Kashimashi Episode 12 Discussion/Poll

[TDRKZ]

I agree with yasuna saying. now that i can see everyone i found another guy I like. When you see hazumu passing by tomari, she has an upset look on her face, then cheers up infront of tomari which again proves that its probably yasuna dumping her.

That or their going to pull something out of their ass like O HEY LOOKY HERE, THE SPACE SHIP MEN MADE A CLONE OF ME SO NOW THERES ONE OF ME FOR EVERYONE! LETS ALL HAVE 4 s**e

-_-'''

[Sinestra]

Having loved the series so far i expected a no win situation where no one was picked, even though i was rooting for Tomari the whole time so when hazamu picked Yusuna i was little disappointed but happy that a decision was made. Just whn i get ready to accept everything they throw that F up ending in. My thoughts are that Yasuna ended the relationship. Yasuna had no reason to let go of Hazumu's hand if she wasnt going to say something serious. Also. the next scene we see Hazumu running across the rocks (just like when he and Tomari made that marriage promise) with an upset look of her face. There was no reason to look up set if Yasuna had said something happy. Also, Hazumu never gave a reason for picking Yasuna she just says she will stay by Yasuna side thats it. In the intro HAzumu's monolog says I love you Tomari and I love you Yasuna. ITs not like she didnt have romatic feelings for Tomari she just chose Yasuna. I think Yasuna realized that Tomari and Hazumu belong together and decided to end the relationship to force Hazamu to realieze her true feelings. ANyway thats just my guess but i guess well havet o wait for the evil producers to realease the 13th episode in the fall THOSE BASTARD toying with my emtions like that. I think i need a tissue (snob snob)

[SuperKnuckles]

I personally loved the ending even with the inconsistencies around.

For one, I could totally relate to the entire Hazumu/Tomari thing since I experienced something like that before. My eyes were watering that whole scene.

The entire way that Yasuna healed felt a bit fast though. And in the very end, the girls saying "ano ne" ("you know!" according to fansub) seemed very mysterious and maybe a bit out of place.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by YamiDragoon

thank you for the info ^^ i'm looking forward to it.. ,|,,|(>.<)|,,|, i love kashimashi, it rocks.. i'm addicted...

and.. will it be like the extra episodes of the onegai series etc..?

i won't ever forget kashimashi, my favorite anime.. i love every scene, every character and.. everything.. o.O
hope the manga will be released in german too >.<'''

If you don't already know, there's a group doing scanlations of the manga that can be found via manganews.net (I think that's safe to point out).
The storyline is a bit different...okay... a fair amount different but has some merit to it.

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by KaneDragon

Ahem. There is something that just HAS to be said: Ayuki~ is a per~vert~

Yeah, I noticed that, too...

As for the 13th episode, I've seen a few series that had extra episodes as OVAs (or is it OAVs? I see it both ways... ), and none of them have made any kind of major changes to the way the original series ended. Mostly they've just kind of tied up loose ends. So I really don't see something that's as major an upheaval as Yasuna dumping Hazumu in the cards. Yasuna's feelings for Hazumu are probably the most constant element in the entire series. I just can't see her tossing all that away in the last five seconds of the broadcast episodes.

Besides, Yasuna does smile slightly as she starts to tell Hazumu whatever she's going to tell her. If she's breaking up, I can't see her being that sadistic. And Hazumu does smile excitedly when she's about to tell Tomari whatever she's going to tell her. Even if Hazumu wants to be with Tomari, there's still the whole getting dumped thing to deal with, and I can't see Hazumu brushing that off quite so easily.

Most likely, the 13th episode will involve Sora and Jan-puu coming back for some reason or another, so we can have more of the same gags that we had before, and maybe Tomari will come back into the relationship enough to make it something of a 3-way again. But I can't really see anything more significant coming out of it.

[Vexx]

I could be cruel and point out Canvas 2 with its closing credit "wtf" (at least for a lot of people) in the last episode.

My gut feel is that Yasuna will tell Hazumu that cutting Tomari out isn't healthy for the three of them - that they're complementary... but I'm completely speculating. Just have to wait and see what they actually do in the ep. In the meantime, we do have the manga to chew on.

[Sorrow-K]

This was a rather trite ending. I found Hazumu's pity-relationship choice really difficult to swallow and ultimately I consider it a copout. I think Blimey said it best: this has all the makings of a very unhealthy relationship, and personally I think it requires a real suspension of disbelief to consider it a happy ending.

I suppose in the end you just can't build an entire story from plot devices. Yasuna's YURIVISION made for some interesting drama at the time, but inevitably it, combined with Hazumu's weak nature as a character, lead to the soft ending we saw. I think it would have been a far more interesting and stronger ending if Hazumu had chosen Tomari (or possibly even either) and Yasuna had overcome YURIVISION on her own, but I suppose trying to develop the characters such that that sort of ending is believable would have taken far more time than they had.

Anyway, overall it was an interesting story that was seriously let down by its disappointing ending. A few interesting characters and concepts, but it was riddled by little flaws that all happened to come to a fore at the end.

[YamiDragoon]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

This was a rather trite ending. I found Hazumu's pity-relationship choice really difficult to swallow and ultimately I consider it a copout. I think Blimey said it best: this has all the makings of a very unhealthy relationship, and personally I think it requires a real suspension of disbelief to consider it a happy ending.

I suppose in the end you just can't build an entire story from plot devices. Yasuna's YURIVISION made for some interesting drama at the time, but inevitably it, combined with Hazumu's weak nature as a character, lead to the soft ending we saw. I think it would have been a far more interesting and stronger ending if Hazumu had chosen Tomari (or possibly even either) and Yasuna had overcome YURIVISION on her own, but I suppose trying to develop the characters such that that sort of ending is believable would have taken far more time than they had.

Anyway, overall it was an interesting story that was seriously let down by its disappointing ending. A few interesting characters and concepts, but it was riddled by little flaws that all happened to come to a fore at the end.

there are always different people and different opinions, you know..
i am exactly like hazumu so i can understand her feelings, thoughts and everything in this series because it's just like my own feelings at all..

still, sometimes i don't understand why people think some things, like kashimashi, are not that good.. *sighs* but it's okay.. still, i don't like the people's end up there with the "yasuna wants a boy" thing.. ^^''' for me, my ending is the most fitting.. people talk about yasuna like a naughty love toy o.O

whatever.. i'm glad it ended like this.. it was the ending i was hoping for.. ^^

[nophone]

at first I expect to see a funny anime that guy have to adapt his daily live to become a girl so I was almost disappoint when Hazumu is very fine with his change of gender (I expect a little like Tenshi na Konamaiki) but continue watching I reallized that the change of gender is not a big deal. the creator made it so the relationship between the three of them become more complicated. when I see this kind of anime (harem, a bunch of girls love the same guy), I always rooted for one girl and endup happy if the girl I rooted be chosen or sad if not. but for this series each one have her own reason to love Hazumu and it very well balance I can't rooted for one girl till the last episode. this kind of anime, the ending is almost alike, being a very nice guy, indecisive and hurt everyone. but in case of Hazumu I can't really blame her. she also has her own problem. (and she is too cute to be blamed )

as for trivial things, the humor scene done by Sora-san and Jump-chan is quite funny and I thought it would be better if it has more. the woman sensei is quite annoying. what good to throw her in the scene, the only thing that her done well is fell head down in to the hole.

Spoiler for Hazumu and Tomori:

the ending episode is very dramatic, very emotional. Hazume and Tomori scence almost calling my tears. espectialy the conversation on the bike and when Tomori broke out calling Hazumu when she's about to leave.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

I think Yasuna realized that Tomari and Hazumu belong together and decided to end the relationship to force Hazamu to realieze her true feelings. ANyway thats just my guess but i guess well havet o wait for the evil producers to realease the 13th episode in the fall THOSE BASTARD toying with my emtions like that. I think i need a tissue (snob snob)

agree with Sinestra, the last scence after the credit that left question for some people I thought I understand that and it very good idea to left it untold. I'm satisfied with my own conclusion (which I find that almost the same as Sinestra's). so more episode is not necessary but if they decide to release something I hope it will not relate to the main story anymore.

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by nophone

at first I expect to see a funny anime that guy have to adapt his daily live to become a girl so I was almost disappoint when Hazumu is very fine with his change of gender (I expect a little like Tenshi na Konamaiki)

Spoiler for Tenshi na Konamaiki spoilers:

Well, to be fair, the main action of TnK takes place several years after that incident, and she was never really a guy to begin with. And her understanding of men and 'manliness' was always rather fuzzy because of that.

But yeah, in TnK and here, it would have been more interesting to see a character really have to adjust to a new body. Instead of someone who takes the sex change so casually. Maybe if Hazumu had been more masculine... It still has potential.

Bishounen Ayuki, anyone? Tomari, not so much, and possibly Yasuna, but I can definitely see Ayuki has a diabolical bishounen (*thinking of Aizen*)...
Oh, the traps-yet-not-traps...

Spoiler for reposted, for great justice:

[daemoness]

Ouch, the scenes between Tomari and Hazumu hurt. I was almost sure Hazumu was going to change her mind.

I am not too happy about the ending. It didn't make me believe Hazumu picked Yasuna over Tomari for any reason other then Yasuna's vision problem.

Maybe if Ayuki really does like Tomari they would be better together though, Hazumu has hurt Tomari so much, Tomari might do better with someone more dependable.

It was so sad.

[L33tmaster]

I was really disappointed, it reminded me of the ending for Ichigo 100%, where the girl I thought the main character should've ended up with wasn't chosen. Kind of spoils the whole thing.

I of course was cheering for Tomari/Hazumu simply because their personalities definitely fit together and it's not a relationship based upon pity. I mean imagine the guilt of causing someone to go blind to the world.

I'm still confused about the brief scenes at the end... I guess they put that in to satisfy people who were unhappy about who he chose (seeing from this forum, that'd be most people)

[riznar]

While I think Hazumu chose Yasuna out of duty/pity, everyone seems to be forgetting that their relationship wasn't based on it.

nophone, we have opposite tastes.

[reki]

The look Hazumu had on her face towards the end as she ran past Tomari, struck me as a determined look, not an upset one. I don't believe Yasuna dumped her, but may have felt safe enough to open up the relationship because whatever it is that Hazumu is going to tell Tomari, she's looking extremely happy about it, and the running across the river, hints that maybe she is going to ask her to be a bride again. Hazumu's choice of Yasuna was more than pity. Yasuna was the first love for H. Tomari wasn't originally showing any romantic interest in H until Y turned HIM down. I felt she was a little selfish there. Towards the end when Yasunas affliction became greater, and Hazumu chose to be at her side, I think it was a growing maturity for Tomari to let it go, that sometimes someone else's need is greater than her own. Yasuna wasn't looking for pity, she was ready to go it alone at Grandma's. Since in the end, Yasuna got her vision back to normal, she may have been able to mature enough to be able to not be so needy of H. IT struck me that at the end was when Hazumu told Yasuna, she loved her. Can't recall if she ever told that to Tomari or not, though she thought about it for both of them throughout a lot of the anime. Maybe if she had just said so to them both earlier, instead of making it this big choice. Its not like she was going to love one and not the other all of a sudden because she decided. I think Hazumu made the choice a long time ago(even before her affliction became evident), but Tomari changed the rules of her standing with Hazumu. Just my thoughts.

[Vexx]

I still suspect the 12th ep ending is a red herring ... that either a threesome or something that ends up wtih Tomari and Hazumu over the long haul is going to be the 13th ep kicker in the DVD set.... eh... we'll find out in a few months.
Til then the manga is still going strong and off in its own direction.

[TDRKZ]

k guys to clear it up. The fansub is quite accurate about the ano ne. Its basically starting to say something aka "you know what"

[Vexx]

uh, yeah.. we knew that. "well..." "you know...." "ummmmm...." are other possible meanings but all mean about the same thing.

The mystery is what each is about to say.... which is what the 13th ep might clear up.

[Keitaro]

I really liked this series until the end. I think what they did was so cruel to Tomari. I felt so bad for her when she and Hazumu had their final last moment together. After all she said to Hazumu, he still choosed Yasuna over her. I'm a bit lost for words here. I have nothing against Yasuna at all but I really don't see how he could love her so much more then Tomari.

Anyway's, after watching the rolling credits in ep12 as others so have mention she she says "ano ne" then lets go of Hazumu's hand, then we see Hazumu crossing the rocks again and looking back at Tomari and again with "ano ne". I think this could possibly imply that we might get a surprise Hazumu x Tomari ending after all. We will soon know enough in that extra ep13.

[iamtetsuo]

I don't care what most of you say this last episode was so beautiful, I was moved to tears more than once. I am so glad they didn't go for a three way love triangle ending, thats the boring stupid easy way out. While it is true that Yasuna did have an unfair advantage, could any of you have left her knowing that you could cure her? Not only that Yasuna and Hazumu had love-love, not friendship-love. I am completely pleased with the decision Hazumu made, and so happy that Yasuna was healed.
Whoever said that throwing the sensei in there cheapened the credits I have to almost agree. Had they not shown her fall into a sewer it would have been nice, but the whole falling into the sewer bit, completely threw it off. Just be glad they had the sense not to have her show up in the episode proper.

I hope that the "you know..." scenes are just red herrings. If it does turn into a triangle I'll be sick and angry at the director. LEAVE IT HOW IT IS!

[Vexx]

I agree the episode was beautiful .... really heartfelt. But I'm not clear on how a triangle is an "easy way out".... its a tough balancing act and requires Tomari and Yasuna to care about each other very strongly.
The "coin flip" monogamous solutions are often the easy way out for the writers. I do have to say in this series they made sure that either choice was painful but.... I don't think Hazumu "chose" so much as was driven by the needs equation.

My money is on the idea that down the road, Yasuna decides that Hazumu's "choice" really wasn't a choice ... Hazumu *had* to choose Yasuna for fear of leaving her permamently exiled to a grey oblivion. Yasuna will free Hazumu (perhaps she goes to Paris to study music) and tell her to go to the person who needs her most now: Tomari.
That theory depends on the idea that Yasuna has enough self confidence now that she doesn't relapse if Hazumu steps out of sight.

Pure speculation on my part --- (I'm not really a "Tomari shipper" or a "Yasuna shipper", just trying to figure out what a 13th ep might have in store for us)

yeah.... having the comic buffoon teacher suddenly be serious at the end didn't fit --- even Asuta had more depth than she had (and I'm kind of happy to see the manga treats his dilemma about his friend more seriously while still adding some humor).