AnimeSuki Forums

theacefrehley · 2009-03-31, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Spoiler for Episode4 patch:

A name reading doesn't need necessarily be the same as the common nouns reading
If it was meant to be the number 13, it'd be juu-san, but it is a name.

三 has a bunch of nanori, among them, there's the 'za'. In this case, it's not going that far as with Yagami Raito or Batora.

Jan-Poo · 2009-03-31, 10:01

Ah you mean he might be Beatrice's son? that would be interesting ^^; (OMG! Then BeatricexBattler is incest!)
But there's still the possibility that Battler has born in 1967 but on late october, november or dicember. That would make him still 18 at the time of the game.

theacefrehley · 2009-03-31, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Ah you mean he might be Beatrice's son? that would be interesting ^^; (OMG! Then BeatricexBattler is incest!)
But there's still the possibility that Battler has born in 1967 but on late october, november or dicember. That would make him still 18 at the time of the game.

To tell the truth, if not Battler's, I think Beato might even be Jessica's mother (both are blonde right? hehe)
And Natsuhi had trouble to have babies (maybe sterile?), so, if she, Beatrice, was a prisoner, who knows what kind of perversions Kinzo (and Krauss) might have made her go through...

And also;
As for Battler;
When the mysterious number, 07151129, appeared at the end of EP3, we learned that Battler's birthday is July, 15th. (unless this date is wrong and he was indoctrinated to believe this is the date of his birthday)

Jan-Poo · 2009-03-31, 10:27

Uhm i have a question that requires some knowledge about japan and japanese school system.

My limited knowledge tells me that learning how to read kanji takes several years to be fully mastered. I also know that Kanjis are divided in differents "grades" from 1 to 9. This classification comes from the fact that on the japanese school system each grade teaches a set of kanjis.

So on grade1 childrean learns 80 kanji
On grade 2 they learn 160 kanji
Grade 3 = 200
Grade 4 = 200
Grade 5 = 185
Grade 6 = 180

and that's it for the elementary school

On junior high school they need to learn all the remaining 939 kanji that are commonly used, which are practically the same amount they learned on the previous 6 years.

Supposing that i'm right so far, and considering that first grade starts at age 6, Maria is only supposed to know around 500 kanji. So is it normal for her to be able to read Beatrice's letter and Beatrice's epitaph without any problem?

Considering that she is also able to read and understand english one could says she's far beyond any child of her age, however according to the story she does terribly at school. I guess she is very bad at math and other scientific lessons, but wouldn't her ability to read and understand languages deserve a praise?

Jan-Poo · 2009-03-31, 10:40

Spoiler for episode3:

Kitsu · 2009-03-31, 12:26

Spoiler:

rogerpepitone · 2009-03-31, 12:56

In the case of Ten Little Indians / And Then There Were None, the villain had the luxury of choosing the guests to fit his plan. In this case, "Beatrice" had very little control over who would attend. (Kinzo, Krauss, Natsuhi, and possibly others, could manipulate the duty roster to affect which servants would be on duty, but otherwise, who would attend can't be changed.)

Spoiler for 10 Little Indians, book version:

rogerpepitone · 2009-03-31, 13:03

Wildspec: Considering the age gap, what if Rosa is actually Kinzo's granddaughter, done to cover a teen pregnancy? (Wouldn't seem to matter much, unless she's Krauss's daughter, in which case she might come ahead of Jessica in succession.)

maximilianjenus · 2009-03-31, 17:00

I have personally been through that, being able to do in school stuff that you are not supossed to do does not get any praise.

Spoiler for ange's place:

WhiteFrost · 2009-03-31, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

In the case of Ten Little Indians / And Then There Were None, the villain had the luxury of choosing the guests to fit his plan. In this case, "Beatrice" had very little control over who would attend. (Kinzo, Krauss, Natsuhi, and possibly others, could manipulate the duty roster to affect which servants would be on duty, but otherwise, who would attend can't be changed.)

Spoiler for 10 Little Indians, book version:

I'm not sure that Umineko would be exactly as And Then There Were None, instead of the villain planning everything in detail it should be enough to know that exactly these people are going to attend and realize that the situation is perfect and use that to kill them.
In a way that might fit to why the killer would wait so long, he/she simply waited for the best moment to strike.

Kitsu · 2009-04-01, 08:37

Like WhiteFrost said it is not exactly like And Then there were none. But there is also the possibility that the culprit planned beforehand how he would do it's, because it's the family conference he knew who would attend which is a advantage. Also it was said that this year (1986) no one was missing from the siblings, which suggests that one or two couldn't make it to the conference before. So the culprit waited with his plan till finally everyone was attending.

And again..because it really is strange

Am I the only one that thinks that it is really strange that except Kinzo everyone of the old Ushiromiya died? It is too much for a coincidence. Also that whole thing with the Fukoin House (the orphanage was called that or?),feels a little bit strange.

Jan-Poo · 2009-04-01, 09:06

I find more strange that Kinzo is allowed to make children work for him. I mean... it's Japan, there should be laws that forbid that... isn't..?

Compulsory education in Japan lasts until the end of junior high (age 15), so while it's not strange Kanon and Shannon do not attend school right now, i find strange the idea that they used to take the same boat Jessica is boarding every day and then went back to Rokkenjima just to work even more.

Kitsu · 2009-04-01, 09:24

It's fiction...but Shannon goes to school that for sure. She said that herself in episode 2, I don't know about Kanon though. He seems not to because he was all like "Whoa that's a high school?" in Episode 2.
As far I know the world children rights say that children with the age of 16 are allowed to work as far it doesn't collide with their school or being exploited,hurt or mistreat in any way. Also they are not allowed to work longer then 40 hours a week. Which Kanon and Shannon do. So yeah Kinzo violates the rule of child labor. But it takes place in 1986 I don't know if Japan had signed the contract at that time. Also someone said Shannon is 16, she worked there for 10 years. A 6 year old maid!?!? OMG Kinzo is a pervert...*coughcough* No seriously what would anyone want with a 6 year old maid? Kanon started to work with 13 ...so yeah they violated the rules of child labor so badly that it makes me want to throw up. To add that the whole Fukoin house is allowed? Shouldn't orphanages support the children and not teach them how to be a servants and tell them "You are furniture! NOT HUMAN!" !?!?!?

Still the surviving of Kinzo alone for me is just too much luck.

Cola91 · 2009-04-01, 11:24

Screw the rules!! Kinzo has money!

Mi-Delta · 2009-04-01, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitsu

To add that the whole Fukoin house is allowed? Shouldn't orphanages support the children and not teach them how to be a servants and tell them "You are furniture! NOT HUMAN!" !?!?!?

I think the Fukuin House also abuses some children and tell them that...

Kitsu · 2009-04-01, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mi-Delta

I think the Fukuin House also abuses some children and tell them that...

Physical abuse? Well I don't know, it would explain Kanon's "I-had-a-bad-childhood-screw-you-I'm-allowed-to-be-the-sad-silent-bastard-syndrome" but I think phsical abuse is a little too much. I think mental abuse is enough

rogerpepitone · 2009-04-01, 14:58

Just rereading. Battler mentioned in ep. 1 that Rosa is good about remembering her promises, wrt. Kumasawa's tea. In light of ep. 4, she must not be making an effort.

Jan-Poo · 2009-04-01, 15:15

probably Battler doesn't really know her true face.

Kitsu · 2009-04-01, 16:03

Another thing that annoys me...if the game board was truly cute at the forth October then Rosa must have had the tea already and so she has to bring it in every episode

rogerpepitone · 2009-04-01, 17:14

Kanon mentioned he learned harmonica and recorder in elementary school.

As for the tea, I was taking it more that Rosa does care about keeping her promises, except towards her daughter.

2009-03-31, 10:01	Link #722
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Ah you mean he might be Beatrice's son? that would be interesting ^^; (OMG! Then BeatricexBattler is incest!) But there's still the possibility that Battler has born in 1967 but on late october, november or dicember. That would make him still 18 at the time of the game. __________________

2009-03-31, 10:27	Link #724
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Uhm i have a question that requires some knowledge about japan and japanese school system. My limited knowledge tells me that learning how to read kanji takes several years to be fully mastered. I also know that Kanjis are divided in differents "grades" from 1 to 9. This classification comes from the fact that on the japanese school system each grade teaches a set of kanjis. So on grade1 childrean learns 80 kanji On grade 2 they learn 160 kanji Grade 3 = 200 Grade 4 = 200 Grade 5 = 185 Grade 6 = 180 and that's it for the elementary school On junior high school they need to learn all the remaining 939 kanji that are commonly used, which are practically the same amount they learned on the previous 6 years. Supposing that i'm right so far, and considering that first grade starts at age 6, Maria is only supposed to know around 500 kanji. So is it normal for her to be able to read Beatrice's letter and Beatrice's epitaph without any problem? Considering that she is also able to read and understand english one could says she's far beyond any child of her age, however according to the story she does terribly at school. I guess she is very bad at math and other scientific lessons, but wouldn't her ability to read and understand languages deserve a praise? __________________ Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2009-03-31 at 11:07.

2009-03-31, 10:40	Link #725
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Spoiler for episode3: Yeah it's hard to believe that the old dirty man didn't do anything. There might be indeed more about what happened to the real Beatrice, something tells me that in the end we'll end up seeing her as the victim of an atrocious crime whose all of the Ushiromiya in a way or another are guilty. Yeah maybe we'll end up thinking that they deserve to die ^^;;; __________________

2009-03-31, 12:26	Link #726
Kitsu The unlucky one Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hiding	Spoiler: Well even if something terrible happened to Beatrice. I don't think that their would be a reason for at least Kanon, Shannon and Maria to die. They weren't even born and Battler/Jessica were more likely born about that time. But I have to agree maybe everyone on that island on that did something ehm...not so good in the past. Which would fit into the picture because Umineko is very similar to Agatha Christie's "And then there were none" (Is that the right title? Only know the german title). Also...am I the only one that thinks that it is really strange that except Kinzo everyone of the old Ushiromiya died? It is too much for a coincidence . Also that whole thing with the Fukoin House (the orphanage),.....feels a little bit strange.

2009-03-31, 12:56	Link #727
rogerpepitone Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	In the case of Ten Little Indians / And Then There Were None, the villain had the luxury of choosing the guests to fit his plan. In this case, "Beatrice" had very little control over who would attend. (Kinzo, Krauss, Natsuhi, and possibly others, could manipulate the duty roster to affect which servants would be on duty, but otherwise, who would attend can't be changed.) Spoiler for 10 Little Indians, book version: The book ends with everyone dying, the police ultimately fail, and is finally solved when somebody finds a note in a bottle from the killer.

2009-03-31, 13:03	Link #728
rogerpepitone Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	Wildspec: Considering the age gap, what if Rosa is actually Kinzo's granddaughter, done to cover a teen pregnancy? (Wouldn't seem to matter much, unless she's Krauss's daughter, in which case she might come ahead of Jessica in succession.)

2009-03-31, 17:00	Link #729
maximilianjenus [E] Join Date: Mar 2008	I have personally been through that, being able to do in school stuff that you are not supossed to do does not get any praise. Spoiler for ange's place: About ange being able to exist on both the "real world" and the "meta world" I think it's a case similar to that of akasaka, in which her real world antics are what normally happens after eva beatrice's arc, and somehow all her build up feelings allow her to get to the meta world, just like riak brought akasaka to the last kakera. since she is being left in the meta world, she does nto lose her memories. There is a high chance of her having a lot of information battler lacks because of ehr investigations.

2009-04-01, 08:37	Link #731
Kitsu The unlucky one Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hiding	Like WhiteFrost said it is not exactly like And Then there were none. But there is also the possibility that the culprit planned beforehand how he would do it's, because it's the family conference he knew who would attend which is a advantage. Also it was said that this year (1986) no one was missing from the siblings, which suggests that one or two couldn't make it to the conference before. So the culprit waited with his plan till finally everyone was attending. And again..because it really is strange Am I the only one that thinks that it is really strange that except Kinzo everyone of the old Ushiromiya died? It is too much for a coincidence. Also that whole thing with the Fukoin House (the orphanage was called that or?),feels a little bit strange.

2009-04-01, 09:06	Link #732
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	I find more strange that Kinzo is allowed to make children work for him. I mean... it's Japan, there should be laws that forbid that... isn't..? Compulsory education in Japan lasts until the end of junior high (age 15), so while it's not strange Kanon and Shannon do not attend school right now, i find strange the idea that they used to take the same boat Jessica is boarding every day and then went back to Rokkenjima just to work even more. __________________

2009-04-01, 09:24	Link #733
Kitsu The unlucky one Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hiding	It's fiction...but Shannon goes to school that for sure. She said that herself in episode 2, I don't know about Kanon though. He seems not to because he was all like "Whoa that's a high school?" in Episode 2. As far I know the world children rights say that children with the age of 16 are allowed to work as far it doesn't collide with their school or being exploited,hurt or mistreat in any way. Also they are not allowed to work longer then 40 hours a week. Which Kanon and Shannon do. So yeah Kinzo violates the rule of child labor. But it takes place in 1986 I don't know if Japan had signed the contract at that time. Also someone said Shannon is 16, she worked there for 10 years. A 6 year old maid!?!? OMG Kinzo is a pervert...coughcough No seriously what would anyone want with a 6 year old maid? Kanon started to work with 13 ...so yeah they violated the rules of child labor so badly that it makes me want to throw up. To add that the whole Fukoin house is allowed? Shouldn't orphanages support the children and not teach them how to be a servants and tell them "You are furniture! NOT HUMAN!" !?!?!? Still the surviving of Kinzo alone for me is just too much luck. Last edited by Kitsu; 2009-04-01 at 09:39.

2009-04-01, 11:24	Link #734
Cola91 Member Join Date: Oct 2008	Screw the rules!! Kinzo has money!

2009-04-01, 14:58	Link #737
rogerpepitone Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	Just rereading. Battler mentioned in ep. 1 that Rosa is good about remembering her promises, wrt. Kumasawa's tea. In light of ep. 4, she must not be making an effort.

2009-04-01, 15:15	Link #738
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	probably Battler doesn't really know her true face. __________________

2009-04-01, 16:03	Link #739
Kitsu The unlucky one Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hiding	Another thing that annoys me...if the game board was truly cute at the forth October then Rosa must have had the tea already and so she has to bring it in every episode

2009-04-01, 17:14	Link #740
rogerpepitone Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	Kanon mentioned he learned harmonica and recorder in elementary school. As for the tea, I was taking it more that Rosa does care about keeping her promises, except towards her daughter.