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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 24 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 62 | 48.82% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 36 | 28.35% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 14 | 11.02% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 4 | 3.15% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 3 | 2.36% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 3 | 2.36% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 3 | 2.36% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 2 | 1.57% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-06-18, 22:34 | Link #221 | |
Cool Lander
Join Date: Aug 2006
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And again, there is a difference between saving one group over another vs saving one group and actively slaughtering the other. Maybe psychotic isn't the right word. Heartless may be a better description, but he is definitely not right in the head. I just do not like the writing for his character. He's just too one dimensional . He thinks too simply and like i said, in black and white. It's just hard to take him seriously with his unrealistic attitude. I feel that they were trying to make him a character that was hellbent on completing the mission but they just fell flat with him. Roberta from black lagoon was even more one dimensional but at least they succeeded in making her badass. The Boss from Metal gear solid also prioritized the mission over everything. But she wasn't a flat character in any sense. Maybe something will happen in the final episode but as it stands, to me, Emiya is just an unlikeable character with no substance. EDIT: i don't know, I'm not trying to upset anyone or say they are wrong for thinking Emiya is likeable or deep. I'm just saying what i think. Also, adaptations from books leave aot of inner dialogue out and the thoughts of characters. I'm thinking maybe something got lost in the conversion.
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Last edited by Double_Edge; 2012-06-18 at 22:46. |
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2012-06-18, 22:58 | Link #222 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Emiya's situations usually seems to be more of kill a small number of people or all the people die. The option to save some over the other is not generally present since the situation usually will result in everyone dying if he does nothing.
Even in the cases were he could just save some of the people and not save the others, the others still die. Sometimes it is just logical conclusion that if he personally kills some of them himself, more will not be killed later. And by logical I mean, Mages and/or the Church comes in afterwards and kills every witness regardless of what they did or saw. Under the "Save some and everyone else dies, or kill some and the others might live because there is no incident for the mages/Church to cleanup" type rules....logic is about the only sane thing left. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one. it might be cold logic, but it is the best he's got. The more human approach, that the needs of the one, sometime outweigh the needs of the many...elude Emiya. Not because he doesn't want to save the few or the one...but because life has been such that everytime he might be able to do so, the few or the one are taken from him anyway. In this case, the few would be Iris and Illya. And Emiya did want to save them and avoid the War entirely. But the needs of the many won....until the Grail proved to be an evil trap (tricky Grail-kun). Then it was too late.
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2012-06-19, 01:03 | Link #223 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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in a way Kiritsugu and Saber are exactly the same. Despite their different views on war, they both place the world above themselves. Kiritsugu sacrifice his happiness and Saber her identify. PS. it was a hotel not a apt.
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2012-06-19, 01:04 | Link #224 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Interesting fact in the animation material booklet that came with the first Bluray Boxset
It was stated when ufotable started planning fate/Zero and it's Feel Everyone decided that Batman The Dark Knight was a good fit But it was quite interesting and surprising that they actually used a similar setting from the movie for one of the fights Another interesting fact is that Urobuchi Gen attended most of the planning meetings and it was actually him that wanted to deviate from the novel the most so much in fact they stated it would've been impossible to return |
2012-06-19, 02:37 | Link #225 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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It's so obvious in this episode that they ran out of time to portray various scenes, and there's a lot of abrupt transitions. That said, as a novel reader I'm mostly watching for fanservice, and Ufotable production quality is still pretty damn solid. So stuff like that isn't going to ruin the mood for me.
However I'm now genuinely interested in what cut content gets in the BD editions. Wonder if this is some plot to sell more of those...
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2012-06-19, 03:11 | Link #227 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
Of course removing those scenes would have been horrible. But so was removing (so much of) Saber vs Berserker. Nobody's saying taking out those other scenes would have been absolutely ideal, because there is no entirely good choice here. But, if we try and look for the lesser of evils, there's certainly a handful of scenes that might have been more suitable to be the unfortunate "sacrificial lamb" than Saber vs Berserker. The latter's entire point as a character hinged upon those scenes. Without them he ended up having less of a role and characterization than Assassin. Not only that, it was also, for reasons I've already explained in a previous post, an absolutely character defining moment for Saber, who is supposed to be one of the main characters of the show. No matter how you look at it, there have been scenes that were more fitting to be "extra content" than those. |
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2012-06-19, 03:31 | Link #228 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Defining perhaps, but not changing. Saber doesn't change because of this. In fact she doesn't change at all from what I can tell until probably Fate/Stay Night. Berserker gets the sad treatment, mainly because in the overall point of things...he is ultimately unimportant to the story save to keep Saber from reaching the Grail in time. Kariya had his story moments and his plot fulfilled. His ending is still sad, but not vital anymore to the plot...even his own plotline. (Least their story wasn't cut entirely.)
Saber is a "main character" only because she's Saber, from Fate/Stay Night. In terms of the plot arcs...she's rather secondary because her story really isn't here....it is in Fate/Stay Night. Her plot basically got a ten year delay because of Kerry it seems ordering her to destroy the Grail. This is Kerry's story, so if there is a need to cut due to time...the plot will favor him over Saber.
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2012-06-19, 03:58 | Link #230 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
And just because Saber's story isn't completed here doesn't mean her journey in F/Z wasn't an important chapter in it (not to mention I find her to be a better written here than in F/SN, although that's beside the point here). Regardless, when did I propose Kiritsugu be the one to have his scenes cut instead of her and why are you acting as if that's the only possibility? He wasn't even mentioned in the original post I quoted (which mentioned Waver and Kariya, who are indeed more secondary to the story than Saber). |
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2012-06-19, 14:54 | Link #233 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I think the main reason I miss the Lancelot scenes aren't because they're really so compelling in and of themselves, but I think that the episode is deliberately set up to parallel Kiritsugu and Saber's characters.
She martyred herself to carry her people's ideals, while he was willing to be the martyr who carried all the world's evils. But both end up at the exact same place of disillusionment, from opposite ends. Without fully seeing the reason for the disillusionment on her side, I do agree with Endless Twilight that it hurts her characterizations in the ensuing scenes. I do not claim to know a better way for the production teams to have structured it, but I think it's still fair to say the abbreviation hurts the episode. I will agree with others, though, that I see no way to structure the immediately surrounding episodes that would be better. Last episode felt perfectly paced to me, and I think that moving much of it would have damaged that one instead. All that said, I watched the episode with my roommate, who has not read the novels, and he had no problems at all with the episode. The missing Lancelot stuff only bothered him after I told him about it, but a priori, was not a problem (though he mentioned the denouement of the fight "seemed abrupt"). |
2012-06-19, 17:31 | Link #234 | |
Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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I wonder what the next interview booklet will say about all this.
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2012-06-20, 00:50 | Link #235 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Age: 33
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There were a lot of western influences in that Kotomine vs Kiritsugu fight, which is fairly unusual as the only anime, that I know of, with combat done in a similar Hollywood style, is Cowboy Bebop. The fight opens with a traditional Spaghetti Western standoff with the two combatants standing a few meters apart from each, Kiritsugu’s hand above his holster as the camera glares behind the legs of both participants, before the scene erupts into violence. I’m actually curious as to whether that was a more general reference to Western cinema or whether it was a reference to The Matrix, which is the only other movie or television show, that I know of, set during the Modern Era, with such a scene.
As much as I’ve heard people criticize the “knife scene”, I was getting major déjà vu with Neo’s first and final fight against Smith, in which one combatant attacks while the other passively parries it with a collection of side-arms. I think that this chorography and the chorography for the fight in general, were done extremely well. And I'm really not sure if I need to explain this one: Everyone already knows about "The Batcave".
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2012-06-20, 06:06 | Link #236 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I think the knife scene wasn't criticized so much for its choreography as it was for the character models of questionable quality in some of the shots:
Spoiler:
It's not a big deal with how fluidly it flows when in motion, but it'd still be nice if they could improve those a little for the BD version, like they did for some episodes in Season 1. |
2012-06-20, 16:54 | Link #237 |
Underweight Food Hoarder
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No! That cannot be, there must be some more idealistic solution to all of this. This must be a misunderstanding.
This episode was EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK Damn grail-kun trolling hard "What kind of miracle is that!?" Last edited by Paranoid Android; 2012-06-20 at 17:05. |
2012-06-20, 19:59 | Link #238 | |
Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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Quote:
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