Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[hero147]

Originally Posted by zalem

I'm really glad they didn't waste more time on Ashford. I'd say they wasted enough time on it in R2, to the detriment of the rest of the story. R2 was really poorly paced unfortunately. That whole Lulu memory wipe thing should have never happened. They should have picked up where season 1 left off. Then there wouldn't have been so much time wasted resetting things in R2.

I liked the Lelouch memory-wiped thing. But I would've hoped that Code Geass became a 3 season anime, since it had a lot of material. However, if they decide to include all plotholes, I could also see it inching towards half a season 4. But putting a story of this magnitude in 2 seasons, makes it generally inconsistent.

[darthfury78]

Originally Posted by zalem

Well, maybe it's Sunrise's fault cause of the time slot change? Not sure how much that had to play in this whole mess.

I was dying for Lelouch to get to the point where he just leaves damn Ashford. Everytime I thought he would, he'd go back. They took way too long cutting it out finally.

And yeah, I agree with the above poster. Milly was a side character and never anything more. And Lelouch certainly would not have confided anything about his alternate life to her.

The original intention for R2 was to continue where Stage 25 left off right away. Had R2 was balanced at the same pace as S1, we wouldn't be talking about Ashford Academy too much because no one would have noticed it. The only reason why some people got fed up with the Ashford scenes in R2 because it was nothing more than a re-introduction of things that already happened in S1. Ashford Academy was important to the story as much as the rebellion and Geass. But it took up at least half the season, which turned out to be a comedy than anything else. That was hardly the case in S1 that much.

With regards to Milly, she was just as important as Shirley in Lelouch's life. The situation between Shirley x Lelouch was the result of the tragedy involving her father, and the revelation of her feelings towards Lelouch in S1. However, we might have sceen some sort of repeat of that moment between Milly and Lelouch because of Shirley's death. Lelouch didn't stay at Ashford because of the Ashford family. He stayed at Ashford because of Milly.

All I'll say is that if R2 was produced in the same manner as S1, no one would be talking about Ashford Academy as a big joke. The only way that Lelouch would ever confide to Milly is if she already knew that Lelouch was Zero because she knows his true nature(It's hard not to notice Lelouch's true motive if Milly had known him since he was 12 or 13 years old), as C.C. did. Ashford Academy was gone by Turn 12 with Milly's graduation. Turn 13 to Turn 25 was one of the biggest rush jobs that I have ever seen, as far as the story goes. It might have been better to have simply focus on the origin of the Geass and the Geass Cult/The World of C for R2. Everything else could have come later on if they got to do another season. The last 13 episodes was simply doing seasons 3 and 4 into one. A remake could certainly clear a lot of things up.

And while some would be against the idea, I have a feelings that Code Geass R2 might follow the example of Mai Hime with an alternate universe retelling to the way if was suppose to be, as S1 had shown. I think that the producers miss the feel of S1 because it made so much sense than R2.

[Jeffry2009]

Originally Posted by darthfury78

When it came to balancing Ashford Academy, The Rebellion, and the Geass, Season Two did a very bad job, in contrast to S1. At least in the S1, everything flowed smoothly. In R2, it was a reintroduction of the Ashford characters in the first half of R2 while the second half was rushed. It looked so out of character for Lelouch because he would have made sure that he returned to Ashford Academy after he destroyed the Geass Cult.

From there, he would have paid tribute to Shirley's memorial with his friends. In addition, he would have confided his agony with Milly, the only other close female friend at Ashford who understood what he was going through. Kallen and C.C. would not have been there for obvious reasons.

Had Lelouch returned to Ashford Academy, he would not have contacted Suzaku about Nunnally. Nor would he had confess to regaining his memories back, or go to the shrine to meet Suzaku knowing that it was a trap waiting to happen by Turn 17. Therefore, there would have been no way for Suzaku or Schniezel to prove that Lelouch was Zero. Which meant that Nina's boob would not have been discharged by Suzaku. Thus, Zero's Requiem would not have come into effect because Lelouch would have still have the UFN at his disposal. So he would not have needed to rule Britannia after he had defeated Emperor Charles plan to re-create the world by destroying the Gods. Lelouch would have let his siblings fight each other, knowing that the only person who would come out on top would have been Schniezel.

The ending of Code Geass would have turned out quite different for Lelouch if he had gone back to Ashford Academy after avenging Shirley's death.

Yeah, exactly. Let me just say, BIGGEST. DISSAPOINMENT. EVER. Rivalz & Milly should be learned the truth about lelouch by received a letter from him. No wonder why that thing was so rushed although it just show only a few seconds! My mind was bothering me after i've seen the reaction of rivalz from the post that i've mentioned last time during TURN 22.

[Rising Dragon]

Darth, I have to admit, you're pretty damn persistent for someone who said that if he didn't get Milly/Lelouch ending in R2's ending, they'd leave this section of the site forever.

Originally Posted by jafri

Yeah, exactly. Let me just say, BIGGEST. DISSAPOINMENT. EVER. Rivalz & Milly should be learned the truth about lelouch by received a letter from him. No wonder why that thing was so rushed although it just show only a few seconds! My mind was bothering me after i've seen the reaction of rivalz from the post that i've mentioned last time during TURN 22.

Please don't encourage him.

[Jeffry2009]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Please don't encourage him.

No, I didn't encourage him. i just tell him about some of my thoughts about this show, That is all. i meant to me, that was quite dissapointing to me about Rivalz & milly thing.

@darthfury78:- the post that replied to me was, aren't you double posted that?

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by jafri

No, I didn't encourage him. i just tell him about some of my thoughts about this show, That is all. i meant to me, that was quite dissapointing to me about Rivalz & milly thing.

I suppose, but Milly and Rivalz were never that important to the storyline. Though Code Geass never would've happened were it not for Rivalz. But just keep in mind that Darth's decided to reject Code Geass R2 as canon solely because Lelouch and Milly didn't hook up in the end. So please, try not to encourage him.

[Momosan]

Give Lelouch a motorcycle and remove Milly from the series and replace her with a generic character. Does the show change at all? Answer is no. Really I have no idea why they even bothered to introduce the characters since I found little about them humorous or entertaining.

[Anime Daisuki]

Originally Posted by Momosan

Give Lelouch a motorcycle and remove Milly from the series and replace her with a generic character. Does the show change at all? Answer is no. Really I have no idea why they even bothered to introduce the characters since I found little about them humorous or entertaining.

That can be said about any character then. Replace Lelouch with some other prodigy and the story wouldn't have changed. Replace Kallen with some other girl equally skilled and the story wouldn't have changed.

[XenophunK]

Originally Posted by Anime Daisuki

That can be said about any character then. Replace Lelouch with some other prodigy and the story wouldn't have changed. Replace Kallen with some other girl equally skilled and the story wouldn't have changed.

It would change the artwork. Now replace C.C.- I WON'T ALLOW IT

[Hari Michiru]

Originally Posted by XenophunK

It would change the artwork. Now replace C.C.- I WON'T ALLOW IT

I would personally burn down Sunrise if they did that.

[darthfury78]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Darth, I have to admit, you're pretty damn persistent for someone who said that if he didn't get Milly/Lelouch ending in R2's ending, they'd leave this section of the site forever.

And most people are pretty darn persistent on Kallen and C.C. being his love interest. Not to mention Shirley. But yet disregard Milly? I can't understand why my idea of Milly x Lelouch was BS just because they did not interact in R2? I never said there would be a Milly x Lelouch ending. But an acknowledgement of Milly's feelings to Lelouch would have been satisfying to me. I did say that I would not talk too much about Milly x Lelouch as the series is over and Lelouch is dead. I've decided to move past that and let everyone talk about Kallen, C.C., and Shirley. There are still other a few CG issues that I want to talk about. After that, I'll stop posting.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by darthfury78

And most people are pretty darn persistent on Kallen and C.C. being his love interest. Not to mention Shirley. But yet disregard Milly?

Because there's no development, just Milly's usual playful self. She never really tried. The others did.

Originally Posted by darthfury78

I can't understand why my idea of Milly x Lelouch was BS just because they did not interact in R2? I never said there would be a Milly x Lelouch ending. But an acknowledgement of Milly's feelings to Lelouch would have been satisfying to me.

Milly's feelings were covered outside the main series, and she's not the type to get in the way.

Originally Posted by darthfury78

I did say that I would not talk too much about Milly x Lelouch as the series is over and Lelouch is dead. I've decided to move past that and let everyone talk about Kallen, C.C., and Shirley. There are still other a few CG issues that I want to talk about. After that, I'll stop posting.

All of which happen to include Milly. Just saying.

[Jeffry2009]

I meant was, it was left unsolved about what happened to the ashford academy after an aftermath of the R2 ending to me.

[darthfury78]

Originally Posted by Momosan

Give Lelouch a motorcycle and remove Milly from the series and replace her with a generic character. Does the show change at all? Answer is no. Really I have no idea why they even bothered to introduce the characters since I found little about them humorous or entertaining.

For R2, a lot of interesting things were removed in favor of re-introducing the Ashford gang, which was a complete waste of time. If Sunrise wanted to introduce Code Geass to the general audience, they should have rebroadcast Code Geass Season 1 for the Sunday 5PM timeslot instead of forcing the production staff to alter the "Planned" storyline for R2. This would have resolved a lot of issues quite nicely without the trouble of changing the original plans for the second season. The Ashford Academy scenes from the first season were interesting. However, in R2, it was a repeat of some of the events of the first season. They made it into a BS comedy. This is why it was a waste of time for the first 12 episodes.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by darthfury78

For R2, a lot of interesting things were removed in favor of re-introducing the Ashford gang, which was a complete waste of time. If Sunrise wanted to introduce Code Geass to the general audience, they should have rebroadcast Code Geass Season 1 for the Sunday 5PM timeslot instead of forcing the production staff to alter the "Planned" storyline for R2. This would have resolved a lot of issues quite nicely without the trouble of changing the original plans for the second season. The Ashford Academy scenes from the first season were interesting. However, in R2, it was a repeat of some of the events of the first season. They made it into a BS comedy. This is why it was a waste of time for the first 12 episodes.

That would be impossible

In Japan a company has to buy the TV slots that they are in. You can't tv slots for reruns it would be a collasal waste of money.

I haven't heard of a tv series that has become popular due to reruns since the original Gundam series did it.

[darthfury78]

Originally Posted by jafri

I meant was, it was left unsolved about what happened to the ashford academy after an aftermath of the R2 ending to me.

A lot of things were left unresolved. Especially the potential Milly x Lelouch moment, which was never settled. After episode 12, Lelouch never goes back to Ashford Academy again. And the last 13 episodes were the biggest rush job that I have ever seen. For example, Dietard's death was so out of character as he was a man who took a neutral position of covering his story. His death was the most pathetic moment of the entire series. Another example was when Lelouch went to the shrine to meet Suzaku. Why would Lelouch tell Suzaku that he had regained his memories? In addition, why would he had gone to the shrine, knowing that it was a trap? This was so out of character for Lelouch because he should have known that by doing so would mean losing his Zero persona, the Black Knight/UFN, and Ashford Academy all at once. Thus he could never go back to his way of life. So Zero's Requiem was the only way to escape by ensuring that he dies in front of the world's stage.

A lot of people will try to argue that Milly was not so important to Lelouch or the story. But since the writers never had the chance to develop Milly's relationship with Lelouch, most of the Kallen x C.C. fans were proven right, and I was proven wrong. However, If you look back at the first season and the additional source material, there a few interactions between Milly and Lelouch, which were some of the most interesting revelations that have ever read. They would have made a better couple than either C.C. or Kallen. Just go back to my previous postings. It covers my opinions on the Milly x Lelouch relationship.

[darthfury78]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I suppose, but Milly and Rivalz were never that important to the storyline. Though Code Geass never would've happened were it not for Rivalz. But just keep in mind that Darth's decided to reject Code Geass R2 as canon solely because Lelouch and Milly didn't hook up in the end. So please, try not to encourage him.

That is not true at all. I had decide to ignore R2 because a lot of things were left out. Not just because of Milly and Lelouch relationship development. We'll never know how things would have turned out for the "Planned Version" of R2 unless they decide to do a Mai Hime type resetting so that every could be explained the way it was intended. I did not care if Lelouch died or not. What upsets me about R2 was that fact that it was rushed, and a lot of things that went on in the first 12 episodes was nothing more than a retelling of some of the Ashford Academy scenes that were repackaged. Such a waste of time for some of us who loved the first season.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by darthfury78

A lot of things were left unresolved. Especially the potential Milly x Lelouch moment, which was never settled. After episode 12, Lelouch never goes back to Ashford Academy again. And the last 13 episodes were the biggest rush job that I have ever seen. For example, Dietard's death was so out of character as he was a man who took a neutral position of covering his story. His death was the most pathetic moment of the entire series. Another example was when Lelouch went to the shrine to meet Suzaku. Why would Lelouch tell Suzaku that he had regained his memories? In addition, why would he had gone to the shrine, knowing that it was a trap? This was so out of character for Lelouch because he should have known that by doing so would mean losing his Zero persona, the Black Knight/UFN, and Ashford Academy all at once. Thus he could never go back to his way of life. So Zero's Requiem was the only way to escape by ensuring that he dies in front of the world's stage.

A lot of people will try to argue that Milly was not so important to Lelouch or the story. But since the writers never had the chance to develop Milly's relationship with Lelouch, most of the Kallen x C.C. fans were proven right, and I was proven wrong. However, If you look back at the first season and the additional source material, there a few interactions between Milly and Lelouch, which were some of the most interesting revelations that have ever read. They would have made a better couple than either C.C. or Kallen. Just go back to my previous postings. It covers my opinions on the Milly x Lelouch relationship.

LelouchxMilly was settled, you just refused to believe it. Milly gave up Lelouch to Shirley when she graduated; she moved on with her life to a new one. It was settled. You're just in denial. As for Diethard, he was never neutral. He goes for the latest story--at the time, it was Zero. When the coup happened, he found a new story: Schneizel. That's why he was against Lelouch in the end before his death. "Your story is already over!" As for Suzaku, he told him that he regained his memories because he needed someone to protect Nunnally from the Emperor. Suzaku was the only one who could; he was the closest and Lelouch trusted him. Also, Lelouch didn't know it was a trap--Suzaku had nothing to do with that. Lelouch didn't know Suzaku wasn't a part of that.

Milly was never that important to the plot, and that's what matters--you conveniently forget that Code Geass was never about romance, and you conveniently ignore us whenever we remind you of the fact. Milly's greatest involvement in the plot was when she initiated the cat chase when Arthur had Zero's mask--it got Suzaku chasing the cat, and ended with Suzaku befriending the student council, which would later help in the end of the first season when the student council, at Nunnally's behest, went to save Suzaku from the Black Knights. That's all. You just don't want to accept it.

Originally Posted by darthfury78

That is not true at all. I had decide to ignore R2 because a lot of things were left out. Not just because of Milly and Lelouch relationship development. We'll never know how things would have turned out for the "Planned Version" of R2 unless they decide to do a Mai Hime type resetting so that every could be explained the way it was intended. I did not care if Lelouch died or not. What upsets me about R2 was that fact that it was rushed, and a lot of things that went on in the first 12 episodes was nothing more than a retelling of some of the Ashford Academy scenes that were repackaged. Such a waste of time for some of us who loved the first season.

You know, there's an edit button for a reason--use it, just like I did. Don't double post. And no, R2 wasn't rushed at all, and that's not what upsets you--the lack of Milly upsets you. Also, you're contradicting yourself; Dream_Traveller already called you on your denying R2 as canon because of Milly. Yes, the beginning had awkward pacing. It happens. But it was redeemed in the end. But oh my, you're saying Ashford was a bad idea?

Whatever happened to your previous statements of "There should've been more Ashford Academy!"? Honestly. If you're gonna argue something, try to at least have some consistency in your arguments.

[darthfury78]

Originally Posted by jafri

No, I didn't encourage him. i just tell him about some of my thoughts about this show, That is all. i meant to me, that was quite dissapointing to me about Rivalz & milly thing.

@darthfury78:- the post that replied to me was, aren't you double posted that?

It was towards your questions. I wanted to answer them because I agree that a lot of things were never talked about in R2. And the ending was a big disappointment to me. The last episode could have been an hour long special that could have covered a lot of issues, such as what did they do to Lelouch's body.

1. Did they place his body onboard the Domacles, which was aimed at the Sun?

2. How did Cornelia react to Lelouch's death, and did Nunnally filled her in on what his real objectives were?

3. Was Nina able to explain to Milly and Rivalz about Zero's Requiem?

4. What happened to Sayoko?

5. What became of Lelouch's other siblings as well as the other Nobles?

These are the questions that were never answered in Turn 25.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by darthfury78

1. Did they place his body onboard the Domacles, which was aimed at the Sun?

Doesn't matter what happened to the body--revealing what happened destroys the intentional ambiguity of the ending.

Originally Posted by darthfury78

2. How did Cornelia react to Lelouch's death, and did Nunnally filled her in on what his real objectives were?

She was against him, so his death made him ecstatic: "Lelouch the demon is dead!"

Originally Posted by darthfury78

3. Was Nina able to explain to Milly and Rivalz about Zero's Requiem?

Their reactions were not important to the story or the closure of said story, so it didn't need to be delved upon.

Originally Posted by darthfury78

4. What happened to Sayoko?

She was stuck in prison. Chances are, afterwards, she works for Nunnally, as her dedication has always been to Lelouch and Nunnally.

Originally Posted by darthfury78

5. What became of Lelouch's other siblings as well as the other Nobles?

Doesn't matter, they weren't all that important in the end. Chances are they all got vaporized in pink FLEIJA light.