Medaka Box [Manga]

[Arabesque]

All of this talk about Medaka Box getting the axe seems a bit premature, especially since we still dont know how well the first volume sell.

[Mizuno]

Actually I don't think TLR ending has much of an effect on Medaka? I mean if it's bad, it's bad. One competition getting cut doesn't change my view on the manga.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

All of this talk about Medaka Box getting the axe seems a bit premature, especially since we still dont know how well the first volume sell.

It would not be the first series to end this way. Just because because we are not aware of selling numbers does not make the manga safer.

Mizuno - while it does not make manga better, it can give it time. And with time, who knows.

[Arturro]

Problem with Medaka Box is not that it is a bad manga. IMHO it's a very good one, it's just not the manga readers expected to read. As I've said before, people like to read/watch stories they already know, but with some minor twists, and a story they expected. Readers of SJ expected shounen story, also oneshoot has given readers hopes for comedy/romance/echhi manga. There is comedy and a little of echhines in Medaka box, but no romance. So far story (or rather characters - there was a little plot so far) is fitting smut manga, not shounen. Medaka Box includes 2 plot devices probably most loathed by readers of shounen mangas - unrequited love of main protagonist and bishoujo bastard competing with main protagonist. Because of it Medaka Box allways will be unpopular among shounen publicity, but it doesn't means it'll be unreaded manga.

[Darknemo2000]

Sometimes I wonder if it was not some weird experiment to see how a reversed harem manga would do in shounen magazine. Apparently it doesnt do so well.

[Magin]

A reverse harem manga is something that belongs in a girl's manga, not Shounen Jump, which is aimed at boys... outside of a few things, reverse harems are something I have a tendency to stay away from

[Arturro]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Sometimes I wonder if it was not some weird experiment to see how a reversed harem manga would do in shounen magazine. Apparently it doesnt do so well.

I think it's an experiment as well, but not SJ experiment. Many authors who just become very popular tends to write "experimental" book/comix/screenplay/etc. In most cases it's a complete failure. IMHO Medaka Box is such story. NisiOisiN is a good author, Medaka Box is proof that he well know how to use plot devices, archetypes, how to modify them, he is paying attention to details. But IMHO he has gone too far with postmodernism.

Originally Posted by Magin

A reverse harem manga is something that belongs in a girl's manga, not Shounen Jump, which is aimed at boys... outside of a few things, reverse harems are something I have a tendency to stay away from

You are (not) alone it's a rarity to found a man interested in reverse harems story.
Medaka Box is neither story for boys, nor for girls. Medaka is too perfect, too Mary Sue type of character for girls to identify with her.

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by Arturro

But IMHO he has gone too far with postmodernism.

I wouldn't call a retarded mean-looking 10 years old "genius" remotely close to the sublime qualities of the best of postmodernism.

Yes, it dragged and wasn't all that good after all after a while, but I didn't complain. I was willing to give it chance to settle down and clean up. The new kid, however, puts me off. Horribly. I complained about Akaboshi very early on with its omgimtoocooltocare (me: well, fuck you too) protagonist in this thread. Guess what? There's one now here in Medaka. Great.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

It would not be the first series to end this way. Just because because we are not aware of selling numbers does not make the manga safer.

Volume sales do factor into the decision of cancelling manga, along with the popularity in the magazine. My point is that with only the ToC (which are based on the decision of the Editor-in-Chief, with the fan votes only playing factor in his choice of the arrangement) one wouldn't be able to make an accurate assumption about the future of the manga. Now if it flops like HnC, then yeah it'll be a no brainer to give it the cut. But then again Sket Dance have stayed for a while in the bottom 5 at the beginning of its life and it still managed to survive and grow popular having ended up in the front several times now.

Originally Posted by Arturro

You are (not) alone it's a rarity to found a man interested in reverse harems story.

I suppose then I am part of the minority of men who enjoyed watching Ouran
Are you sure you aren’t looking too much into it? I honestly don't see anything at this point that would suggest that it is postmodern or revolutionary in its concept. Many mangas of different demographics have used the same method of one chapter cases, as it a staple of the genre.
Also, I find you saying that the readers loathing bi-shonen basterds and unrequited love a bit puzzling. Usually, it is the bi-shonen who manages to be the most popular in character pools and with the fandom of the series. Also, I cant find anyone aside from Akune who would fit the unrequited love role, and even then it is usually played for laughs (not to mention that many manga in WSJ used to use these types of character often, so it really doesn’t look like they loath it that much)
Now, I agree with you that it is not a bad manga, and that NisiOisiN is a very good writer, but I certainly don’t place MB very high as you do. It is still somewhat enjoyable, but nothing groundbreaking so far.

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Yes, it dragged and wasn't all that good after all after a while, but I didn't complain. I was willing to give it chance to settle down and clean up. The new kid, however, puts me off. Horribly. I complained about Akaboshi very early on with its omgimtoocooltocare (me: well, fuck you too) protagonist in this thread. Guess what? There's one now here in Medaka. Great.

I haven’t read much of Akaboshi, but I don’t think that the 10 yo will be staying that long. I predicate that he will be sort of a comic relief who shows up every once in while trying to up the Council(I hope :P), but I don’t think he’ll turn out to be the final member as it would be an overkill having to both him and Medaka on one team (it removes all challenges).

[clarakiss~]

Originally Posted by KLGChaos

Hey, everyone! New to these forums (though some of you know me from mangafox or onemanga).

Honestly, I figured Medaka would still be in the bottom five as the rankings I believe are for the start of the horrible Swim Team arc, but to be dead last was a surprise. :\

If things don't change, it probably won't get much further. The latest chapter looks like it's starting to introduce some plot, but the choice of antagonist was badly done, as I don't think the readers want to see a 10 year old superhuman to match Medaka. Personally, I think it would have been better to have her rival be a normal, pretty girl who despite not being a "genius" is just as kind (without the bad personality) and actually see the potential Zenkichi has and tries to steal him away. That would be a lot better than the current baddie, as in the end, the superhumans are going to completely overshadow the rest of the cast, including the main character.

Of course, considering the manga has been 95% focused on Medaka and her powers, Zen's already been overshadowed quite a bit and it's made the manga quite boring as we see everything solved my Medaka's powers and her lovey-dovey diatribe every week. I think it would be much nicer if they focused on her flaws (her arrogant presence or the fact that while she wants to help everyone, she doesn't actually give a thought to the people's feelings while doing it-- ie stealing everyone's first kiss). Sadly, all these flaws are all glossed over in favor of everything Medaka does being right.

There's so much material there to work with to improve the manga, but it's making wrong decisions left and right and focusing on completely the wrong things.

i totally agree! even so if it's about medaka, more attention should be directed towards zenkichi. and the thing about medaka is... she seems too perfect and completely unbeatable. readers sorta get bore of characters like that fast. a love rival for zenkichi should've been introduced so that medaka would do whatever she can to keep him. but to me, he just seems like her lackey and goes along with her plans unwilling.

[ultramojones]

glad i wasn't the only one who cringed at the sight of that little 10 year old genius boy, i hate those kind of guys, sasuke, hitsuguya, etc

they can die in a fire, be doused with acidic water, then get shocked by pikachu, all up the hooha, twice. yeah, i can't see medaka box doing well/staying alive anymore, im sure im not alone in this, some drastic change needs to happen, like the sex of everyone reverses

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by Arturro

Medaka Box is neither story for boys, nor for girls. Medaka is too perfect, too Mary Sue type of character for girls to identify with her.

Very true. The Medaka Box setting is done in shoujo-esque style (we have a reversed harem so far consisting of three characters and one side character (karate guy) and with a possibility of 10 year old genius brat joining in (because we all know that Medaka will beat him and usually her victims end up falling for her)).

The girl is the main character too, which is also shoujo-like (though Zen was presented as a main character in one-shot and beginning chapters, his role later diminished to being Medaka's lap-dog whose main purpose is to explain why Medaka acts this or that way and praise how awesome she is).

Yet the artwork is very shounen like with some fanservice in. Not to mention that the heroine is too perfect Mary Sue for the girls to find connection with her character.

Its a weird hybrid type of manga that is not popular with majority of shounen audience. But even if it was posted on shoujo magazine I doubt it would be popular either. In fact I cannot imagine in what magazine it could be popular.

[Sol Falling]

Jesus christ, you guys. The prospective new member is obviously the flatchested handcuff girl, not the brat.

Also, what reverse harem? Medaka isn't the main character, and Akune's the only guy after her.

Finally, the complaints about Medaka being 'too perfect' and Zenkichi being her 'lapdog' are just ridiculous. Medaka is perfectly tolerable as a character, she just doesn't have any depth. I actually find you guys' insistence that she just has to be in love with some average guy just because he's known her from childhood and is her lapdog or something more annoying. Love doesn't work out that way: perfect chicks don't fall for you just because you're average.

You guys' impression of Zenkichi being strung along by her are also false. Zenkichi isn't expecting anything, and he's also perfectly satisfied with their current relationship. Don't you think maybe, just maybe, he's helping out 'cause he's got nothing more interesting to do and he actually thinks 'helping people' is a good cause?

Medaka's mediocrity lies in the fact that's it's all fluff. There's little depth in the mechanics of its conflicts, and there's no meaning/deep relatability behind its characters. None of the suggestions that've been made here would actually improve it though ('cept maybe the genderswapping lol, that'd be a mindscrew). Medaka's over-the-top personality quirks are the only thing keeping this manga up right now, it'd be too stupid to muck it up with relationship drama right now.

Actually, I think Medaka Box should just become a fighting manga. That's what most of the characters are good at, after all, and you've already got the superhuman factor. Just get deeper into the mechanics of the actual battles, and extrapolate what actually makes the characters superhuman, and all of a sudden this story's got some meat on its bones and it actually becomes interesting.

[Arturro]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Are you sure you aren’t looking too much into it? I honestly don't see anything at this point that would suggest that it is postmodern or revolutionary in its concept.

I didn't said it's a good postmodernism manga, I said author wants to experiment, and he failed. On the other hand - his writting techniqueas are pretty good.

Also, I find you saying that the readers loathing bi-shonen basterds and unrequited love a bit puzzling. Usually, it is the bi-shonen who manages to be the most popular in character pools and with the fandom of the series. Also, I cant find anyone aside from Akune who would fit the unrequited love role, and even then it is usually played for laughs (not to mention that many manga in WSJ used to use these types of character often, so it really doesn’t look like they loath it that much)

In manga 2 kinds of male protagonists are dominant - a wimpy one and a bishi-bastard. I also prefer a bishi-bastard over wimpy character as a male protagonist, but not as a rival to male protagonist who is an average guy. Just visit any topic in Valkyria Chronicles subforum and read opinions about Faldio - a bishi-bastard type rival of male protagonist in this show.
Zenkichi is in love in Medaka, he said it himself. Medaka doesn't care about him at all (or rather she care about everyone equally). For me it's unrequited love.

[Tyabann]

I find it funny that Medaka's "impending cancellation" has created more discussion in this thread than anything in the actual manga...

[Johnny]

I guess that's the point, there's not much worth talking about in the manga. Well expect maybe for Shiranui...

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Jesus christ, you guys. The prospective new member is obviously the flatchested handcuff girl, not the brat.

Also, what reverse harem? Medaka isn't the main character, and Akune's the only guy after her.

Umm, no. Zen, Akune, karate guy and Kikaijima. Thats 4 already. If the villain brat joins it would be 5 (because so far with the exception of the handcuff girl everyone that Medaka 'defeated' fall for her). Though you may argue about Kikaijima, but she obviously gets very flustered when the talk turns around Medaka and tries bit too hard to prove she is not into yuri.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

I find it funny that Medaka's "impeding cancellation" has created more discussion in this thread than anything in the actual manga...

Guess that proves how 'thrilling' the manga itself is.

[KLGChaos]

Hmm... I've decided to write up a little analysis of what has disappointed me in this manga since it's serialization. I'm going to divide it up into a few different categories-- namely the characters (Medaka and Zenkichi), the plot and the character depth. Warning: It's LONG, which is why it's in spoilers.

Spoiler:

Medaka-- First off, you should know that I've always been a bit biased against Medaka. I've never been a fan of the Mary Sue type character, it's just my own personal opinion, as I've always been someone who likes to be able to connect with the characters I read about, which is something that's very difficult to do with this archetype. I'm also someone who prefers to see characters struggle, fight and earn victories through hardwork as I find characters that can walk all over everyone without breaking a sweat quite boring. That being said, I did find Medaka interesting in the one shot and saw a lot of potential for story. Yes, she was presented as this powerful person who always won and was good at everything she did, however, Zenkichi also pointed out her flaws--such as her inability to understand people (like telling them to just run faster in order to win) due to the fact that she's never lost or suffered like regular people. I saw room for some great character growth as she learned more about regular people and even finally experienced loss, leading to her finally understanding others more.

Sadly, with the serialization, all of this has been swept under the carpet. True, Medaka still has her flaws-- such as her arrogant attitude (calling herself a king crushing a rebellion), her pettiness (over Shiranui being in the forefront of a painting), her gullibility, her flakiness and the fact that she not only doesn't understand other people, she doesn't seem to care much about their feelings either (how would you feel if she stole your first kiss without a second thought). I thought these flaws would be more at the forefront of the story, with Medaka's ridiculous powers used to provide the comedy-- namely causing more problems than they solved, making Zenkichi have to work to fix things. The case is reversed, however, as her powers are used to seriously solve problems all the time, while her flaws are made light of. This gives the impression that Medaka can do no wrong and is always right, even though we the reader know that she isn't. It also makes for a boring story when the main character can do anything without any challenge. It ends up making it feel like there's no room for character growth. Add on the fact that there's no explanation for her supernatural abilities other than "because she's a genius" or "that's just the way she is", it just doesn't work, especially in a manga where all the other characters are fairly normal, even the geniuses.

She's also a shallow and inconsistent character. Between her cute mode and her normally arrogant aura, one second saying she loves everyone and wants to help them and the next telling Zenkichi to exploit people to get to the top, her awesome insight into people and her complete idiocy over some things, it makes for a very frustrating character. As week after week, they shove her power and her "love speeches" down our throat, it ends up feeling forced, almost like an old story I read in school, where a man kept telling everyone that he wasn't kissing someone, he was just smacking his lips in anticipation of a great meal. By the end of the story, he had said it so many times, forced it onto so many people, that everyone believed the opposite of what he said. I'm beginning to feel the same way about Medaka, as we constantly her get onslaught of love-love each week, it ends up driving me to feel the opposite. Instead, to me, with her personality, instead of someone who loves everyone, I end up seeing her as a manipulative and arrogant woman who loves to play with her pawns and is only helping people because it's the only thing that can satisfy her boredom. Another sign of her selfishness is seen during the whole uniform incident. In the first chapter, Medaka cleared out the deliquents in the Kendo hall, even though they weren't really hurting anyone and they were just hanging out, yet she insisted they change. The Swim Team arc, up until she found out the reasons behind Kikaijima's greed, she said she was going to force them to change their ways to suit her (though they weren't doing anything wrong and unlike the Judo captain, weren't even cheating). Yet, when she's approached about changing her uniform to match everyone else, she selfishly said no. True, it's just clothing, but still, the fact that she forces others to act like how she wants them to, but refuses to change herself is a big sign of her selfishness. Yet, it's all glossed over in favor of her being able to do no wrong. And the fact that her cute mode just seems to solve everything and change people's personalities in a heartbeat feels very contrived and unrealistic.

And I have one big question about her. If she's as much of a genius as they say with powers that cause masters to quit their jobs and the ability to break solid metal baseball bats (do these even exist?) and defy the laws of physics by standing on a waterwing, why is she a high school student? By all rights, she should be ruling the world by now. It makes very little sense.

Zenkichi-- This is where the manga really goes wrong. Zenkichi is supposed to be the main character, but in the end, the manga is really about Medaka while Zenkichi feels more like just a side character narrating her story. During the One Shot, he was cool. He was presented as the foil for Medaka-- the strong, hardworking type who could rival her. However, he's much, much weaker in the serialization. True, he's still stronger than any other normal out there, but against the geniuses, he's a complete weakling. One of the sticking points of the manga with me is during the fight with Akune. As Medaka spews out the speech about everyone being equal and how hard you work being all that matters, Zenkichi gets his butt kicked. The only lesson I learned from that match is that hard work might let you get lucky against geniuses once in a while, but 9 times out of 10, the genius will kick your ass (as Akune showed by getting 9 points to Zen's 1). It came off as not only lame, but the whole match was a paradox of Medaka's speech, yet no one seemed to realize it, because they were so focused on the lucky shot that Zen got in, primarily, I'm convinced, because of Akune's overconfidence.

Another problem with Zen, as many other feels, is that he really is a lapdog for Medaka. Between him doing whatever she says (even though he protests) and saying that she's always right, it really does feel that way. He even called himself her attack dog. He follows her for the same reason Akune does, because he's in love with her, and Akune is definitely a lap dog (heck, after Medaka manipulates him into doing the whole love letter thing her way, she actually pets him on the head like a dog while doing the cute mode, if I remember correctly). He just sits by idly while more and more geniuses are brought on board and put in higher positions than him, as he, the only regular guy on the council is completely overlooked, despite his continued service. He showed signs a few chapter ago of finally noticing it, but nothing happened since then. Instead, he's remained her loyal little underling.

If there's one thing I've learned, is that when the main male protagonist of a shounen manga is presented as weak (compared to the other main cast) and is overshadowed by them, it's never good for the manga. A similar situation is the character of Kou in Zero In. People call him the damsel in distress, because that's basically all he is. As a protagonist, even a support type, he's pretty much worthless and it hurts the manga. If it wasn't for the fact that it has much deeper characters than Medaka Box and some great story in it (such as the Kina arc), it probably wouldn't be doing much better.

Plot-- So far, there is none. It's all been random stories and a few things that lead to some people joining the student council. However, both arcs that brought new members on board have been complete failures. Not only did we get a bunch of crap spewed from Medaka's mouth both times (tired and cliche speeches about hard work and love, again), but the events themselves fell very flat, both the time we watched Zenkichi get beat pretty badly by Akune as Medaka tried to tell the Judo captain that everyone is equal (though the fight that was going on obviously showed what she said was a load of garbage, as I mentioned previously) and the time that Medaka forced her Yuri kiss onto Kikaijima, magically transforming her into one of her followers. This new arc, with Onigase and the kid, looks like it make be the beginning of some real plot, however, the choice of antagonist is bad, as many have said. After all, who wants to see some 10 year genius battle it out with another genius? It means that later on, the story will be filled with nothing but geniuses, while Zenkichi and the others will be overshadowed more and more. Plus, the council itself, sucks. They may go around solving problems, but they have to be the worst council in history. During the team games, they let Medaka do all the work and when they did go to work together, the ended up fighting each other instead. For a group that's supposed to be a role model for other students, they do a horrible job at it.

Character Depth-- This here is the worst part of the manga. All the characters presented so far are one dimensional cardboard cutouts. We've got the overpowered girl who can do no wrong; we have the faithful follower who's loyal, but gets nothing for it; we have the perfect narcissistic Bishounen (who the reader's REALLY hate); the introverted greedy girl (who sadly, has more depth than everyone, including the main character); the crazy girl (Shiranui) and now the ultra-violent girl. None of these characters have any personality outside what's been shown in small snippets and almost as soon as they appear, they're pushed aside for someone new. Akune comes on board and is soon hardly seen, except to occasionally exchange insults with Zen. Kikaijima comes on, we get one chapter of development and then she's pushed aside for Onigase. Onigase comes on and then we get the 10 year old. Too many characters are introduced at once and none of them are given any depth or personality. It's impossible to connect or relate to them in any way and they all feel disposable. Plus, as I mentioned above, there's no comraderie between the main characters, especially the council members. Not only is there no connection between the reader and them, there's no connection between the characters themselves. Just look at the council in Yankee-kun-- not only does it have characters with personality that aren't just stereotypes, but the character interact and connect with each other throughout the story, even in the beginning chapters. We see heart to heart talks between the characters, we see them sticking up for each other and showing friendship. Medaka Box's characters have none of that and I couldn't ever picture Zen having a conversation with Medaka like Shinagawa does with Adachi. There's just no depth there at all.

Anyway, sorry for my long-winded post, but after reading many of the posts on this board, I wanted to consolidate my feelings about the manga. I had high hopes for it when it started, but slowly watched them get crushed under the presence of Medaka's powers and a lack of anything going on in the manga. I may not agree with Sol Falling on much of what he said, but he was right when he said the manga is nothing but fluff.

[Arturro]

@KLGChaos

I agree with most you've said. Mostly I disagree with your evaluation of Kou from Zero In He is psychically weaker than other characters, but hardly you could call him weakling. But this should be discussed in another topic.

[OverMaster]

Oddly, I think Medaka would have worked better as an anime original, then translated to manga form. Or maybe even a light novel. Comparisons to Haruhi have been unavoidable so far anyway, so they should have taken advantage of it and market it as an alternative to Haruhi (especially on the wake of the Endless Eight fiasco).

What I mean is, the story seems better suited to the demographics of the anime-watching 'hardcore' otaku than the younger shounen crowd.