Spice and Wolf II - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[BashZeStampeedo]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I believe I remember the author even saying he wished he could go back and rewrite his novel with Chloe in it -- he agreed it add a lot of texture to the character's connection with Lawrence. The manga has been exceptional... I'm just sad it comes out so slowly.

It's interesting to hear that. I agree with you on the manga, it's been exceptional so far (I just started to read it today).

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by pacific

Pretty much yes, in everything you said.

Btw, i have only followed the anime so i am not really familiar with the novels and stuff, but the anime adaption follows closely (as much as it can, at least) the novels, or has it taken any different route?
From what i know, the novels are still on-going, right?

It's skipped a volume (the fourth), which casts a slightly different light on Lawrence's hesitations with their relationship.

[yukiren]

i just can't understand how lawrence still hasn't slept with horo yet
it's pretty obvious that they're a couple now

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by yukiren

i just can't understand how lawrence still hasn't slept with horo yet
it's pretty obvious that they're a couple now

In that culture, it implies a level of commitment both are afraid to move to ... specifically because of the lifespan differences and their differing goals in life. Right now they're on a mission. Once that is complete, then they will see how things stand.

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised as well but I think you're seeing a bit of the author wanting to make such a commitment the climax of the series.

[BashZeStampeedo]

Originally Posted by Vexx

In that culture, it implies a level of commitment both are afraid to move to ... specifically because of the lifespan differences and their differing goals in life. Right now they're on a mission. Once that is complete, then they will see how things stand.

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised as well but I think you're seeing a bit of the author wanting to make such a commitment the climax of the series.

I also think it's also worth stressing that they are clearly both afraid of losing what they already have together. Lawrence has already more or less demonstrated that his goals in life are taking a back-seat to his journey with Horo. Even Horo has implied that she doesn't want their journey to end anytime soon, and seems much less focused on Yoitsu of late.

I believe they have mutually and deliberately slowed down their journey to Yoitsu, under various pretexts (though clearly as an excuse to spend more time together).Over time their "mission" seems to be getting less and less important, even if it's still their primary focus. It also seems like the only way Lawrence feels he can contribute to their relationship, which may be why he's trying so hard.

[FlareKnight]

Well anyways the end of the episode was a surprise. I didn't think Abe was going to say something like that. Don't think she'd say something like that without any reason. Definitely worries me when you consider her link to the church. If it's connected then it's been a while since Horo has had a church based threat. Gah I just want a bit of the next episode for some answers .

Anyways the situation with Lawrence and Horo was pretty interesting in itself. Not that hard to guess what Horo is afraid of. Can't blame Horo for that fear. The lifespan differences and not to mention having someone in her life now that she cares that much about. The fear of losing that person and losing the happiness she now has. Besides traveling back home has kicked up memories of loss and that may be tying into it.

Anyways loved the image of Lawrence with all the clothes hanging off him and then kicking over to Horo's position . Then she has to flip over into that goofy position . Never an end to the interesting times when traveling with Horo.

['Pryde]

what was horo and lawrence talking about with the finger counting scene

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by 'Pryde

what was horo and lawrence talking about with the finger counting scene

Well unless I've completely misjudged the conversation I believe they were playing around with the number of people Horo has been romantically involved with. After all it followed their conversation about the colour of their respective souls. With Lawrence's being dyed in Horo's colour .

So thinking back to the end I wonder if Abe is just trying to blackmail Lawrence regarding Horo. Or is she actually trying to acquire Horo to sell her to the church? Or is the whole thing a bluff?

[Windows X]

I think it's number of people she's been involved with and I'm sure Abe just make a bluff. Why? Because next episode is named Lonely smile while Horo making sore face

[HandofFate]

I wouldn't be surprised if the cliff-hanger here is a 'fake-out' Where the viewers are made to go "oh snap! **** is going to go down!"

and get excited for the next episode, and its just something Lawrence misheard or its not going to hit the level of climax we were expecting. (maybe I been watching too many jdramas)

anyway, I'm surprised at how successful Lawrence seems to be as a merchant. His 'savings' isn't really revealed and he lost almost all his worth from the armor incident in season 1.

And an earlier episode, Horo mentioned he made enough money already to open his shop. I was under the impression Lawrence while a decent merchant himself is still in the apprentice/learning stage. Didn't he say he saved like 2 years to buy the clothes that Horo ended up claiming in episode 1 from under his wagon. And he has enough money for his own store already?

[wandering-dreamer]

Lol poor Horo, she's going to have to save herself from being sold twice in 13 episodes, that's gotta be some kind of record.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

I wouldn't be surprised if the cliff-hanger here is a 'fake-out' Where the viewers are made to go "oh snap! **** is going to go down!"

and get excited for the next episode, and its just something Lawrence misheard or its not going to hit the level of climax we were expecting. (maybe I been watching too many jdramas)

anyway, I'm surprised at how successful Lawrence seems to be as a merchant. His 'savings' isn't really revealed and he lost almost all his worth from the armor incident in season 1.

And an earlier episode, Horo mentioned he made enough money already to open his shop. I was under the impression Lawrence while a decent merchant himself is still in the apprentice/learning stage. Didn't he say he saved like 2 years to buy the clothes that Horo ended up claiming in episode 1 from under his wagon. And he has enough money for his own store already?

Yeah I wonder if they are trying to fool us or not. Though every arc does have a crisis so it very well could not be a bluff. Lawrence said himself that things were going well which is usually a clear indication that something terrible is coming .

Well we do have to take into account the amount of money Lawrence made in the last arc. He pretty much put everything he could into getting pyrite to sell it and make the market crash. Since he sold a lot at the high point you'd assume he made quite a substantial profit out of it. Might be wrong but I don't think he would have enough to open a shop if it wasn't for the amount he made in that situation.

Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer

Lol poor Horo, she's going to have to save herself from being sold twice in 13 episodes, that's gotta be some kind of record.

And don't forget behind held hostage in the first season. I guess you can say that her life has been rather eventful since she met Lawrence .

[BashZeStampeedo]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Well unless I've completely misjudged the conversation I believe they were playing around with the number of people Horo has been romantically involved with. After all it followed their conversation about the colour of their respective souls. With Lawrence's being dyed in Horo's colour .

Yeah, that seemed to be the point. Horo is still content to play with Lawrence, even though she seems to know how he feels. I honestly couldn't believe she'd pull that kind of stunt, it felt a bit low. I really liked it that he finally called her bluff when she got too persistent. It was nice to see it backfire on her, and even nicer that he gracefully bowed out to let her save face. I wonder if she noticed that, or if her "training" of Lawrence has been too effective

The most touching scene in this episode for me was probably something I (yet again) misinterpreted. In the narrow alleyways it felt like Lawrence had opened up his heart to her, by "giving her advice" that seemed really more like a confession than advice (in his own simple yet convoluted manner). He seemed really crushed that when she seemed to miss the point. I doubt it was because he was describing how he wanted her to behave, like she said.

I also wasn't particularly sure what to read from the scene when he was tucking Horo in. She said "if you come to realize what it is [that's scaring me], I might be a bit troubled.". His expression after that wasn't his usual "what's she talking about" face. I think Lawrence is completely at a loss for how to proceed.

Finally, before I write a novel here, I'm interested in what Horo meant by "sweet and salty water". I've never heard that expression before. Also, Lawrence's last sentence confused me, in that scene where he's carrying all the books for Horo from Rigolo's place:
L: "It must be really easy to wave your hands like that when you're not holding anything".
H: "You should watch your mouth doesn't get your jilted one day."
H: "Males just get overexcited when flattered".
L: "Even though I'm in no position to, I just get frustrated."
Based on Horo's laugh, I can't quite make out what he really said, since his admission that he wants some praise is hardly that funny...

[yukiren]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

The art/visuals were a bit off in a few spots too (Horo's was particularly noticeable).

...

very obvious when horo eating the whole pig. the art were just off

[Intranetusa]

Originally Posted by ThoHell

I just can't say this enough: Horo is awesome and Lawrence is an idiot. Be a man already Lawrence! Just look at Horo and her behavior, what kind of man is Lawrence? Take the dang relationship to the next lvl already!

He truly loves her, and he's not some sex crazed gigolo.

[Intranetusa]

Originally Posted by Mr. Anime

I am excited to see in which way lawrence is goint to turn her down and what ll happen next week and now i am curious about the number of guys/wolves whatsoever that she had a relationship with. At first i thought her fingers did count them but when lawrence asked her how many what could the expression on her face mean? she obviously wanted to tease lawrence with the number so it might be a lie but it could have been the truth. If its revealed in the novel some1 plz tell me about it^^

lol... XD

An experienced older woman + an experienced younger man...

[Windows X]

Originally Posted by BashZeStampeedo

Yeah, that seemed to be the point. Horo is still content to play with Lawrence, even though she seems to know how he feels. I honestly couldn't believe she'd pull that kind of stunt, it felt a bit low. I really liked it that he finally called her bluff when she got too persistent. It was nice to see it backfire on her, and even nicer that he gracefully bowed out to let her save face. I wonder if she noticed that, or if her "training" of Lawrence has been too effective

The most touching scene in this episode for me was probably something I (yet again) misinterpreted. In the narrow alleyways it felt like Lawrence had opened up his heart to her, by "giving her advice" that seemed really more like a confession than advice (in his own simple yet convoluted manner). He seemed really crushed that when she seemed to miss the point. I doubt it was because he was describing how he wanted her to behave, like she said.

I also wasn't particularly sure what to read from the scene when he was tucking Horo in. She said "if you come to realize what it is [that's scaring me], I might be a bit troubled.". His expression after that wasn't his usual "what's she talking about" face. I think Lawrence is completely at a loss for how to proceed.

Finally, before I write a novel here, I'm interested in what Horo meant by "sweet and salty water". I've never heard that expression before. Also, Lawrence's last sentence confused me, in that scene where he's carrying all the books for Horo from Rigolo's place:
L: "It must be really easy to wave your hands like that when you're not holding anything".
H: "You should watch your mouth doesn't get your jilted one day."
H: "Males just get overexcited when flattered".
L: "Even though I'm in no position to, I just get frustrated."
Based on Horo's laugh, I can't quite make out what he really said, since his admission that he wants some praise is hardly that funny...

If you don't mind my opinions, maybe I can help you figuring it out about sweet and salty water. Starting last episode, Lawrence kept calling Horo princess from time to time as she chanted magic upon him. He treated Horo well for whole day of this episode and this is what Horo calls "sweet water". While Horo appreciating Lawrence's kindness by stating nice evening, Lawrence may misintepreted Horo's words as an act to tease him like he usually think in novel. So to keep his cool act and not to get overexcited when being flattered, he casts out his defense card that he might go bad in night like this to not let Horo's flattiness get him over. In Horo's perspective, it appears to her that he's throwing out his bad guy act to keep balance of this romatic hood. That's what she meant for "salty water".

To sum it short, it's all about Lawrence being sweet to Horo to the extent that she expressed her gratitude to him then he played bad guy act to keep her from being too sweet. Yet Horo foundout about his act. The salt she foundout transformed into extremely sweet water that she feel overwhelmed.

About your last curiousity, Lawrence said in order to counteract her teasing by stating himself not being a man in place where he fights with Horo but yet he feel frustrated. Horo got surprised that in his trump card to even counteract her in his dimmishing position. She clapped for his effort to fight herer back in smart way (for not being stubborn ones). How? He didn't fight back to get to the top over his rivals. Usually, stubborn guy will try to dig up one's mistake to counteract. Yet he admitted in his position to not challenging Horo that he's more matured than her or something and express his frustration knowing his position. That's calm and very smart when you want to aruge with wise people

[BashZeStampeedo]

Originally Posted by Windows X

If you don't mind my opinions, maybe I can help you figuring it out about sweet and salty water. Starting last episode, Lawrence kept calling Horo princess from time to time as she chanted magic upon him. He treated Horo well for whole day of this episode and this is what Horo calls "sweet water". While Horo appreciating Lawrence's kindness by stating nice evening, Lawrence may misintepreted Horo's words as an act to tease him like he usually think in novel. So to keep his cool act and not to get overexcited when being flattered, he casts out his defense card that he might go bad in night like this to not let Horo's flattiness get him over. In Horo's perspective, it appears to her that he's throwing out his bad guy act to keep balance of this romatic hood. That's what she meant for "salty water".

To sum it short, it's all about Lawrence being sweet to Horo to the extent that she expressed her gratitude to him then he played bad guy act to keep her from being too sweet. Yet Horo foundout about his act. The salt she foundout transformed into extremely sweet water that she feel overwhelmed.

About your last curiousity, Lawrence said in order to counteract her teasing by stating himself not being a man in place where he fights with Horo but yet he feel frustrated. Horo got surprised that in his trump card to even counteract her in his dimmishing position. She clapped for his effort to fight herer back in smart way (for not being stubborn ones). How? He didn't fight back to get to the top over his rivals. Usually, stubborn guy will try to dig up one's mistake to counteract. Yet he admitted in his position to not challenging Horo that he's more matured than her or something and express his frustration knowing his position. That's calm and very smart when you want to aruge with wise people

Thanks for the insights, don't worry about stating your opinions (I clearly don't)

Based on your feedback and my own opinions, their "sweet and salty water" dialog seems like he's either:
- warning her that he could get used to treating her like that
- warning her that that he might not be able to resist making a move on her
- letting her know that he's worried his skills are dulling while he's with her
Based on that, you are probably right that she would think he's trying to tell her that she's been "too nice to him". Wish I could read the novels to figure out

I take it you meant that Lawrence knew he wasn't going to get any thanks from Horo, so rather than fighting he just admits it outright? Something like "even though I'm in no position to ask for it, I still get frustrated when I don't get any thanks".

[MeoTwister5]

At the first part of this episode, Horo pretty much described every human male that has ever existed that ever tried their hands at romance. That was absolute win.

The middle of the episode tells me that both are inching closer to the truth and location of Horo's homeland, yet the subtle awkwardness of their relationship as capitalized by the hesitation of taking Horo's hand proves there is still much ground to be covered. Even then, Lawrence's words of comfort to Horo's fears was a sure sign of wise manliness.

As for the end, it's proof that not only are people straight for Horo, people are gay for Horo as well.

[BashZeStampeedo]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

At the first part of this episode, Horo pretty much described every human male that has ever existed that ever tried their hands at romance. That was absolute win.

Win yes, but I think Lawrence wasn't intending his words as she interpreted them. He seemed embarrassed and upset that she read them that way. I get the vibe that his real intent is misinterpreted by her because he's not eloquent enough to say it properly.. not because her interpretation was correct. I also get the vibe that he's really angry at himself for being so inept.

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

The middle of the episode tells me that both are inching closer to the truth and location of Horo's homeland, yet the subtle awkwardness of their relationship as capitalized by the hesitation of taking Horo's hand proves there is still much ground to be covered. Even then, Lawrence's words of comfort to Horo's fears was a sure sign of wise manliness.

It seems to me that Lawrence is avoiding the sex for her sake, because he clearly wants to jump her bones. It does seem like he's struggling to decide on whether to just go for it, or whether he'll hurt her more in the long run by doing so. She seems scared about his abstinence, and I can guess it's because she doesn't know how else to take their relationship to the next level.