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Old 2010-06-25, 17:30   Link #1501
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soconfused View Post
People have such entitlement issues these days. You're getting a new game with a ton of balance and system changes, 3 new chars, new story mode, godlike netcode (hopefully again) and god knows what else for 40 bucks. 40 bucks, I would of payed 60. If Makoto not being on the disc is making your wallet cry that much, don't buy her, it's always that simple.
Oh ffs you realize the reason SSFIV and Blazblue CS are both $40 is because the vast overwhelming majority of people believe these should be DLC period and not another retail game.

It would be market suicide to release these games at full prices, Capcom did not want to do it with SSFIV and even though SSFIV has sold over a million copies worldwide they will not do it again. This has been discussed again and again on Neogaf which has people who actually know what they fuck they're talking about.

You ask any casual gaming friends of yours who picked up SFIV or the first Blazblue (lol) if they picked up SSFIV or want the next Blazblue and they'll either say not interested and it should be DLC or get it and whine that it should be DLC anyway. Of the 7 or so I know IRL only 2 picked it up and both think it should be DLC.

SFIV to SSFIV went from like 3 million to 1 million, Blazblue CT is like what.. 500,000? CS will probably do 200,000. These figures would be even worse if sold @ full price.

Both Capcom and Akysys know they won't get away with another retail disc, why do you think both are going forward with DLC balance patches and DLC characters? (Capcom haven't confirmed the later but the arcade version due in October is bound to have more characters in addition to a rebalance.. it makes no sense to release the console version in the arcades 6 months lateer... and they hinted around that timeframe of balance changes)

I prefer Capcom's more than likely intended method since it's combing the changes + new characters in one patch to match it with the future arcade version. Instead of insulting releasing characters a month after the game came out which could've made the retail disc and just messes with the tourny scene.

Quote:
And people love to bring up ssf4: "we got 10 new chars with ssf4, wtf asky?!"

No, you got 2 new chars, and 8 chars from previous games. It's alot easier to look into your giant bag of chars and pull out a few, that already have there look, movesets, and combos already done, then just throw them into your new engine. It takes time to actually make a character from the ground up.
Oh hey look someone who doesn't know wtf they're talking about.

Quote:
with that said, it would of been nice if Makoto was on the disc, or even just include her with the limited edition, but it's nothing to really cry about. we live in the age of dlc, games cost significantly more to make today then they did in the ps1/2 days, at the end of the day, asky is a business, just like any other. they wanna feed there kids. Everyones gonna have to suck it up.
It's attitudes like this that allows them to get away with it. I don't think you people realize that the more we accept this shit as the norm, the worse it's going to get, THQ are already inputting online locks so 2nd hand games can't go online without a DLC unlock.

You and everyone else in this thread has to realize this this is bigger than Blazblue, so put your fucking Blazblue pom poms down and realize I'm speaking in general.

Be interesting to see if the DLC characters for this damage the tourny scene.. I just expect a ban on Mu-12 and DLC characters in serious tournaments now.
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Old 2010-06-25, 18:01   Link #1502
Fenrir_valindri
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Considering they have already stated they are going to patch arcades with the Console exclusive characters like Mu-12. In the long run, I doubt they will be banned.

There is already a sizable discussion about the entire matter on dustloop, and it really doesn't bare repeating here. (too lengthy)

As for the rest of your post, its pretty clear that you are just looking down your nose at everyone else in this thread. Several people have already given their own point of view on the matter, and in the long run I'd rather be pay for an additional character, that wasn't originally in the game, then some of the more gimmicky stuff like additional costumes (which, before the DLC era, was crap you could simply unlock in game).

If your shaking your fist at every DLC that comes down the line yelling "it should have been on the disc!!1!!" your missing the entire point of DLC.

Also, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure BB:CS adds a lot more to the original BB:CT then SSFIV did for SFIV.

Considering it revamps the combat system, has an entirely new story-mode and redesigned levels, as well as other features not present in the BB:CT such as the tutorial mode.

While SSFIV has simply expanded its cast (which it already had a sizable pool to draw from), and added a few gimmicky stuff (car and barrel stages), to cater to longtime fans.

On a final note, comparing the sales of BB and SF is ridiculous imo, Street Fighter is a franchise that has been around for over a decade and is so hyped that is effectively the Halo (or MWF if you prefer) of Fighting games.
Of course it would sell more! It has a sizable fan base not just in Japan, but overseas as well.

Blazblue is the new kid on the block, and is only now launching its first sequel, and I honestly enjoy it a lot more then SFIV.
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Old 2010-06-25, 18:22   Link #1503
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Considering they have already stated they are going to patch arcades with the Console exclusive characters like Mu-12. In the long run, I doubt they will be banned.
They'll be banned until the arcade units get updated.

Quote:
As for the rest of your post, its pretty clear that you are just looking down your nose at everyone else in this thread. Several people have already given their own point of view on the matter, and in the long run I'd rather be pay for an additional character, that wasn't originally in the game, then some of the more gimmicky stuff like additional costumes (which, before the DLC era, was crap you could simply unlock in game).
I'll rather pay for a cosmetic addition and actually have these characters included in the game but hey your mileage may vary! And you know stuff like Makoto you could've unlocked before the DLC era anyway lol! Thankfully Capcom and SNK are still giving us console exclusive characters with their games that don't require DLC.

Quote:
If your shaking your fist at every DLC that comes down the line yelling "it should have been on the disc!!1!!" your missing the entire point of DLC.
Why did I even bother to say I like Capcom's method for Super when people aren't even fucking reading what I'm saying? Seriously Makoto is one month after release, it's not like it's 3-6 months, she's done now. It takes 6 months to make a character, at least it does for KOF XIi/XIII, no idea about the poorly animated BB characters. Akysys has never had good animation in their games.. if SNK had gone HD spirtes wth KOF XII even the clueless would notice the difference.

Quote:
Also, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure BB:CS adds a lot more to the original BB:CT then SSFIV did for SFIV.

Considering it revamps the combat system, has an entirely new story-mode and redesigned levels, as well as other features not present in the BB:CT such as the tutorial mode.

While SSFIV has simply expanded its cast (which it already had a sizable pool to draw from), and added a few gimmicky stuff (car and barrel stages), to cater to longtime fans.
It does add more but to just go "hey capcom just dropped 8 characters in from other games lolz" is beyond retarded. I suppose King of Fighters XIII is just crap since every new character is from previous SNK games, oh wait I forgot it's only cool to bash Capcom!

Trial mode should've been in the game in the first place, hopefully it's more like VF4 Evo than SFIV and arcade request fight mode is lifted from SFIV anyway moot point since it should be in every fighting game. And lol story is lol. and 5 brand new levels > 3 brand new levels and some redesigns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
On a final note, comparing the sales of BB and SF is ridiculous imo, Street Fighter is a franchise that has been around for over a decade and is so hyped that is effectively the Halo (or MWF if you prefer) of Fighting games.
Of course it would sell more! It has a sizable fan base not just in Japan, but overseas as well.
Read what I actually wrote before you reply. you'll look smarter that way.

Last edited by Westlo; 2010-06-25 at 18:40.
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Old 2010-06-25, 18:42   Link #1504
Tokkan
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIUfBceCtsc

Kaqn playing Noel, Noel cosplayer playing Mu.

Mu doesn't look broken for now, looks more B or C-tier.

Last edited by Tokkan; 2010-06-25 at 18:59.
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Old 2010-06-25, 20:51   Link #1505
Duo Maxwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
I'll rather pay for a cosmetic addition and actually have these characters included in the game but hey your mileage may vary! And you know stuff like Makoto you could've unlocked before the DLC era anyway lol! Thankfully Capcom and SNK are still giving us console exclusive characters with their games that don't require DLC.
I think it's pointless to continue, because even if they include Makoto in the disc, then release the next 2 DLC character, you'll still whine about how they should also in the disc anyway.
What THQ did is bullshit, but ArkSys isn't because they are trying to prolong the game without many revision, and I'm all for it.
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Old 2010-06-25, 21:13   Link #1506
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I'd like to point that from the screens we've seen of her, the patch that includes Makoto is not done since in those screens there are texture problems with the stage. If the stage is bugged in the screen, she might also be bugged.

Complaining that this should've already been in the game is also silly, the game entered RTM over a month ago at the least, they might not have been finished with her by then. DLC is also a good way of making an extra buck without having to pay for the mass-production. Besides, Arc Sys are a small company and drawing the 1,000-ish frames of a character's sprite reportedly takes 3 months to complete. If they really have another 2 characters coming, it would require even more work done. And Mu was promised from the very first announcement of the console version anyway, they had to include her on the disc.

Complaining that all the DLC characters should be released at the same time is, again, silly. Releasing things in niblets helps keep interest in the game.

I'm not going to deny there are some shitty DLC practices out there, but I reckon that considering every single bit of Mass Effect 2's DLC combined is almost 3 gigs in size, which is nearly a third of the standalone game's size when installed on PC, DLC is not really a bad thing.

Last edited by Tokkan; 2010-06-25 at 21:45.
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Old 2010-06-25, 21:40   Link #1507
Fenrir_valindri
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Quite frankly Westlo, your just making yourself out to be a hater at this point; insulting people who don't agree with and blatantly stating you don't think Aksys deliver quality work in the first place.

So I honestly have nothing else to comment on, because your clearly just going to post whatever you want and ignore/insult any other meaningful input over the subject.
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Last edited by Fenrir_valindri; 2010-06-25 at 22:03.
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Old 2010-06-25, 21:41   Link #1508
SonOfHeaven
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I'm all for DLC characters for BBCS. As long as one new character isn't $20. I'll pay anything under that. I'll support Arc Systems since they're an great company who gave us the best fighter ever in Guilty Gear in my opinion. And they listen to the players as well. I respect that.
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Old 2010-06-25, 21:58   Link #1509
germanturkey
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I still think selling character by character is a horrible business model. getting bite sized pieces of content at a time isn't satisfying as a gamer. I would much rather pay for a yearly "new" game with a rebalance, new story, new characters, and new content than pay a couple bucks at a time for pieces of it.

yeah, we're in the age of DLC, but that lets developers become lazy in how they craft games. "Oh, we missed our goal, but its okay, because the content we didn't finish we can add in DLC." the old mentality was, content that wasn't finished was pushed off until the next game.

besides, the fanbase of arksys is large enough that most people will buy, or at least go to the arcade and play, a new iteration of the game. heck, i'm going back to toronto and Lovegety Station next week to play this damn game.

so, did anyone see Galileo own with Tager? disgusting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZx0VTOQQrc

also, they severely need to fix /\'s 236d. either make the hitbox what the animation is, or make the animation what the hitbox is. its so frustrating to think that it hits, but it really wiffs.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:06   Link #1510
Fenrir_valindri
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That is a godly Tager
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:23   Link #1511
Duo Maxwell
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Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
I still think selling character by character is a horrible business model. getting bite sized pieces of content at a time isn't satisfying as a gamer. I would much rather pay for a yearly "new" game with a rebalance, new story, new characters, and new content than pay a couple bucks at a time for pieces of it.
They refuse to comment about DLC character will have new story or not, so we're not sure if they have any intend or not, and we get a free "rebalancing" patch for each 6 months. At this rate I prefer the DLC more than yearly games, honestly.

I always heard people wished for thing like updating and expansion patch for the previous GG games instead of a bunch of revision, and now we have people want to go back to that era?
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:27   Link #1512
germanturkey
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did they actually promise free balancing patches in the future? i know there will be one in the winter, but did they say anything beyond that? I'm fairly sure they're doing the free patch because:
1. they shafted the arcade version with(out) Mu
2. they realized the game isn't nearly as balanced as they thought it was when they released it

could be wrong, but that's just how i see things.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:37   Link #1513
Fenrir_valindri
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From my understanding, the Patch for the Arcade is still quite a while down the road.(6 months?) So it would be no surprise if Makoto and other DLC characters made it into the big arcade patch.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:39   Link #1514
Duo Maxwell
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Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
From my understanding, the Patch for the Arcade is still quite a while down the road.(6 months?) So it would be no surprise if Makoto and other DLC characters made it into the big arcade patch.
They promise to patch the arcade with DLC character, if my mind serves me right from their FAQS page, so Makoto is no doubt will be in the arcade. Thus, I don't see a point NOT to include the next 2 characters in the arcade patch.
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Old 2010-06-26, 00:05   Link #1515
kk2extreme
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I want to see Mu-12 vs Noel, would there be a special dialogue like the one with jin vs hakumen?
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Old 2010-06-26, 00:13   Link #1516
Westlo
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I like how when Soul Calibur IV had Yoda or Vader as DLC depending on platform it was completely panned but because this is "Blazblue" and Aksys and not money hungry Scamco it's a-ok! DLC characters are a horrible trend for fighting games, I have no problems with DLC patches to update revisions of said game (including balance and additional characters) since that is the way forward but DLC for separate character is horrible.

Btw I've noticed from my rep that people agree with me, don't be afraid to chime in against these guys, speak up as well.

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Originally Posted by Tokkan View Post
Complaining that all the DLC characters should be released at the same time is, again, silly. Releasing things in niblets helps keep interest in the game.
Releasing new characters at the same time as the rebalance patch is effectively giving you the next revision of that game, that's how it should be done, releasing single character DLC should've died with Yoda and Vader in SCIV. ANd really now, if you need to keep interest in the game one month after release you're doing something wrong.

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Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Quite frankly Westlo, your just making yourself out to be a hater at this point; insulting people who don't agree with and blatantly stating you don't think Aksys deliver quality work in the first place.
The only negative comment I've made about the quality of Aksys work is in regards to animation, and the animation of all Aksys games from Guilty Gear to Blazblue is frankly crap compared to stuff like StreetFighter III, Garou Mark of the Wolves and KOF XII/XIII.

You can believe otherwise but you don't know what you're talking about than, you're on the same level as people who thought those amazingly animated episodes of Naruto (133) had worse animation becasue the character designs where different.

It's no opinion, it's fact since you look at the amount of frames those games contain. I give Aksys credit for going to HD sprites though.... but if SNK had gone for HD sprites KOF XII wouldn't be out by now.. actually it would never be out and SNK would be bankrupt... that's how much better the animation is in that game compared to Blazblue.

Quote:
So I honestly have nothing else to comment on, because your clearly just going to post whatever you want and ignore/insult any other meaningful input over the subject.
Well I wouldn't comment if I was you anymore either, I mean you turned my "this is the reason Capcom and Aksys are going forward with rebalance patches instead of more retail games" comment into "SF SELLS WAY MORE THAN BB LOLOLOL" It's amazing how you did that.

Last edited by Westlo; 2010-06-26 at 00:28.
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Old 2010-06-26, 00:41   Link #1517
Tokkan
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
I like how when Soul Calibur IV had Yoda or Vader as DLC depending on platform it was completely panned but because this is "Blazblue" it's a-ok!
When someone asked about that on Dustloop, an ex-Soulcalibur fan came out and said all the SC guys were a bunch of zealous idiots and the whole thing resulted in a mindless bitchfest for months and never went anywhere which was why he stopped playing.

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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
DLC characters are a horrible trend for fighting games, I have no problems with DLC patches to update revisions of said game (including balance and additional characters) but DLC separate character is horrible.
I bet $5 on Arc Sys releasing all of them as a pack a month after the final one is released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
The only negative comment I've made about the quality of Aksys work is in regards to animation, and the animation of all Aksys games from Guilty Gear to Blazblue is frankly crap compared to stuff like StreetFighter III, Garou Mark of the Wolves and KOF XII/XIII.
I can deal with 9ish-frame sprite animations of Blazblue over the motherfucking ugly KOF XII/XIII sprites. Don't really care about animation quality so long as it's aestheticly pleasing and has all the necessary animations. I think the 1000-ish frames of animation each BB character has is fine as is.
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Old 2010-06-26, 00:48   Link #1518
Westlo
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Originally Posted by Tokkan View Post
When someone asked about that on Dustloop, an ex-Soulcalibur fan came out and said all the SC guys were a bunch of zealous idiots and the whole thing resulted in a mindless bitchfest for months and never went anywhere which was why he stopped playing.
I don't follow the SC scene but the people panning it were general people, think neogaf and the like instead of whatever the SC equivalent is for srk/dustloop.

Quote:
I can deal with 9ish-frame sprite animations of Blazblue over the motherfucking ugly KOF XII/XIII sprites. Don't really care about animation quality so long as it's aestheticly pleasing and has all the necessary animations. I think the 1000-ish frames of animation each BB character has is fine as is.
I'm not a fan of the KOF designs either.. well mainly for the women.. wtf did they do to Athena... not to impressed with Yuri and King either.. at least Mai looks descent.. anway... the animation difference between it and BB is like comparing an animated movie to tv series. Yeah it gets the job done and it's aesthetically pleasing but it's not "hating" to mention it. Aksys fans have known this for a long time.. GG was never in the same league as SFIII or Garou...
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Old 2010-06-26, 01:06   Link #1519
Tokkan
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
I don't follow the SC scene but the people panning it were general people, think neogaf and the like instead of whatever the SC equivalent is for srk/dustloop.
Oh. I thought the general people were panning it because what was the point of them supposedly being exclusive if they were going to be DLC on the other console anyway.
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Old 2010-06-26, 01:12   Link #1520
Westlo
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Oh. I thought the general people were panning it because what was the point of them supposedly being exclusive if they were going to be DLC on the other console anyway.
It was for both reasons, remember that was a good 2 years ago now.. the DLC came off as a money grab... Namco didn't get called Scamco for no reason... at least they resisted the urge to do the same with Tekken 6... though when 7 comes out... they can point to Blazblue and get away with it
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