Kami nomi/TWGOK - Anime Spoilers & Speculation (for manga readers only)

[Clarste]

Well, they certainly haven't proven themselves good with this particular adaptation. Even if the hype was dampened by the studio they had the opportunity to win it back by making a great series, and they didn't.

[OceanBlue]

I didn't realize so many people didn't like this adaptation. I thought it was great. The animation, the soundtrack, and the direction in general was leagues ahead of most other anime. The quality in this one, in my opinion, is probably among the best of this season.

[applejuice]

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

I didn't realize so many people didn't like this adaptation. I thought it was great. The animation, the soundtrack, and the direction in general was leagues ahead of most other anime. The quality in this one, in my opinion, is probably among the best of this season.

Well, as I go through Japanese/Korean websites, I found a lot of people didn't like this adaptation for exact same reason... ;; (Animation, soundtrack, directions etc.) Although I disagree in some part, I do think soundtrack and direction were not fitting. A lot of English-speaker fanbase was positive about it, but the main purchase power comes from Japan/Taiwan/Korea in general so it means nothing.

Originally Posted by Malandro

really? i didn't read Sarai-ya Goyou manga but a i really liked the way the story has developed in the anime, and the music and animation was great (minus the action scenes that was weird). Samurai Champloo has a good (and original) story, music and animation, same for Ergo Proxy and Michiko e Hatchin. it's sad to know that Japanese otakus just like moe and cliche shounens. TWGOK adaptation isn't that bad too.

Direction =/= Story, Art, Music
Even though certain anime had stunning set of soundtrack, beautiful art, solid story, if direction is 'boring', nothing can be achieved.

[BladeEntity]

Originally Posted by applejuice

Direction =/= Story, Art, Music
Even though certain anime had stunning set of soundtrack, beautiful art, solid story, if direction is 'boring', nothing can be achieved.

Well said, personally one of my favourite things about the anime would be the Seiyu's, especially Elsie's I though Elsie's anime counterpart was exceptionally done and made me really love Elsie more, Pacing and direction is not very good

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by applejuice

Direction =/= Story, Art, Music
Even though certain anime had stunning set of soundtrack, beautiful art, solid story, if direction is 'boring', nothing can be achieved.

What is "direction" to you? I consider it how things are presented and arranged scene-by-scene and as a whole, and like I said before, in my opinion TWGOK does it much better than other series that sell better than it. I'd like to know if there's some standard definition for it, but I'd consider music placement and some aspects of art part of the direction.

[applejuice]

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

What is "direction" to you? I consider it how things are presented and arranged scene-by-scene and as a whole, and like I said before, in my opinion TWGOK does it much better than other series that sell better than it. I'd like to know if there's some standard definition for it, but I'd consider music placement and some aspects of art part of the direction.

Shaft is great example If I try to explain what 'direction' is in animation. The reason why Shaft is 'different' is solely due to Shinbo's unique style of 'direction'. Shaft uses flying texts. Shaft uses excessive amount of close-up angle shot.

Direction includes basically everything that is included in 'conti' drawing stage, aka presentation as you said. Camera angle, placement of music, emotions of characters, movement, creative usage of limited animation, change of the scenes, composition of the episode, use of special effects etc... In broader term, even acting of seiyuus can be included there as a character specific directions.

The problem with Kami Nomi is that they are using unfitting directions for the most of its part, including gags, dramas and simple slice-of-life talking. Gag was dragged and predictably present, it isn't funny compare to panel form chibi gag from manga. For instance, in episode 1, there was scene before OP sequence where Keima was saying 'I need to save this game'. Right after that claim, teacher goes mad and there was very long close-up of the book she holds. That close-up ruins the fast-paced boke-tsukomi atmosphere coming from the most of gag scenes from manga. Fast paced gag from manga should also be fast paced in anime to give the same effect. Sadly, it didn't do that in most of the part.

Let's take another example. There was huge mismatching between the voice acting style of seiyuu and soundtrack. Keima's voice was clearly intended to emphasis the 'comedic, akeman' side of Keima's personality in manga. However, the soundtrack was enforcing the 'serious, holy' atmosphere throughout using tons of strings. That made some of the non-manga experienced viewers to be confused about what this series actually wants to do; serious romance or keima's comedy over games. This is also 'direction', way the sound and voice of casts were intended.

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by applejuice

Shaft is great example If I try to explain what 'direction' is in animation. The reason why Shaft is 'different' is solely due to Shinbo's unique style of 'direction'. Shaft uses flying texts. Shaft uses excessive amount of close-up angle shot.

Direction includes basically everything that is included in 'conti' drawing stage, aka presentation as you said. Camera angle, placement of music, emotions of characters, movement, creative usage of limited animation, change of the scenes, composition of the episode, use of special effects etc... In broader term, even acting of seiyuus can be included there as a character specific directions.

The problem with Kami Nomi is that they are using unfitting directions for the most of its part, including gags, dramas and simple slice-of-life talking. Gag was dragged and predictably present, it isn't funny compare to panel form chibi gag from manga. For instance, in episode 1, there was scene before OP sequence where Keima was saying 'I need to save this game'. Right after that claim, teacher goes mad and there was very long close-up of the book she holds. That close-up ruins the fast-paced boke-tsukomi atmosphere coming from the most of gag scenes from manga. Fast paced gag from manga should also be fast paced in anime to give the same effect. Sadly, it didn't do that in most of the part.

Let's take another example. There was huge mismatching between the voice acting style of seiyuu and soundtrack. Keima's voice was clearly intended to emphasis the 'comedic, akeman' side of Keima's personality in manga. However, the soundtrack was enforcing the 'serious, holy' atmosphere throughout using tons of strings. That made some of the non-manga experienced viewers to be confused about what this series actually wants to do; serious romance or keima's comedy over games. This is also 'direction', way the sound and voice of casts were intended.

I agree with you about the definition of direction. In my opinion, the direction was good because I felt like almost every scene contributed to characterizing or influencing the heroine [although I can't remember Kanon's arc well enough to say...].

I didn't notice these things, which is probably why they didn't bother me, but I can see why people think that the adaptation is boring now. I personally thought that they created the distinction between Keima's comedic side and his "capturing" side using Keima's tone of voice, but I can see how anime seemed to have trouble transitioning between comedy and drama.

Thanks for the explanation. I think I understand the complaints against the adaptation a little better.

[Ryuutai]

@applejuice: I approve every single word you told, because I have had the same impressions while I was watching the anime.
As I told in an other thread, Kami nomi's manga is great because tells a smart story always keeping an ironic tone; the anime brutally failed in this. While you are watching the anime, you have the awful impression that it is taking itself too seriously.

[applejuice]

Originally Posted by Malandro

Yeah, you're right but even Shaft makes poor directions, like Dance in the Vampire Bund or Arakawa Under The Bridge x 2.

Manglobe could have done better, its true, but overall it wasn't the worst adaptation i've seen.

Nothing is worse than 'boring' direction though. This anime had plenty of spaces to use directions that we can see in Kyoto Animation and Gainax level of series, such as Kanon singing and Loose-spirit catching scene. Manglobe made them just plain boring for me. (Of course, it's an opinion.) Just imagine what would've happened if Yamakan animated the band scene of Kami Nomi instead of Manglobe. That is a significance of direction.

Well, Shaft is a bit different case since their mindset and strategy is completely different. Basically, Shaft use exact same style of directions in every single series they produce. That's why Shaft is often called 'hit-or-miss' studio, since some animes might fit with their presentations but some don't. (like Ef and Dance in the Vampire Bund. It's just an opinion) They know that fact well, but that direction style now became more of 'tradition' and 'brand', so they can still make profit without using different directions other than what they are used to. If you want more detail, I have blogpost on investigating basic mind-set that studio Shaft and its staff has.

[NecocYaotl]

This will be my last post here

And for those who keep posting about yaoi and yuri over and over again, I hate you guys.
Bye

[Seihai]

Originally Posted by NecocYaotl

This will be my last post here

And for those who keep posting about yaoi and yuri over and over again, I hate you guys.
Bye

Thanks a lot for that image. Kusucchi looks more moe in anime form, and Elsie is the same as always. Just my beer. Cheers. And I know your feeling, sad to see you go. Don't let it get to you though.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by NecocYaotl

This will be my last post here

And for those who keep posting about yaoi and yuri over and over again, I hate you guys.
Bye

What is with the hate? There isn't anything wrong with talking about specific events like that.

But I guess where your conservative stands comes from - you are welcome back anytime if you feel like it.

[Shadow5YA]

My problem with the anime is simple: it was too serious. Even if it had some of the same gags as in the anime, Kanon and Shiori's story turned serious with the second or third episode and made it somewhat boring. If the anime wants to be different and make TWGOK a serious romance, then go all the way and remove some of the 4th wall breaking comedy, even if it deviates from the manga. If the anime wants to be comedic, then each arc could have been a lot shorter, especially Kanon and Shiori's story. There's enough content for them to keep up a faster pace like the manga and still have enough for another season after that.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

My problem with the anime is simple: it was too serious. Even if it had some of the same gags as in the anime, Kanon and Shiori's story turned serious with the second or third episode and made it somewhat boring. If the anime wants to be different and make TWGOK a serious romance, then go all the way and remove some of the 4th wall breaking comedy, even if it deviates from the manga. If the anime wants to be comedic, then each arc could have been a lot shorter, especially Kanon and Shiori's story. There's enough content for them to keep up a faster pace like the manga and still have enough for another season after that.

If TWGOK is to be serious, they have to remove that stupid little girl known as Elsie. Her fascination with fire trucks draw too much attention (300 years old, and she has never seen anything so big, long, red and hard?).

[Seihai]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

What is with the hate? There isn't anything wrong with talking about specific events like that.

But I guess where your conservative stands comes from - you are welcome back anytime if you feel like it.

There's nothing wrong with it imo but it get's repetetive. And boring. But that's all I can say, there's not too much to talk about anyway.

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

If TWGOK is to be serious, they have to remove that stupid little girl known as Elsie. Her fascination with fire trucks draw too much attention (300 years old, and she has never seen anything so big, long, red and hard?).

You hurt her feelings. And mine. Nante koto da...

[morli]

Hey, it's just hit my head that weiss only possess girl with negative emotion, then it's possible the goddess can only possess girl who have love emotion right?
And you know? Almost all girl that possessed by runaway spirit have something she love (track and field, singing, shogi, keima, etc) make it's possible they are possessed by goddess. I suspect the author set it up like that purposely to give all of them a chance to have goddess.


Diana possess tenri in order to help her. Because tenri's love is big, Diana power come back rather quickly. Apollo possess kanon as runaway spirit, and we know kanon's negative feeling is bigger thus make the weiss stronger and apollo become weak. I suspect vulcan choose tsukiyo because she is beautiful, then vulcan become weaker because tsukiyo's negative feeling.

Why vulcan choose tsukiyo? The fact that apollo and vulcan remember about keima make it a proof that the goddess has conciousness when they possess someone, just like diana when she possess tenri consciously. My assumption is the goddess choose her own vessel, but become weaker due to vessel's negative feeling (the exception is diana). With this theory, it's possible the goddess choose the vessel she like (the fact that apollo possess kanon who good at singing, and vulcan who possess tsukiyo because she is beautiful, make it weird if it's just a coincidence)

Just like keima said, "proof before theory". I create my theory based on fact that I found...

Spoiler for My research on girl's love...:

1. Ayumi --> track and field
2. Mio --> her father
3. Kanon --> singing
4. Shiori --> book
5. Kusunoki --> cute thing, her sister
6. Hakua --> Keima
7. Chihiro --> her band
8. Jun --> pro wrestling
9. Tsukiyo --> beautiful thing
10. Minami --> swimming
11. Tenri --> magic trick, keima
12. Reiko --> her granddaughter
13. Sumire --> ramen
14. Nanaka --> shogi
15. Yui --> music
16. Hinoki --> her sister

[Malandro]

my guess for season 2...

Ep 01/02 - Kusunoki arc
Ep 03/04 - Hakua arc
Ep 05/06/07 - "Tea for three" chapter and Chihiro arc
Ep 08 - Ch. 33 / Ch. 34 (fillers about Keima relationship with Elsie and your mom)
Ep 09/10/11 - Jun arc
Ep 12 - Ch. 42 / Ch. 35 (fillers about Elsie and Keima, respectively)

If i'm right this will be better than first season (at least in the pace)

[Xacual]

Originally Posted by Malandro

my guess for season 2...

Ep 01/02 - Kusunoki arc
Ep 03/04 - Hakua arc
Ep 05/06/07 - "Tea for three" chapter and Chihiro arc
Ep 08 - Ch. 33 / Ch. 34 (fillers about Keima relationship with Elsie and your mom)
Ep 09/10/11 - Jun arc
Ep 12 - Ch. 42 / Ch. 35 (fillers about Elsie and Keima, respectively)

If i'm right this will be better than first season (at least in the pace)

I'm expecting them to end it with Hakua instead of putting her in the same place as in the manga. It would probably be a better place to end though, as long as they animate the chapter with the tv program about "The Capturing God" I'll be happy.

[kniteowl]

Did anyone else notice that Tsukiyo was skipped from the anime series this season? Kami Nomi Preview Trailer

At the very least they didn't show her in the opening/ending of season 2.

Which could only mean

1: She's a hidden route/arc in season 2

2: they didn't have enough time available to complete her arc is the time slots available so she'll be bonus material in the dvd/blu-ray assuming they do not continue onto a 3rd season

3: They'll make an announcement of a 3rd season at the end of the second season and Tsukiyo will start off the 3rd season

4: Assuming there will be no more Kami nomi anime, they skipped her entirely.

Hopefully it's NOT 4.

What are your thoughts?

[Shadow5YA]

Anyone have a list of the girls Keima captured in chronological order?

Anyway, I think Tenri's arc is probably going to be one long arc. There's Tenri's move in next door and the start of Keima's capture, then a flashback arc the middle, then twarting Nora in present time.

Tenri will almost certainly appear if there is a third season, but it would be unwise to start off a season with a prolonged subplot, so there needs to be another girl before Tenri that Keima could quickly capture.