're still thinking about it and accepting feedback. There's a good chance that will change (or at least we'll clarify what goes where).


As for General Chat split... splitting out News & Politics was partly to avoid the giant "super-thread" we've had so far, and also to impose a bit stricter moderation rules that would allow us to "evict" someone from that section if necessary (because some people just can't keep their cool when it comes to politics). And then it seemed to make sense to make other sections to go with it, and we fussed a bit over how to categorize them. It may not be perfect, and it will be a big change considering everything was in one section before (with a few "super threads"). Hopefully this will reduce the amount of "super threads" and have more context-sensitive threads so that it's easier to follow on-going threads without stepping over each other. But anyway, we'll see how it goes. If it doesn't work out, we can reorganize again.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

I dunno what to think, Its nice that things have their own section but it does feel like it's been subdivided a bit too much. Its a LOT of clicking to get around to the sub-forums I'd like to look at now compared to before.

Also, shouldn't the "Silly News" thread which is pretty much synonymous for "Global News that doesn't relate to America or Japan" be in the news sub-forum?

[Tempester]

I think due to the different formatting, VNs and mobage should have their own subforum while the rest of the games are put into a general game subforum. Borderline stuff like Hyperdimension Neptunia where a lot of dialogue is in VN form can go either place. But gameplay-heavy non-VNs like Yandere Simulator definitely need to be with the rest of the general games.

There's also the issue of splitting games into "anime" games and non-"anime" games. I think the distinction is silly. What makes Yandere Simulator more "anime" than FFXV? Is it bigger eyes or a Japanese setting? Is something "less anime" the more popular it is with mainstream gamers? Not to mention the fact that Yandere Simulator is not Japanese-made while FFXV is, which is ironic given the English definition of "anime" is Japanese to begin with. Why do we need to make such vague distinctions instead of putting all games that aren't VNs and mobage together?

[relentlessflame]

For the games split, would it make sense to have it be "Visual Novels, Mobage, and Anime Spin-Off Games" instead? And then have all the other games, regardless of style/approach, be in Video Games? (Anime Spin-Off Games because they are clearly "anime-related" in the most literal sense, and are grouped with all the other media that are connected to anime.)

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

For the games split, would it make sense to have it be "Visual Novels, Mobage, and Anime Spin-Off Games" instead? And then have all the other games, regardless of style/approach, be in Video Games? (Anime Spin-Off Games because they are clearly "anime-related" in the most literal sense, and are grouped with all the other media that are connected to anime.)

Sounds good. Such a categorization is much more concrete than simply going off things like art style.

[monster]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

For the games split, would it make sense to have it be "Visual Novels, Mobage, and Anime Spin-Off Games" instead? And then have all the other games, regardless of style/approach, be in Video Games? (Anime Spin-Off Games because they are clearly "anime-related" in the most literal sense, and are grouped with all the other media that are connected to anime.)

This is better indeed if you insist on having an anime-related section instead of simply a general entertainment section.

What's the plan for games that are adapted into anime?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by monster

What's the plan for games that are adapted into anime?

I guess what we could do is, if there is an airing anime based on an existing game, we could put a sticky redirect in this section pointing to the "real" thread in the other section? That way in case anyone goes to the section looking for the game, they'll know to look in the other section.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

For the games split, would it make sense to have it be "Visual Novels, Mobage, and Anime Spin-Off Games" instead? And then have all the other games, regardless of style/approach, be in Video Games? (Anime Spin-Off Games because they are clearly "anime-related" in the most literal sense, and are grouped with all the other media that are connected to anime.)

I was just going to suggest that. It may cause some confusion when the anime is itself a game spinoff like the Neptunia anime adaptation but then I guess the shortcut works.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

For the games split, would it make sense to have it be "Visual Novels, Mobage, and Anime Spin-Off Games" instead? And then have all the other games, regardless of style/approach, be in Video Games? (Anime Spin-Off Games because they are clearly "anime-related" in the most literal sense, and are grouped with all the other media that are connected to anime.)

If you do this, I'd just say to remove anime spin-offs from the grouping entirely and just split it into <Video Games> and <Visual Novels and Mobage>. But keep the other video games subforum in the same hub as visual novels, since there are still anime games that aren't VNs, Mobage, or spin offs.

Though I still think splitting it at all is rather silly since there's little to no discussion taking place for VN or Mobage anyway. And that's not due to them not having their own subforum.

All I know is this convoluted and senseless split into general has me not caring to even visit that subforum at all, so rather than encourage more posting by making it easier to navigate, you made it more of a hassle than it's worth.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by GDB

Though I still think splitting it at all is rather silly since there's little to no discussion taking place for VN or Mobage anyway. And that's not due to them not having their own subforum.

I wouldn't say that. LLSIF has 1,500 posts, as does Dies Irae. Higurashi game threads have always had tons of posts even though they're in sub-forums (for now). I think visual novels are opening up to more audiences as they're increasingly licensed and released officially, so I think there's room for continued growth. There are a number of other well-posted threads too. And, as I said, it tends to fall in the same "media mix" line as Light Novels, Manga, and so on that tend to accompany many anime these days. For the same reason, I'm not sure that I agree about the anime spin-off games, as I think there's merit in keeping all parts of the "media mix" together. Obviously, I don't expect that visual novels or mobage will have as much traffic as mainstream video games (there's a huge difference in how popular it is), but I do think there isn't necessarily always overlap in the audiences or the nature of the medium itself.

And well... I'm sorry you feel that way about the split. For games, we did try to make it as easy as possible to jump between the sections with the jump link at the top, but I realize that it now means multiple sections to visit and not one. (There are people who similar don't like when we split out an anime into a sub-forum, because that makes multiple forums and threads to visit instead of just having everything in one place.) Our overall goal is to see if a community can form in these various sections and to reduce the amount of super-threads with overlapping conversations, so we'll see how things go. As I said, if it doesn't work out, we can try something else.

[GDB]

Those are just super specific threads, though. I meant as a whole.

If they must be split, I'd still vastly prefer it to just be in the same hub (like how LN is above WN which is above Manga, so it'd be Video Games above VN/Mobage) and have "anime related games" just be in the video game section. Especially since it's not like various JRPGs aren't just as related to anime or more than random web novels, light novels, manga, or generic asian music (which doesn't even have to be japanese).

It's not even just clicking, but the confusion over what goes where. I still don't see how Persona 5 is any more anime-related than SMT x FE, Final Fantasy, or Fire Emblem, for example.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by GDB

It's not even just clicking, but the confusion over what goes where. I still don't see how Persona 5 is any more anime-related than SMT x FE, Final Fantasy, or Fire Emblem, for example.

Well, you'll be happy to know in that case that I just moved them back to Video Games to align with the new naming. I tried to err more on the side of putting things in Video Games, but I suppose there are some that straddle the line between Visual Novel and Game that could be debated. (If it's an Eroge that's also an SRPG or something, that would fall under the eroge category first.)

As for keeping them in the same section... we thought to put video games closer to the all the threads in General Chat because it's closer-aligned to mainstream entertainment than anime. But I personally use Subscribed Threads to keep a nice list of forums I check often, so that's an option too if you prefer.


EDIT: As an aside to the above, I want to also mention that the support forums have now been moved to the Support section as well.

[myopius]

Hey, I just wanted to post to say that I think I understand why the WN/LN distinction was made. It makes it simpler for mods to deal with problematic posts. But I hope that in the future, it's adjusted. I know that many times a subforum is split, people complain that they have to visit 2 subforums, and sometimes that's unavoidable. But in this case, the split should be easy to correct. Based on the current policy, the LN subforum should contain pure LNs (never a WN) + the popular WNs (because most are published), and the WN subforum should mostly contain new and/or unpopular WNs. However, I don't think there is any real benefit to moving WNs to the LN subforum when they're published. It makes it easier for the mods to see that the Narou link isn't allowed, but in the first place, the authors will remove or abridge it on Narou themselves if they want to. Many don't even remove it, like the authors of Mushoku Tensei and Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken. Some mod may say that removing the link could help boost sales of published volumes by AnimeSuki users, but I would consider that a misplaced viewpoint. I think that it would make more sense to move WNs to the LN forum based on the prominence of the publisher, as in the case of Sword Art Online and Mahouka, because in such cases, most fans see the series as a LN more than a WN. I think that it'll be easier for the users this way.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by myopius

Hey, I just wanted to post to say that I think I understand why the WN/LN distinction was made. It makes it simpler for mods to deal with problematic posts. But I hope that in the future, it's adjusted. I know that many times a subforum is split, people complain that they have to visit 2 subforums, and sometimes that's unavoidable. But in this case, the split should be easy to correct. Based on the current policy, the LN subforum should contain pure LNs (never a WN) + the popular WNs (because most are published), and the WN subforum should mostly contain new and/or unpopular WNs. However, I don't think there is any real benefit to moving WNs to the LN subforum when they're published. It makes it easier for the mods to see that the Narou link isn't allowed, but in the first place, the authors will remove or abridge it on Narou themselves if they want to. Many don't even remove it, like the authors of Mushoku Tensei and Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken. Some mod may say that removing the link could help boost sales of published volumes by AnimeSuki users, but I would consider that a misplaced viewpoint. I think that it would make more sense to move WNs to the LN forum based on the prominence of the publisher, as in the case of Sword Art Online and Mahouka, because in such cases, most fans see the series as a LN more than a WN. I think that it'll be easier for the users this way.

Sorry, but I'm not too sure that I'm following exactly the recommendation. Give this thread a read to follow at least the idea. It isn't our plan to move a WN to LN once it's licensed. The WN thread would stay and a new thread would be created for the LN. We would, however, remove the link to the raw from the WN thread, as is our overall site policy. That way people could continue to discuss the WN and LN separately, and the LN thread would not allow spoilers for the WN. Same applies for Manga that may spin-off from WN and LNs.

Now, currently threads were migrated based on what was identified in the title and the tagging done by members. It's possible that some errors were made or things aren't in the best spot. In that case, please again review that linked post, and feel free to tag threads that need changing. Currently, in cases where the was one "master thread" that covered a lot of different media, we tried to move it to the section that was further ahead (be it the WN or the LN) or the one that was the primary. But again, some errors may have been made. Feel free to tag the corrections and we'll review it again.

Hope that helps clarify, but again, please give the other thread a read to hopefully clear up the way the separation was intended to work. Let me know if you have any further questions!

[myopius]

Ack, I was confused. I did read through everything fairly carefully, but my brain was repeatedly misreading part of a single paragraph... Thanks for the very thoughtful response. I don't have any further questions.