2013-12-30, 13:24 | Link #2401 | |
Franco's Phalanx is next!
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Little England, Europe and Asia
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Yes, these are solid financial decisions, but I don't watch anime because they are profitable or accessible, but I treat them like art, not fast food.
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2013-12-30, 13:36 | Link #2402 | ||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Their biggest success, K-on!, is arguably a completely unexpected result due to various circumstances, and hardly because of the source material. Quote:
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2013-12-30 at 13:52. |
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2013-12-30, 13:56 | Link #2403 | |
Franco's Phalanx is next!
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Little England, Europe and Asia
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This studio has a lot of control over what they decide to animate now. And don't forget that most big studios are part of the production committees.
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2013-12-30, 14:05 | Link #2404 | ||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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The turning point was definitely Chuunibyou, followed by Tamako Market. And from there, you cannot claim that they "know they can sell as long as it is cute", as Chuunibyou had a fine result, but Tamako Market was a financial bomb compared to other series. Let's not talk about Nichijou which was actually worse than FMP:TSR in term of sales (or slightly better, I don't remember). OTOH, Free proved that their attempts to expand their horizons paid off as well, while still with a production choice that is within their grasp due to the LN label. It is a given that KyoAni staff has their habits and methods for specific aspects of an anime series (one of them being cute stuff), but it is quite obvious to me that the presentation itself is overwhelming people for no good reason, considering the major genre shift rotation they followed over the last few years: Romance-comedy / slife of life / sport series aimed for women / fantasy. Quote:
And until I missed the memo, I don't remember that most big studios could have such privileges. I'm curious of that list.
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2013-12-30, 14:27 | Link #2405 | |
Nyahahahaha♥
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There's two misconceptions going on with "original IPs." Other studios have created original IPs where they get a royalty payment from everything from keychains to video discs, see P.A. Works' trio (and now quartet) of works that are highly praised. The difference between P.A. Works/Sunrise/Shaft/etc and KyoAni is that KyoAni has been contributing more to their newer line-up than the former does. Yes, Madoka earns a lot of money, but Shaft gets 1/4th the royalty payments (or less depending how the Magical Quartet was structured) and is 6th of 6 companies in the production committee, meaning they only get a sliver of the proceeds after Aniplex, Houbunsha, Hakuhodo DY Media Partners, Nitroplus, and Movic get their shares. On the other hand, the committees for CTFK works go: Kyoto Animation Pony Canyon Lantis - Absent for T TBS/Asahi Broadcasting (for F only) Only four studios led production committees (Sunrise, Toei, Gonzo) and no other studio funded the most of any member on every single production on the year. There's no other studio doing anything like this; not even Toei/Sunrise do it. It's on a whole different level.
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2013-12-30, 14:29 | Link #2406 | ||
Franco's Phalanx is next!
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Little England, Europe and Asia
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Nevertheless, my point was (and still is) that the KyoAni of 2002-06, 2007-11, and 2012+ have very little to do with each other. Quote:
chara-ani.com Kadokawa Shoten Kamiyama High School Classical OB Department Kyoto Animation Lantis The Klockworx Co., Ltd. for Nichijou Kadokawa Pictures Kadokawa Shoten Kyoto Animation Lantis MOVIC Shinonome Lab The Klockworx Co., Ltd. for K-On!! Kyoto Animation MOVIC Pony Canyon TBS for the Haruhi remake Kadokawa Pictures Kadokawa Shoten Kyoto Animation Lantis SOS Dan The Klockworx Co., Ltd. Need more?
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2013-12-30, 14:46 | Link #2407 | |
Nyahahahaha♥
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2013-12-30, 14:47 | Link #2408 | ||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Then, why did they produce Free and Kyoukai no Kanata? The former is a complete antithesis to such assertion, while the latter, despite presenting moe elements, isn't anything centred to that unlike Tamako Market. The choice of adaptations is obviously different from before, but imho, KyoAni staff didn't really change their mindset and their habits. Quote:
Suffice to say, the point didn't change that much: we know that since chuunibyou, they became the major actor in the production commitee. Prior that, they were basically for hire. In both cases, they are still aiming for profits, especially considering their current state due to their new position. So it is still a matter of business either way, so expecting work of art is quite demanding considering the anime industry as of now.
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2013-12-30, 15:02 | Link #2411 | |||
Franco's Phalanx is next!
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Little England, Europe and Asia
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Mainichi Broadcasting System Sunrise for Monogatari Series: Aniplex Kodansha SHAFT for Hagane no Renkinjutsushi: Aniplex BONES Mainichi Broadcasting System Square Enix for Uta no Prince: A-1 Pictures Broccoli Dwango MOVIC Showgate Starchild Records Uta☆Puri Production Partners More? Now look, if the credits don't convince you, you can consider how each studio ends up animating similar genres and troupes. Is it only because they are good at it, so the producers send to them similar material and they slavishly accept or it works both ways, and studios are able to ask and in many cases choose what to work on. I didn't want to imply that they have absolute control (like KyoAni is attempting), but that they have a big say on what they will work on, and how they will animate and direct the end result. Quote:
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-12-30 at 15:27. Reason: fixed quote references |
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2013-12-30, 15:16 | Link #2412 | |
Nyahahahaha♥
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SEED Destiny was indeed: MBS Sunrise However, this was mostly funded by MBS as it was only shown on their station at 18:00 on Saturdays. Misleading to say Sunrise contributed a lot to the project. Monogatari Series: Aniplex Kodansha Shaft As seen by my Madoka example above, Shaft isn't known for financing a lot of their productions. They'll get a small sliver of revenue. Hagane no Renkinjutsushi (original): Mainichi Broadcasting System Aniplex Bones As mentioned above, this aired in the MBS 18:00 Saturday slot, indicative of MBS paying most of the costs. Aniplex picked up a lot, and Bones gave some to the project. Brotherhood: Aniplex Square Enix Bones MBS (listed outside) So Bones is low company on the totem pole again to Aniplex and SE. MBS contributes a lot due to being listed outside (equal or less than the committee itself) due to running it at 17:00 on Saturdays. Uta no Prince: King Records Broccoli A-1 Pictures Dwango MOVIC Showgate Finally someone not listed at the bottom. A-1 likely got a good chunk of money from the series, but not as much as King/Brocoli did. Still not listed at the top like KyoAni/Sunrise/Toei/Gonzo though. Here's a little bit of help. I went through all the late night stuff that gets tracked by anime fans in Japan from 2013 and listed out the production committees in actual order, not the alphabetical nonsense ANN uses, which doesn't tell the real funding situation.
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2013-12-30, 15:22 | Link #2413 | ||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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It isn't like presentation similarities are unheard of (like how Sunrise use the same kind of camera pan for projectiles etc, regardless if it is a gundam series or not. Same can be said for certain deaths in a given series), but I certainly believe that being stuck with it is just ignoring completely the contrast between other series done so far. Quote:
As for the point brought here: you really have to think about how every anime production isn't always the same. While you have studio like Shaft that impose their own messy schedule, I see little evidence for others that have such liberty, whereas they work on like clockwork, even to the point of outsourcing.
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2013-12-30, 15:41 | Link #2414 |
Franco's Phalanx is next!
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Little England, Europe and Asia
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@ultimatemegax: I agree that in most cases, the animation studio is not the biggest contributor and beneficiary of the production, I never supported the opposite, but even in your list, which uses the credit's order (I assume), you find the animation studio in almost all production.
@Klashikari: What I wrote above, plus the expertise the animation studio offers is an overwhelming influence to the end result. It is very hard to classify anime by distributor for example, but most fans can tell after one or two scenes or even by reading a story synopsis which studio is behind an anime. Like it or not, animation studios also have those unpleasant guys that make executive decisions, and much more influential on the end result we get, then a TV or Record label executive. The only ones who have a stronger say are large distributors and powerful owners of the original source. That was and is my point, I hope I provided where it is based on, now you want to disagree with their validity, that's another story, and I am quite frankly not interested in going there. KyoAni realized at some point that it could do better financially with just moe-blobs (of either sex), usually not accompanied with any story, and decided to leave the model most studios follow. Which means the anime that made me like the studio have zero chance of concluding on screen, and that in the near future, anime like Free and Kanata would be the epitome of their storytelling ability, which is not good enough for me.
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2013-12-30, 15:47 | Link #2415 | |
Nyahahahaha♥
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The people who decide what studio to use are the producers at video distributors and the connections they have (eg. Aniplex and A-1 Pictures/Shaft). Those are the people who determine which studio will work on which project. Eg. JC Staff was contracted on Little Busters by Warner Home Video by a producer who worked previously with that studio; they didn't request the project themselves. According to producer Oohashi at CTFK, KyoAni wanted to make original shows to become closer to the fans and be able to directly interact at events and sell merchandise to them directly. That's the big reason for the shift. (The additional revenue sources are a huge boost, including one people don't really think about: being on the Sales Committee for video discs unlike every other studio.)
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2013-12-30, 16:48 | Link #2416 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: City of Heroes
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You can see (Extremely) very high value production poured into that two works. Hyouka breaking up as the best visual animated TV series ever produced. To top it off, it wasn't adapted from a random LN. It was an award-winning Novel. And Yasuhiro Takemoto himself is well-known for his works in Haruhi and Disappearance. But, look at the number says. People often goes with simple logic: Well talented staff + good story = win. It was never that easy. Heck, even Infinite Stratos puts Hyouka to shame (sales wise). That was why the studio stop even caring anymore. And stop even trying. |
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2013-12-30, 17:01 | Link #2417 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Anyway, that aside... your comment that "most fans can tell after one or two scenes or even by reading a story synopsis which studio is behind an anime" is also rather suspicious to me. Even though studios may form relationships with certain production partners, there are always outliers that don't fit the pattern. This seems tied to the above when you've lumped all these shows together as "moe-blobs", and are presuming "when people think moe-blobs, they think KyoAni!"... but this is an extremely superficial view. Quote:
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2013-12-30, 18:03 | Link #2418 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Austria
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It's hard to tell you exactly what it is, and by far the worst offender is Chuunibyou, though it's the most jarring in Kyoukai no Kanata. I'm aware it's entirely subjective, and from experience I know it's also hard to communicate what exactly bothers me, and how this is different from other shows I do like. Imagine you're a teenager and your Dad is trying to tell dirty jokes to your friends. Imagine your favourite aunt giving you stale cookies, but you haven't got the heart to tell her. The KyoAni feel - to me - is: good-natured but patronising; it feels as if they use "aww isn't that cute?" as a means to dismiss emotions. It's the overplayed embarrassment in Chuunibyou (but then why doesn't similar outrage in Oreshura bother me?). It's the bland inanity of K-On (but then why do I like A Channel?). It's hard to pin down, and I wonder how much of it is prejudice (some of it is, since Kokoro Connect had an emotional strike against it simply because the character designs reminded me of K-On), and how much of it is simply personal incompatibility. It's interesting to note that, to me, while the elements were strong in Tamako Market, too, they also unfolded a sort of "strength". It's my favourite of the KyoAni shows that are saturated with that feel. I'm having trouble being fair to KyoAni shows, but it's definitely not "lens blur". It's something else, and I think "allergy distortion" might describe that something pretty well. |
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2013-12-30, 18:10 | Link #2419 | |
Franco's Phalanx is next!
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Little England, Europe and Asia
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PS: As for suffering from "lens blur", I humbly disagree, but don't wish to reply at such personal observations. I'd rather stick to facts, opinions and interpretations, rather than analyze the psychology of my peers, that is never productive in any discussion
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2013-12-30, 21:58 | Link #2420 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Perhaps, to Dawnstorm's point, this is more like an allergy to a certain sort of spice, and the presence of this element taints the whole work to some viewers. To others who don't necessarily mind this "spice", the experience is defined more by other elements of the work (that they may like or dislike in their own right). Obviously that is still an oversimplification. At a certain point in the conversation, it's more productive to try to understand why the different parties see things differently rather than continuing to argue at brick walls over key differences in perspective.
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