Fate/stay night Heaven's Feel Movie Discussion Thread

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Usami_Haru

Spoiler for HF:

It's the great grail no doubt (it's standing atop the tower instead of flosting in the sky. This and Rider's position in the picture makes me pretty sure we're getting some HF material at least.

The presence of that in the picture makes me feel that this is HF at the base but with new scenes to expand the presence of the other characters and new battles compared to the game since some characters didn't get their time to shine. Maybe get some stories from UBW and Fate in to round out the story better than in the game.

[sona-nyl]

I think it's more likely that it'll start out as a Fate/UBW mix and switch to HF later.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Usami_Haru

I think it's more likely that it'll start out as a Fate/UBW mix and switch to HF later.

Technically the same as what I said. It's HF at the base of it all but uses the beginning to get the fighting and characters development that we got from fate and ubw but couldn't get from HF hence them mentioning adding in new scenes.

[Nayim]

From Nasu's blog:

―――さて。
あらゆる創作者にとって自作とは子供のようなものです。
叶うのならどこまでも健やかに育ってほしいと願い、Fateをここまで育ててきました。
月日が経つにつれ子供だった頃の面影は消え、違う一面を見せるようになるでしょう。

Well then.
Every creator’s work is like a child to them.
I wished for it to grow up to be healthy in every respect, and so Fate has grown this much.
As time passes, the child you knew will disappear, but it will surely show you a different side of itself.

「極端な話ですが、物語性においても映像面においてもzeroとは別のモノと考えてください。
stay nightが目指したものとZeroが目指したものは別のもの。
これを無遠慮に繋げてしまうと物語も空気感も破綻します。
stay nightもzeroも違う作家が書いた違う物語だからこそ、互いを尊重しあえるものなんです」

It’s an extreme story, but please think of it as something separate from Zero in terms of both story and animation.
What Stay Night aimed for was different from what Zero aimed for.
Presumptively trying to tie this together will destroy both the story and the atmosphere.
Stay Night and Zero can mutually respect each other because of the fact that they were different stories written by different authors.

暴論である事は覚悟の上での発言でした。
自分はzeroという大仕事を終えてくれたスタッフに「前の仕事の方法論は忘れてほしい」と言 ったのです。
そんな中、その場に集まったスタッフの皆さんははっきりと返してくれました。

「勿論わかっています。これはzeroの続編ではなく、stay nightという新作ですから」と。

I said that knowing very well that it was an irrational argument.
I told the staff who had kindly completed the major work that was Zero that I wanted them to forget the methodology of the previous work.
In that context, the staff there gave me this clear response:

"Of course, we understand that. This is not a continuation of Zero, but a new work called Stay Night after all."

―――この時点で、奈須きのこの“でも今になってFateってどうなの？”なんて迷いは消えまし た。
あれだけの成功の後に、こんな言葉を即答できるスタッフとものづくりができる事に感謝を。
今は『ufo版Fate/stay night』が10年の歳月に相応しいものに仕上がるよう、微力ながらお手伝いさせていただいております 。

At this point, Nasu Kinoko’s worries like “Really, at this point, is Fate alright?” vanished.
I am grateful to the staff who, even after such a great success, can give me that kind of immediate reply, and I am grateful that this craftsmanship is possible.
Although I’m unskilled, I am helping to create a Fate/Stay Night (Ufo Version) that will be suitable for the tenth anniversary.

[Brother Coa]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Technically the same as what I said. It's HF at the base of it all but uses the beginning to get the fighting and characters development that we got from fate and ubw but couldn't get from HF hence them mentioning adding in new scenes.

Or they could do Fate/UBW mix, then after castle battle throw in corrupted Sakura but this time they are able to beat her ( and save her along the way ) and deal with Zouken, and then throw in Archer ( Gilgamesh ) to deal with him before leaving ( changing to Fate again ).
Really now, they can write that anyway they want since they will write entire new storyline. In a way this will be just another parallel universe, how will he write it remains to be seen. But I am happy to see that it will finally include HF and at least please the people who played it.

[sona-nyl]

As said several times in this thread it hasn't been confirmed anywhere that it's going to be a brand new scenario. The only thing that is confirmed is that there will be original scenes (probably to tie in more to F/Z).

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by Usami_Haru

I think it's more likely that it'll start out as a Fate/UBW mix and switch to HF later.

Well, the initial parts of the routes aren't that important in the overall story, they just set things up for later. So, I suspect that the beginning is the most likely to be significantly re-written. The ending needs to be more focussed, so will probably have to follow a particular route more closely.

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

Or they could do Fate/UBW mix, then after castle battle throw in corrupted Sakura but this time they are able to beat her ( and save her along the way ) and deal with Zouken, and then throw in Archer ( Gilgamesh ) to deal with him before leaving ( changing to Fate again ).
Really now, they can write that anyway they want since they will write entire new storyline. In a way this will be just another parallel universe, how will he write it remains to be seen. But I am happy to see that it will finally include HF and at least please the people who played it.

The problem with that is that it took the entirety of HF to get to the point where Sakura would actually break. You can't just randomly throw Dark Sakura in for an arc, defeat her and then forget about her. That's what Deen tried, and it was awful.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Well, the initial parts of the routes aren't that important in the overall story, they just set things up for later. So, I suspect that the beginning is the most likely to be significantly re-written. The ending needs to be more focussed, so will probably have to follow a particular route more closely.



The problem with that is that it took the entirety of HF to get to the point where Sakura would actually break. You can't just randomly throw Dark Sakura in for an arc, defeat her and then forget about her. That's what Deen tried, and it was awful.

exactly. That's why I feel HF at the base while adding in a few Fate and UBW story lines for the other characters. To just throw that Grail and Sakura in at the end would just be rehash of the first anime series. And you can't just break Sakura without going into her relationship with Shiro. By showing that grail they are saying that HF plays a role in this anime series and likely not a minor throw in. Rider also has a pretty prominent position in the image alongside Archer and Saber compared to all the other servants and her role too is only explored in HF. whereas she's just a villain of the day in Fate and UBW.

[Cherry_Lover]

Yeah, I think making it more HF-centric whilst giving Saber a larger role is plausible. I think you can tack Saber and Archer onto HF more easily than you can tack HF stuff onto Fate or UBW, because there are a lot more ways to involve Saber and Archer and their backstory than there are ways to involve all the stuff about the shadow.

Spoiler:

Hell, Archer already has a decent role in HF, and his identity is revealed. The only thing that isn't dealt with is his fight with Shirou, and I don't think there is any way to properly include that and Sakura's story, because the two require Shirou to develop in a different way.

But, at the same time, making it HF-centric does mean Saber's role will be reduced. You can change the story somewhat to prevent her being turned Dark, but I don't think you can really cover everything whilst following a HF-like route. I'm not sure that Ufotable will want to do that, honestly.

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Yeah, I think making it more HF-centric whilst giving Saber a larger role is plausible. I think you can tack Saber and Archer onto HF more easily than you can tack HF stuff onto Fate or UBW, because there are a lot more ways to involve Saber and Archer and their backstory than there are ways to involve all the stuff about the shadow.

Spoiler:

Hell, Archer already has a decent role in HF, and his identity is revealed. The only thing that isn't dealt with is his fight with Shirou, and I don't think there is any way to properly include that and Sakura's story, because the two require Shirou to develop in a different way.

But, at the same time, making it HF-centric does mean Saber's role will be reduced. You can change the story somewhat to prevent her being turned Dark, but I don't think you can really cover everything whilst following a HF-like route. I'm not sure that Ufotable will want to do that, honestly.

Another problem is we don't know how many cours the anime is.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Another problem is we don't know how many cours the anime is.

Very likely 2 cours like Fate Zero. The routes in FSN are LONG routes.

[Cherry_Lover]

Well, I would expect it to be the same length as the original FSN anime (not sure what that is in terms of cours). Whilst the FSN anime was somewhat padded-out with filler to reach the required length, I think anything significantly shorter would simply not be enough to cover even one whole route properly, let alone trying to add in bits from all three, and anything longer would require a ridiculous amount of (probably-bad) filler.

[Brother Coa]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Very likely 2 cours like Fate Zero. The routes in FSN are LONG routes.

I agree, 25 episodes minimum.
But even this is little, as I remember they had to cut some parts in F/Z even if they had 25 episodes for it ( Saber and Lancer fight is good example for that ). Comparing to F/SN, Fate/Zero is like one route.

[MeoTwister5]

I'm sure F/SN is too big to just have 12-13 episodes, not to mention the butchery the story will suffer should they actually compress everything that short.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

I agree, 25 episodes minimum.
But even this is little, as I remember they had to cut some parts in F/Z even if they had 25 episodes for it ( Saber and Lancer fight is good example for that ). Comparing to F/SN, Fate/Zero is like one route.

Well, if you compare it to the original FSN anime, 25 episodes was slightly on the long side. However, HF and UBW are both somewhat longer routes than Fate, and adding content will necessarily make it longer, so I would expect 25 episodes to be perhaps slightly tight. I don't think it is long enough to have three cours, though, so two is most likely.

[sona-nyl]

I looked through some old interviews about the old anime:

- What did you try express in the anime?

Nasu: The main theme of the anime was the "a boy meets a girl" story, because a majority of the opinions hoped for the first storyline, and the director wanted it also.

So I can't seeing it turning out too similar to the old one considering they have a completely different focus this time, I don't think the Zero viewers are looking for "a boy meets girl" story at least.

[GDB]

But if it ends up being the same route, then at best it's the same story with a different focus. That... isn't much better at all.

[Sansker]

I can’t help it but to laugh at the note there from Nasu’s blog. Is like “Remember all the good stuff you did with the prequel that everyone like it? Good, now forget about that and lets do something else”. Yeah, that is a good sign right there. Nah, just joking but it sounded that way.

In all seriousness I think is a bit odd to say that Zero and Stay Night are two different things when the end of Zero was disappointing because it had to set up Stay Night. Just saying it feels like the author is taking a step back for no good reason.

[Death Usagi]

I wish Saber Alter shows up, but I'd say that is highly unlikely if they are going to mix routes somewhat...

[myopius]

Thanks for posting that, Nayim. It's nice to hear that Nasu feels good about ufotable's overall concept for the series.

Originally Posted by Usami_Haru

As said several times in this thread it hasn't been confirmed anywhere that it's going to be a brand new scenario. The only thing that is confirmed is that there will be original scenes (probably to tie in more to F/Z).

For the record, I don't recall the word "scene" actually being used anywhere. I glanced through the original Japanese tweets and a couple matome sites, but all I recall reading is that there would be new truths/facts not depicted in the original work (i.e. Nasu's knowledge would be incorporated into it) with no specifics whatsoever. Although it does seem very possible that this new setting info will take the form of new scenes.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Well, if you compare it to the original FSN anime, 25 episodes was slightly on the long side. However, HF and UBW are both somewhat longer routes than Fate, and adding content will necessarily make it longer, so I would expect 25 episodes to be perhaps slightly tight. I don't think it is long enough to have three cours, though, so two is most likely.

I personally expect 3 or 4 cours unless major, major cuts are made. To repost a comparison I made elsewhere: Steins;Gate and Umineko were 40-50K lines, and 2 cours each. Little Busters 76K lines and 3 cours; Clannad 100K lines and 4 cours. On the other hand, Fate/stay night is 100K lines and 20% longer than Clannad because the average line length is longer. I actually wouldn't expect a full 4 cours unless it's the "omnibus" format and they animate one route after another; the 18+ scenes will be cut, and I expect ufotable to make a few major cuts to integrate the story the way they want (perhaps, as others have speculated, making Heaven's Feel the base), so I expect 3 cours. But I can't really see 2 cours doing Fate/stay night justice (not to criticize the 2-cour 2006 anime, but I hold the opinion that it did not take the story as deep or far as the original visual novel).