Will the anime industry ever have a "New Wave", or is it happening right now?

[Taufiq91]

From the late 1960's to early 80's, the "New Wave of Hollywood" began to emerge from the likes of Steven Spielberg, Francis Ford Coppola, Dennis Hopper, George Lucas, Peter Bogdanovich and more. Inspired by The French New Wave cinema of Truffaut & Godard, they rely on independent budgets and documentary-style filmaking techniques to create a new form of cinema that turned Hollywood into what we see today. It led to films like Easy Rider, The Last Picture Show and even the birth of blockbusters in the forms of Star Wars and Inception, and it's truly one of the greatest era of film history.

But will the Anime Industry have it's own "New Wave" scene? Or is it happening right now? It might be, and here's why

Spoiler for New Wave of Anime:

We are definitely in need of new animators in the industry. The pool for creativity is large in the industry, but the amount of people entering it is getting smaller and smaller and thus we need more people to enter the pool.

But, will these "new people" be creating a "New Wave of Anime"? Are they gonna make new animes that will be way different that what we see right now? Will they adapt mangas or light novels into something that resembles Bogdanovich in the 70's? We might never know.

But when you look at it, we might be having a New Wave of Anime right now.

For the past 6 to 8 years, we've been seeing Animes that are made in a way that is not usual to the viewers of the past decade or two. Studios like Brain's Base, White fox, SHAFT and "maybe KyoAni" are making animes using simple IKEA-esque animation design along with techniques from live action that might be considered impossible a decade ago (shaky cam, jump cuts, reflection shots, documentary view, etc.) and we seem to be seeing a rise in character and dialogue driven animes, especially SHAFT's works like Bakemonogatari and certain slice of life animes like Soredemo Machi wa Mawatteiru and Clannad to a certain extent.

People like Akiyuki Shinbo, Tatsuya Ishihara, Makoto Shinkai, Takeshi Koike, Mamoru Hosoda, Takahiro Omori, Shin Oonuma and co. are making something that is closer to "New Wave". Especially Makoto Shinkai-sensei who made voices from the Distant Star, which reminds me of the early works of Spielberg and Coppola.

And of course, Gainax. Especially Eva & FLCL. Both started the New Wave anime trend the same way Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? started the New Wave Hollywood trend, paving way for more in terms of animation, cinematography and design.

But of course, it's my opinion and its hard to justify a "New Wave of Anime" when there's not much a self-conscious and counterculture movement going on in Japan. And of course, the term "New Hollywood" or "New Wave Hollywood" were coined and justified by film critics like Pauline Kael and Roger Ebert, and for a similar movement to happen in the anime industry would need recognition by both anime journalists and culture journalists, but i doubt it'd happen since anime journalism is not taken seriously by the mainstream media and culture journalists are too busy looking at Sengoku period art to even care about animes by SHAFT and Brain's Base.

But again i know some fellow AnimeSukiers are fans of New Hollywood just like me, and i hope you guys know a thing or two.

So, can a "New Wave of Anime happen", or is it happening right now?

[Last Sinner]

Hmmm, I'm surprised by some of the comments the OP made because some of the people you claim to be ignored by anime journalists I've found are the ones that are the ones that are praised to no end by them. (ANN loves Shinbo to pieces) And frankly, I think the present is the complete anti of the essence of 'New Wave'.

I think there's a need to address the history of anime somewhat before jumping to conclusions. Because there have been booms in anime at several points in history - which usually tied in with having finance or something defining being released. And they are worth noting.

I'm not going to quote every show from an era, decade or year. I'm going to quote the ones I feel are most relevant to making my argument/opinion. The crux of it being:


- A 'new wave' is defined by a major shift in how anime is made
- 'New waves' tend to be dictated by financial factors or an unexpected success
- Creativity is no longer encouraged in modern anime and success is now very formulaic
- Certain series/people had major effects on how anime is now made
- The events of the last decade could perhaps be as much a regression versus an evolution
- Anime is a reflection of Japan as a society and its attitudes somewhat. Japan doesn't have a general desire to change or be ambitious and hasn't for a very long time.


(Note that I'm not going to quote every single defining show from each decade, so if I don't mention your personal favourite(s) at some point, don't take it personally.)

(Apologies for the length, but this is the kind of thing I've wanted to talk about for ages)


Father of anime, Osamu Tezuka, had his hand in just about anything made in the 1960s. It's monochrome and corny, but there's something infectuous and spirited about it. Tezuka had soul and passion. The guy loved his craft and truly wanted to be the person that could create something that would evolve over time as attitudes and technology changed and money wasn't much of an issue.

The next step in the anime evolution could be said to take place at the start of the 1980s and somewhat late 70s, when the 'bubble economy' began to take shape. Anime studios suddenly had money - this is a big issue. When studiios have more money, they're willing to take more risks because they can relatively afford to suffer the odd financial loss via experimentation. The birth of the shoujo genre (and also honored as the birth of yuri) occurred effectively in 1979 when Ikeda Ryoko's Rose of Versailles was animated. It was the first true example of a shoujo-style show being successful and proved that it was a financially viable genre. Also in 1979, anime's most celebrated son, Hayao Miyazaki, made his directing debut with Future Boy Conan. It was simple, well animated fun that already featured the trademarks of his future works - young protagonists, war-affected worlds, visuals that had a lot of love despite being hand-drawn. Also in 1979, the Gundam franchise was born with the airing of Mobile Suit Gundam - still regarded as the best of the franchise in Japan and deservedly so, as Tomino had never intended Gundam to become a persistent franchise and probably gave his most sincere effort to the original. And thus mecha would begin to take hold.

As the 80s rolled on, so did the birth of more franchises and decade-defining series. Lupin the Third became 'in' after Miyazaki directed Castle of Count Cagliostro in 1983, but with his own style and a much 'nicer' Lupin - some hardcore Lupin fans certainly consider it to be a renegade film but a necessity in forging its longevity up to its recent finale in The Last Job. Sherlock Hound/Detective Holmes finally emerged in 1984 after a 3-year battle with the Arthur Conan Doyle estate resulted in them being unable to call the lead character 'Sherlock Holmes' in full. Collaboration with TV networks in Italy caused this one to be promoted in Europe and episode direction from Miyazaki in some of the early episodes caused this to be one that ended up on video rental shelves in the West because it was good fun and astonishingly well animated for its time. You could show Sherlock Hound now and it would blow most modern series out of the water in quality control and production values. Golion/Voltron was another series that could be found on the shelf in the 80s, full of Toeiness in good and bad ways, but with its very 80s themes from the legendary Ichiro 'Aniki' Mizukim, mullets, cheesy villians and corny yet hilarious transformation scenes, it became a hallmark of something that was truly Japanese, 80s and had styles that would be replicated in the future. City Hunter is the type of show that could only have been made in the 80s. Brash, risque, hands-on, featuring the now-trademark slick and lusty male lead/feisty and smart female lead partner combo, lasting for 4 series and nearly 200 episodes, it was the predecessor to the glut of crime shows now seen on mainstream TV featuring the brash male/classy female combo. Kimagure Orange Road makes a good argument for being the series that could some up the 80s best in terms of culture and anime. Helmet-head and mullet haircuts galore, Cross Game-like faces and eyes in abundance, corny beat + keyboard 80s music themes, but perhaps most importantly, it was a series that was able to properly portray high-school life + romance effectively as well as several now commonplace character types in Kyosuke (the not-so decisive yet lovable goofball male), Madoka (spunky, soulful and decisive female) and Hikaru (cutesy, high-pitched and somewhat irritating). But it would be very foolish to dicuss the 80s without mentioning the woman who would end up being the queen of long-running titles and Japan's richest woman - Rumiko Takahashi. Maison Ikkoku - the other major romance title of the decade, Urusei Yatsura - somewhat considered as the trigger for harem animes to become more prevalent, then into the 90s with Ranma 1/2 and beyond with Inuyasha, Rumiko Takahashi brought a style and philosophy that would shake manga to the core as well as anime. She is the ultimate businesswoman, many would say. She is the master of creating a LONG title that can stretch on to near-inifinity yet keep its fanbase throughout. Her philosophy would soon be adapted on a wide scale as the 'bubble economy' burst, leading into the recession laden 90s, causing the death of bountiful budgets and more calcuated risks with series being made.

The 90s started with a lull. Money was too tight to mention and when you look at what was being made in the early 90s, it showed. Gradually titles would rack up and bring some life to it. Shoujo would see its next stepping stones via Marmalade Boy and Brother, Dear Brother then get a major jolt when Revolutionary Girl Utena added some flexibility to the genre. Tomino's attempts to kill Gundam by making increasingly more ridiculous series only served to keep it alive and eventually make him flee the franchise in permanent guilt while mecha would become a prevalent force for the decade. Rurouni Kenishin would show the eternal adoration for a samurai series, but mistakes made in its conversion in some parts would be a valuable lesson for those doing conversions in the future. Rumiko Takahashi continued to rake in the cash. Miyazaki had teamed with Studio Ghibli in the mid 80s, making movies before (Nausicaa) and after the union with Ghibli (Laputa, Totoro). But financial success had not come yet. In a near-desperate attempt to save Ghibli, Kiki's Delivery Service was born. In hindsight, this would not end up being the most popular Ghibli title. But it was the first one to be a financial hit. Ghibli and Miyazaki finally had money. In the years to come, Porco Rosso (the movie that best sums up Miyazaki as a person), Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away would take Miyazaki to the heights of success that would make him one of Japan's most valued icons. My Neighbour Totoro would end up being a hit that would persevere and end up being a cultural icon and loved toy. But while this was happening, Miyazaki's arch-nemesis would come into the fray and present the anti to his kiddish fantasy world - Mamoru Oshii. Ghost in the Shell the movie, adapted from the manga legend Masamure Shirow, was everything Miyazaki wasn't. It had adults galore, the feminista icon in 'The Major' Motoko Kusanagi, a modern world where humanity and technology had fused, plus it struck a chord with Western viewers. A clash of ideals and opinions had begun. Miyazaki - the kird-world loving, adult hating, modern hating, 'glory days' mentality that lived for his work and almost never spent time with his own family. Versus Oshii - the rebel, the modern man, the person who saw the flaws within Japan and didn't want to run and hide from them but advocate for change instead. The Miyazaki-Oshii rivalry would become a bitter one and would rage on into the 00s.

But in hindsight, when it comes to series anime, there are two particular years in 90s anime that stand out - and with good reason. 1995 somehow saw the birth of some much-needed heroes to save the day. Slayers would become a trademark of the 90s with the magic that is Lina Inverse. Fushigi Yuugi would be a summation of all that was good and bad with the 90s. But of course, October 1995 would be the time that many considered to be the moment where everything changed - where anime would be defined as before this moment and what came after. Neon Genesis Evangelion came into the world via the troubled mind of Hideaki Anno. Reeling from his terminally ill girlfriend dumping him on her deathbed, he then poured himself into the series that reflected the best and worst of anime. Spineless male leads would forever be 'in' thanks to one Shinji Ikari. The quiet, white/purple haired girl full of mystery and petiteness that was Rei Ayanami would see itself reincarnated over and over and over in the years to come...perhaps most notably as Ruri (Nadesico), Yuki Nagato (Haruhi) and Kanade (Angel Beats). And let's not forget the start of the tsundere obssession that began with Asuka Soryu Langley. A series loaded with angst, self-destruction and the simple concept of 'affiliation' - the need for an individual to be accepted, communicate and be liked by other people. Despite Anno's inability to handle a budget and its rushed ending, it became the hit that would change everything. It was the first example where a series that clearly had production issues, a story that fell apart in the run to the end and an ending that frustrated fans to no end, could still be a colossal success as long as the characters were the type that fans couldn't get enough of. And thus, anime would gradually begin its shift from story-oriented anime to character-oriented anime, which has been well chronicled by long-time art critic and thinker Hitomi Azuma. Anime's next boom and evolution had begun. But its grip on anime wouldn't take a strangehold on anime just yet. The 90s weren't finished. One year in particular threw a spanner in the works.

1998 - the year that proved that anime could be popular in the West. As well as have Western-style characters/environments yet still be a success. For five years, Shinichiro Watanabe had been creating a story, with a lot of time, effort and passion. Cowboy Bebop came into the world, loaded with bebop jazz, spunky characters that broke the mold and was action galore that didn't have the usual trademarks of anime at the time. Initially, Japan rejected it. But the West couldn't get enough of it. Anime was suddenly acceptable in the West and Bebop was given a lifeline back home. And it wasn't the only title that shared that fate. Trigun, another Shirow classic, also got canned in Japan, yet its spaghetti western style and rock music was an instant hit in the West and ended up being as an obligatory position for anime newcomers to start from along with Cowboy Bebop. Add the mind-bending Serial Experiments Lain, the 'Dream Weaver' Satoshi Kon making his first notable feature in Perfect Blue, the trademark magical girl show in Cardcaptor Sakura - 1998 was the year that proved there was more to anime and the decade than just Eva and Miyazaki. And that anime could have an influence on a global scale.

And so the 00s came. Initially, not much came of it. The first two years really didn't capitalise on the boom years of 95 and 98. It wasn't until 2002 that the next boom came. But it would have a telling effect. The birth of the digital age in anime was in effect. The limits of purely hand-drawn anime were now lifted. Azumanga Daioh's conversion into anime would trigger several major events. The rise of J.C. Staff as a major studio, the viability of 4-koma titles being converted into anime (Don't think of letting K-ON!'s success owe nothing to Azumanga Daioh!), as well as one of the first signs of 'moe' anime's potential to dominate a realm that had been mecha's playground in the 90s. It was also the year where notably more material was being made and more studios were popping up vying for success. As a result, more good series were being made. But what could already be seen in 2002 was the paradigm shift that Azuma had seen in motion. Series were now character-oriented. A story could be barely more than bare bones yet be a financial gem as long as the characters won the viewer's hearts. Also of great importance was the shift from the 39/52 length series that were indicative of the 80s and 90s. 26 episodes was now a more common length while the start of the one-season show 13 episodes length, which would come to dictate how things were done in the near future, was in motion.

Other studios to become more prominent during the boom would be Madhouse and Bones while Sunrise would continue to prosper, while Gainax hadn't seen much financial success post-Eva save for the insanely random yet touching coming-of-age gem that was FLCL. 2003 would be another prosperous year before a somewhat-lull period for the two years after. One notable success against the trend was Monster's adaptation from Naoki Urusawa's manga phenomenon. It was an unexpected success and proved that a title could still work even if the focus was not mainly on the characters and that not all titles need a moe cast to click with the viewers. Watanabe's second effort in Samurai Champloo once again struck a chord with the West, proving that being creative didn't mean having to ignore all that was Japanese. Satoshi Kon would gradually become a crticial delight for his defiant works and willing to living a life of passionate work despite financial hardship. Makoto Shinkai would put most animators to shame by showing that anyone could make a work of art by themselves on their home computer using merely Flash and love when Voices of a Distant Star. Oshii would see two series worth of Ghost in the Shell made and get some success to counter-punch Miyazaki's mentality, but not much.

In 2006, another mini-boom occurred. But a bit before that, an adaptation occurred that would solidify J.C. Staff as a powerhouse and lead to a permanent shift in the way they did business. Shakugan no Shana, featuring dumbed down production values and a purely character-oriented premise, turned Shana into a tsundere icon and a financial gold mine. Rie Kugimiya would end up typifying what otaku wanted from a seiyuu. The carefully tailored OP/ED themes to tie in with the lead female became a major factor in a series's success. The rules had changed. You could have a dog of a story and next to no quality control but if your main characters, particularly the females, ticked the right boxes and had a powerhouse seiyuu voicing it, you got the money. And thus the tsundere craze truly took hold in 2006. The more successful titles were having either a tsundere or the quiet, mysterious type, if not both in series like The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. Anno's characters were being reincarnated in droves to the point of saturation. They weren't just one type anymore. They were THE TYPES. They were the formula for sustained success. Of course, in the years to come, there would be titles that weren't like that which would have some form of success, but not on the scales that the moe series were generating, nor in the merchandise realm.

Another sign of the times was Shounen Jump's domination of the non-moe section of anime and manga. There was another formula in play. Young males determined to succeed no matter what. Females of certain types willing to help make that happen. Design the story so that it could run the lengths of Rumiko Takahashi titles, if not longer. Takahashi's legacy had left a mark on anime that couldn't be ignored. In the times of restricted budgets and a few titles dominating while the majority lagged behind, it was desirable for any success to be converted into one with near-infinite longevity. And while it certainly caused major short-term gain, it created a new problem...When the few big titles are finished, what next?! This is the dilemma facing the manga industry as the drawbacks of pushing formulaic titles to success were coming back to haunt them. So far, there is no sign of a solution...

Back in the anime realm, it seemed that the decade might end up being defined by Code Geass. Even if Tanaguchi Goro had been forced to make what was meant to be 25 episodes into 50 episodes once the first series had just begun, he managed to somehow pull it off even if some glaring flaws occurred along the way. Ambition had somehow prevailed. The risk had paid off. A balance between what sells and personal aspirations had been found. But as the final year of the 00s came, two series would have an effect that would send Code Geass into the shadows and rewrite how anime would be made - K-ON and Bakemonogatari. K-ON presented the simplest of premises - high school, cake and occassionally some music. The story was irrelevant. (Supposedly the source material actually has one and is far different from the anime, but the way things are now, it's a mute point) It was all about the characters. Not that it was different from recent years. But it took a different approach to what it wanted to evoke within the viewer. The desired effect was not to engage the viewer. It was to leave them in a lull, chilling out and drifting away from reality for the duration of the episode. Characters were to be simplistic and win over the viewer with poses, being likeable and without flaw, even to the point of 'Mary Sue'-ness. Soundtracks needed to be laid-back and help the viewer drift away. KyoAni had made several moe series before, but always something that had a bit of stimulus somwhere. Not this time. It was now about the viewer feeling nothing bad at all. Almost as if Mustafa Mond had created a soma-like environment in the anime realm. And it worked beyond expectations. K-ON's sales have now dwarfed almost anything in existence, save Miyazaki and Evangelion. KyoAni raked in the cash while J.C. Staff's paradigm shifted purely to moe series to not be left in squalor like most studios were.

Bakemonogatari didn't quite go that far. It's not Shinbo's style. Sure, he had skills that were notable but under the constraints of budgets and deadlines, he could rarely flex them properly. But he did know what was selling. He had to incorporate that somehow. He had the tsunderes, he had the lolis. But how was he going to make the characters all that mattered? As usual, Shinbo couldn't keep to a deadline or properly even if he tried. But in a way reminiscent of Anno, Shinbo was able to make it a non-issue or at least forgivable. Text stills in scenes which couldn't be fully animated in time. Promise the full version will be on the DVD and look better too. In the meantime, lap up my characters. And people did. The lack of quality control and complete definace of the boundaries most studios and directors suffer didn't apply to Shinbo. He didn't need to follow the rules anymore. As long as the characters had lovable themes (Admittedly, Nadeko's theme is marketing genius despite my hatred of it), enough of the sought after poses, character type behaviours and flesh were shown, all would be forgiven. Someone had been paying attention to how Anno did business. It didn't matter if things were falling apart. Just give the people what they want. And thus Shinbo was given a license to do things his way without retribution. The 'we'll do it properly on DVD' catch took hold soon after. Promise of better animation, hidden episodes and uncensored material on DVD became a major selling point. Quality control's relevance as an issue had almost been made irrelevant. All the while Kon eventually met an early death in poverty despite critical acclaim, Shinkai was able to afford to live fairly well but his name was still down the order as far as Japan was concerned, Oshii gave his ultimate lament for the state of the industry, society and young people in The Sky Crawlers. Watanabe is still in hibernation, still smarting from what happened with Michiko e Hatchin. Anno remade Evangelion and put anything not K-ON or Miyazaki to shame in sales. Miyazaki cashed in big time with his cleverly targetted Ponyo and Hosoda also aimed for the right market with Summer Wars.


And that is where things lie at present. There seem to be only three formulas for success at present. Moe, Shounen Jump or kids/families. None of them are conducive to risk or being different. Creativity is no longer affordable if it isn't marketed appropriately. Seirei no Moribito had a lot of quality and love behind it, but its lack of effectively targetting a paying bunch of fans meant its million dollar per episode budget was a financial bomb. In this business, style and creativity only go so far. And ultimately, Japan is fine with it like that. It's been well documented that post-WW2, Japan has been alarmingly low on national pride and ambition. It took Commodore Perry to force Japan to trade with the outside world. The collapse of the 'bubble economy' didn't help either. When money is abundant and people are willing to sponsor more ambitious projects, you will see more variety. But in times of recession and being smashed by an earthquake and tsunami, it's just not going to happen. Japan can't afford to be risk-taking. We will see a conservative approach for quite some time now. Proven success will be replicated. Formulas will be followed. But perhaps, as Azuma said in his recent article printed in the New York Times, the earthquake did cause a change in attitudes within Japan for the better. The real question is, will it last? Will Japan finally take the steps for change and have some ambition/national pride? But perhaps moreso, when will Japan be able to afford it? And when will anime no longer be the negative social stigma it currently is and be recognised for its revenue, considering manga and anime are one of the country's biggest sources of revenue? (Top 3-4 last time I checked)

But anime - and manga for that matter - needs a proper 'New Wave'. Because if things stay the same, when the big titles run out, there might not be much left in the aftermath. Anime goes through phases, but the moe phase has lasted longer than the others and I don't want to see it dictate anime forever. Something needs to change. Ultimately, that's up to Japan. The people get what they want and they get what they deserve. And we will wait in anticipation.

[solomon]

Simply put, it likely already has. MULTIPLE ones infact.

The first one was the 70s with the first Lupin and Serious Mecha boom.

The second most potent one was EASILY the OVA era of the mid 80s to mid 90s

Finally I suppose the last one would be the explosion of late night shows, particulalry from the late 90s to early 00s.

With the contracting of audiences and super conservative nature of japanese buisness, don't look for anything else like this anytime soon.

Remember Japan is different from the west culturally so I don't think you can accurately graft western art movements onto theirs especially for mass media as I said, in Japan is VERY corporate and EXTREMELY conservative when it comes to doing new things (ever notice how few Asian outfits have offical digital archives of their content relative to the west?)

[Zeroryoko1974]

The new wave is to outsource everything to Korea and pay local animators less then people working at Mcdonalds.

[DJLowrider]

I'm going to preface my comments by saying I love Last Sinner's post overall and don't really have any major issues with his thoughts. I do want to touch on a few points, however.

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

- A 'new wave' is defined by a major shift in how anime is made
- 'New waves' tend to be dictated by financial factors or an unexpected success

While I agree, I think there are waves within waves that bear considering. Specifically when it comes to anime music.

Back in the 80's, and of course earlier, anime music was largely forgettable and was more comparable to traditional Japanese enka than anything that resembled modern pop music. Two series more or less catalyzed a change in how music was handled in anime and paved the way for more contemporary-sounding music in the medium. The Super Dimension Fortress Macross was the first. On top of being a show that turned the mecha genre on its ear and spawned a number of tropes, it featured a character in Lynn Minmay who was a pop idol and whose songs were far more current than most other series it was contemporary with. The other was Bubblegum Crisis. Again, it featured a character with a singing background, though in this instance it was a decidedly "harder", more rock-oriented style. In both cases, the music created for the series was a gigantic hit. So much so that whole concerts were held, recorded, and re-sold to further bankroll their series' popularity.

The result of this is music started being taken more seriously as an integral part of anime. Indeed, by the mid-90's anime music had evolved to the point that famous J-Pop singers and groups were being tapped to do OP and ED songs instead of relying on the seiyuu talent for the singing. Most famously, Rurouni Kenshin by the end of its TV run featured 3 different OPs and 7 EDs, all done by contemporary pop artists and groups. Many of those songs went on to be chart-topping hits as well for their time.

[Archon_Wing]

A new wave of creativity can only occur if it sells; that is the truth that money drives everything. There's plenty of creative works if you look around long enough.

Personally? I think 2011 is already looking up. Quality is there if you look for it. I don't really care for trends necessarily; no matter how good an idea is, if 2515135 copycats pop up it'll get old fast.

So new wave or not; I could really care less. Writers need to focus on making a story and telling that story. I guess that was in short supply.

Oh shit, I failed to answer the thread. I guess the last "wave" would probably be started by Haruhi and most of the popular series have been following that trend still.

Hint: most of these descriptions of era are defined in retrospect, it's hard to consider objectively analyzing an era when it's happening. You cannot predict the next landmark basically, and calling a recent anime a landmark is always a dubious call.

[solomon]

True, it's all about the bucks, which are tight these days. Probably tighter than ever.

Also it is true that it's all how you look at it, and what you're looking for. Sometimes I think people think the anime industry as some sort of industry with a high creative, maverick potency ala some studio altier or art house. That's taking things too far I am afraid (I know I did when I was younger).

However, when people figure out how to make big budget productions for the interntet and recoup their losses, WATCH OUT.

[Magin]

There's one more way in which anime was sort of re-defined... though for better or worse, I can't really say. I don't know whether it started with Love Hina or not, but that's the first one that leaps out at me when it comes to the infamous genre of harems. After all, there seems to be at least one or two harem-type shows per season, where multiple girls all like the same guy. Perhaps Macross was the blueprint for it- two girls liking one guy- but that was only a triangle and good for lots of drama. With the harems... well, the focus is more on comedy and the guy usually being an "accidental pervert", and the girls doing something violent to him that's usually taken as being hilarious

[Last Sinner]

Originally Posted by Magin

There's one more way in which anime was sort of re-defined... though for better or worse, I can't really say. I don't know whether it started with Love Hina or not, but that's the first one that leaps out at me when it comes to the infamous genre of harems. After all, there seems to be at least one or two harem-type shows per season, where multiple girls all like the same guy. Perhaps Macross was the blueprint for it- two girls liking one guy- but that was only a triangle and good for lots of drama. With the harems... well, the focus is more on comedy and the guy usually being an "accidental pervert", and the girls doing something violent to him that's usually taken as being hilarious

I did briefly mention that Urusei Yatsura was the first one to be a hit in that genre, but Love Hina is probably responsible for causing harem to take a more permanent hold. And before Love Hina, there was Tenchi Muyo.

[Marcus H.]

It has always been light novels and adaptations in general throughout early 2000 to today. The problem is, not all people are as keen to watching anime series as when it was still the legends of anime providing us with quality stories.

But I can't blame the industry.

Resorting to adaptations (and by extension, stories with an existing fanbase) are a defensive mechanism to the financial troubles Japan is experiencing. Shakugan no Shana, one of the series which pulled J.C. Staff to fame, is a light novel adaptation, and Bakemonogatari is also a light novel turned anime.

I think this is not the time to expect the industry to have a New Wave; it is a big risk considering Ishihara's motions against the industry still have an uncertain impact. Also, it might backfire in the worst-case scenario.

[Magin]

True... I still consider Tenchi to be the Ultimate Harem series (and damn, I'd forgotten that the Tenchi OVA's were before Love Hina). And Urusei Yatsura... the only problem is, it's a much older series, and Takahashi essentially buried it in terms of success with stuff like Ranma and Inuyasha (not sure of the chronological order of the series). And tenchi... well, the biggest differences between Tenchi and Love Hina are that Tenchi was originally a series of OVA's (the TV versions failed, hard), and Tenchi is far from the infamous spineless male lead of a harem. Love Hina... well, not only did it broadcast on TV, but it also took Anno's creation of shinji (the spineless male wimp) and put it into a situation of mutliple girls liking that character type... and depending on who you talk to, also made it a great source of comedy

The only problem is that now 95% of harems are almost all the same... and therefore have been given a bad name (which unfortunately is rather deserved)

[Master_Yoma]

It would be great to see a new wave of longer anime that 26 to 50eps more instead of all these 12 or 13eps with an OVA at the last dvd release. But it good to watch any short anime then no anime at all

[0utf0xZer0]

@Last Sinner:

I don't think Bakemonogatari was as much the result of some marketing genius on Shinbo's part as you're implying. Most interviews suggest he's not really sure himself why it ended up being so big. Plus, cutting corners then fixing it for the DVD as a Shaft practice goes back to at least 2004, and the weird visuals were nothing new... I can't really see anything I'd expect him to do differently with a smaller property.

Furthermore, I don't attribute the show's success just to the characters. I consider Hitagi integral to the show's success, but as memorable as she is, she's basically a tall, dark and bishoujo character. The better than average script meant that the characters' depth was more Toradora than Shana, but that still doesn't explain 80K sales.

If I had to point out a secret sauce in Bakemonogatari's success, it's actually that the show breaks a major rule of moe shows: moe shows are generally either light and fluffy or heartfelt tearjerkers. Bakemonogatari, on the other had, is "sharp, and edgy". That's why Hitagi is infinitely more memorable than most similar characters I can think (I think Kampfer had one?), and while much of that edgyness comes from the original novels, I can't help but credit Shinbo some as well - unlike most directors, he had previous experience with this style from working on Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei. I've had friends of mine mention this stylistic difference multiple times when discussing Bakemonogatari.

And before someone says "but what about Nadeko? How is she edgy?", remember that Shinbo only directed the second episode of her arc. The softer bits of Nadeko's arc - the bits in episode 9 and the infamous Renai Circulation OP - are actually the work of Shin Oonuma - a known moe enthusiast and the director of the two EF animes - working at the relatively minor studio Silver Link. I also must credit some of Bakemonogatari's success to market conditions - few expected Haruhi season 2 to be quite the disaster it was, and in typical otaku fashion suddenly freed up cash was going to go somewhere.

For reference, I'd also credit the "light and fluffy" style common to most moe to Azumanga Diaoh - its what I see as the show's biggest influence on the industry, really.

As to the actual opening topic... I don't know enough film history to really make a good judgment on it myself.

[Last Sinner]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

For reference, I'd also credit the "light and fluffy" style common to most moe to Azumanga Diaoh - its what I see as the show's biggest influence on the industry, really.

Said that at the start of my 00s section.

As for Shinbo, I don't like him one bit. I found it hard to have to talk about him in a positive light, but his success can't be refuted so I mentioned him. As for the characters, I disagree. Aspects of them may be edgy, at least with Hitagi, but subsequent characters felt way too formulaic. Heck, I've had Nadeko and Shinobu fans tell me they love them for being so formulaic. *shrug* I guess my major point in discussing Shinbo was he defies logic and the rules in ways creepily similar to Anno. If you like him, power to you. I consider him Anno reincarnate.

[0utf0xZer0]

I don't think it was ever necessary for the edgy tone to permeate every character... it set the mood for the show and its lead girl (maybe Kanbaru too to a lesser extent), which set it apart from the pack. And I consider the lead girl to often set the tone for a series anyway - explains why so many moe shows give the lead to the "high spirited" girl.

As for Nadeko, what really set her apart for me (other than Renai Circulation, of course), is that she's a masterful "stealth tease". She's not just playing "capture the onii-chan", she's playing with the intention of winning.

[Last Sinner]

Actually, what you said about Hitagi in your first post makes Bakemonogatari sounds like a H-game without the 18+ material. Heck, that might almost explain it...huh...

Speaking of ero-games, that's something I neglected to mention in my rant. Ero-games are now heavily adapted into animes. So which one triggered it off? To Heart's adaptation in 1999? Or was that too early? Because it seems at the point KyoAni was adapting Key's titles, it was already normal for titles of that origin to be adapted.

Any suggestions?

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Actually, what you said about Hitagi in your first post makes Bakemonogatari sounds like a H-game without the 18+ material. Heck, that might almost explain it...huh...

Speaking of ero-games, that's something I neglected to mention in my rant. Ero-games are now heavily adapted into animes. So which one triggered it off? To Heart's adaptation in 1999? Or was that too early? Because it seems at the point KyoAni was adapting Key's titles, it was already normal for titles of that origin to be adapted.

Any suggestions?

According to Satoshi Todome's History of eroge: Naito Uōkā – Mayonaka no Tantei- (Night Walker - Midnight Detective) in 1998 was the first non-hentai TV-series anime based on an ero-game. To Heart (1999) was the first popular eroge based TV series.

[Last Sinner]

That would explain why figures of Tamaki are always in production, heh.

[Triple_R]

I'm surprisingly much more encouraged about the future of the anime industry now than I was a year ago.

A year ago, I felt that the anime industry had learned virtually nothing from the success of Bakemonogatari, and that it was increasingly dominated by run-of-the-mill fanservice titles and works driven by modern anime conventions.


But one Winter 2011 anime is very much bucking the trend, and becoming the hit anime of the Winter 2011 season while doing so.

And that anime is Puella Magi Madoka Magica.


Now, I don't want to overhype the show. I'm not yet ready to call it a masterpiece (this being a word that I use very sparingly), and it's probably not for everyone. But it is different. And at the very least, I would say that it has good quality.

And it is achieving success in spite of, or perhaps even due to, the following:

1) No fanservice. This is a show dominated by teenage girl characters, and I don't recall seeing a single panty shot.

2) No slapstick comedy, or really any form of comedic character victimization.

3) No tsunderes. There is a female character in here that I would consider kuudere, but I wouldn't consider her tsundere. Most of the characters in this anime do not fit comfortably into the more common anime archetypes.

4) Very few clear-cut shoutouts to other animes. This is not an anime steeped in referential humor.

5) It's an anime original work.


I think that SHAFT has shown with this anime, and its success, that the tastes of the core otaku fanbase of Japan may be more broad than what many had suspected.

I also think that Madoka Magica's success may well suggest the following:

1) Moe definitely helps anime sales, and overall commercial success. But it's mostly a matter of moe character design. It's mostly a matter of the characters looking moe, and at least some of them having pleasant and likable personalities. In other words, you don't need to have cute girls doing cute things. You simply need cute girls (if you're aiming for the core otaku fanbase). So the dominance of moe in the modern anime industry doesn't necessarily limit the types of stories that can be told, or how dark a story can be, or how sharp the dialogue can be, or how sophisticated the ideas being explored in the anime can be.

2) Anime originals are still frequently worth the investment. Angel Beats!, Star Driver, and now Madoka Magica, are all anime originals, and each was amongst the most successful animes of their respective seasons, if not the most successful anime of their season. All have come out within the past 12 months. Creators with original ideas, like Jun Maeda and Gen Urobuchi, can still pitch such ideas and scripts to studios like P.A. Works and SHAFT, and possibly get somewhere with it. Not everything needs to be an adaptation.


A year ago, I had a fairly negative view of the creative limitations of the modern anime industry. But now, I have a much more positive view here.


There still are some elements that an anime typically (if not always) needs to have in order to be commercially successful. But those elements may not be as numerous as many think, and they alone may allow considerable room for writer creativity and story premise.

[Marcus H.]

Puella Magi Madoka Magica just proves that moe can exist in the darkest of themes, and we do not need to create cute girls because we need to (like what Mio Akiyama turned out in K-ON!!). Although this does not work all the time (Nessa can be a cute female lead, but Fractale still bombed), and it still needs a story that is worth watching.

The loyal supporters of the anime industry turns out to be more intelligent than what we first thought.