Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 09 Discussion / Poll

[Meophist]

I think Zambar Form can be used quite effectively against Signum…

[FlareKnight]

Ok found the episode. Seems that they both got a warning about using the full-drive mode (Excellion and Zambar form). But Nanoha got an additional warning about not using it at all until it got reinforced.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Meophist

I think Zambar Form can be used quite effectively against Signum…

That really depend of the point of view.
Fate was only able to stand against signum because of her speed. Considering the size and the energy required for the Zamber Form, Fate's speed might decreased too much, which will give too much opening to Signum.
Also, Fate wasn't really in a good shape either.

Signum isn't slow at all, and can break quite easely Fate weak defense. Signum even mentionned that if Fate decrease even more her defense abilities, she would be completely wiped with a single blow.

[krisslanza]

Originally Posted by Meophist

I think Zambar Form can be used quite effectively against Signum…

No it wouldn't. Signum can slaughter Fate because her barrier jacket is very weak defense-wise.

Using Zamber form would've slowed her down enough that Signum could easily cut her to ribbons. Fate was only able to 'beat' Signum in speed, but still take a number of hits.

Now if Signum was binded, that's a different story.

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by Meophist

I think Zambar Form can be used quite effectively against Signum…

I think you should watch the battles between Fate and Signum in S2, and then ep 12, to see how slow Fate was moving with Zamber Form.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

That really depend of the point of view.
Fate was only able to stand against signum because of her speed. Considering the size and the energy required for the Zamber Form, Fate's speed might decreased too much, which will give too much opening to Signum.
Also, Fate wasn't really in a good shape either.

Signum isn't slow at all, and can break quite easely Fate weak defense. Signum even mentionned that if Fate decrease even more her defense abilities, she would be completely wiped with a single blow.

I couldn't have put it in better words...

[Meophist]

Zambar Form is both very powerful and has a large range. If Fate plays it safe, it's possible to be able keep distance from Signum while not creating an opening.

It would mean that Fate will have to adopt an entirely new fighting style, however. In other words, going for power and range over speed.

[Klashikari]

well... that would be a worse scenario, because Signum was planning to use Storm Falcon, while Fate was still outmatching her with speed.

thus, if Fate plays with a longer range, and a slower attack... she is pretty toasted...

[Meophist]

Fate will need to keep Signum at the very tip of Zambar's range. It will be enough to discourage Signum from using her ranged attacks, and also enough to react if Signum tries to get into her own sword range. It'll be difficult, but very doable.

[FlareKnight]

True that if Fate dropped the speed down Signum wouldn't have had much a problem with her storm falcon. Depending on how far Fate was falling back even Snake form might've caused some trouble. I think Fate chose the best route for her, trying to overwhelm Signum with speed as opposed to slow power.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Meophist

…Then why didn't Fate ever use Zambar Form against Signum?

Because Amy did tell Fate that it was risky, she just emphasized Nanoha because Raising Heart's framework was not yet reinforced.

I quote: "It's risky, so don't use the Full Drive unless you have to, especially you, Nanoha-chan."

Originally Posted by Klashikari

well... that would be a worse scenario, because Signum was planning to use Storm Falcon, while Fate was still outmatching her with speed.

thus, if Fate plays with a longer range, and a slower attack... she is pretty toasted...

Wether the Zanber Form is a slower attack is questionable, since the blade is made out of energy, eliminating weight. The only resistance would come from air pressure.

[An Hero in Disguise]

Was it ever mentioned clearly that Sonic Form and Bardiche Zamber are incompatible with each other? Anyway it could be a possible power-up Fate could develop at the time between A's and StrikerS. Thinking of speed reduction using Zamber Form, it could be arguable - in A's Fate used it only for high-powered attacks not fighting with the blade itself; if you consider Zamber's energy blade similar to a lightsaber it should have close to zero weight thus making rapid swings quite easy. Again, it's never described in details so we can only speculate on that matter.

[Meophist]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

True that if Fate dropped the speed down Signum wouldn't have had much a problem with her storm falcon. Depending on how far Fate was falling back even Snake form might've caused some trouble. I think Fate chose the best route for her, trying to overwhelm Signum with speed as opposed to slow power.

I think Zambar Form would've been a better risk, though at the same time, it would probably been a greater risk.

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

Was it ever mentioned clearly that Sonic Form and Bardiche Zamber are incompatible with each other? Anyway it could be a possible power-up Fate could develop at the time between A's and StrikerS. Thinking of speed reduction using Zamber Form, it could be arguable - in A's Fate used it only for high-powered attacks not fighting with the blade itself; if you consider Zamber's energy blade similar to a lightsaber it should have close to zero weight thus making rapid swings quite easy. Again, it's never described in details so we can only speculate on that matter.

And now in StrikerS, we saw how Fate changed her Barrier Jacket, it now provides much more protection, compared to the original ones.

Barrier Jacket - Impulse Form is so cool
But how Bardiche activated the BJ, there must be more forms stored...can't wait to see them :3 (and Nanoha's too).

[Meophist]

Why did I ever start this argument in the first place?

[krisslanza]

I'd hope for more forms, otherwise why is it called 'Impulse Form' and Nanoha's is 'Aggressive Mode'? XD
If they only had one form, they wouldn't even name them (Like all the rookies)

Hm. Why does Bardiche call it 'Form' and RH call it 'Mode'? <_<

[An Hero in Disguise]

Originally Posted by Meophist

Why did I ever start this argument in the first place?

I think you want to see Fate using Zamber Form in StrikerS. We all do

Originally Posted by krisslanza

Hm. Why does Bardiche call it 'Form' and RH call it 'Mode'? <_<

Well, it could be just names, or it could have some meaning, like Fate's BJ actually changes with different "Forms" while Nanoha's basically stays the same with RH switching through different "Modes".

[Estavali]

I'm sure the A's manga is canon so I'll just post these 2 pics first:



Note that Fate is using Bardiche Zamber while in her Sonic form.

Until canon information proves me otherwise, I would say that Fate can use Zamber and Sonic form together. Maybe not during the YnS incident but she definitely could during the 5 on 5 demolition practise..

[Meophist]

Originally Posted by krisslanza

Hm. Why does Bardiche call it 'Form' and RH call it 'Mode'? <_<

The same reason why Nanoha says "Shoot" while Fate says "Fire"?

[FlareKnight]

Yeah for some reason we got into instability in the devices. Before you know it we were talking about Zambar form versus Signum, I really don't know how things got to that point.

Guess its just personal preference between form and mode.

[Meophist]

Originally Posted by Estavali

Note that Fate is using Bardiche Zamber while in her Sonic form.

Until canon information proves me otherwise, I would say that Fate can use Zamber and Sonic form together. Maybe not during the YnS incident but she definitely could during the 5 on 5 demolition practise..

There really wasn't a reason for Fate to use the two together anyways. It's not like evasion was a high priority against the defense program.

…but I want to see Blast Calamity animated now.