Macross Delta - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[Maverick05]

Personally....I am still hoping that Freyja actually pops a birdman, and decide that it's Judgement Day on Windy.

Yet I have a feeling we are getting a very rushed ending.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Maverick05

Personally....I am still hoping that Freyja actually pops a birdman, and decide that it's Judgement Day on Windy.

Freyja? I do hope you mean Mikumo? Because Freyja would never do such a thing to her own people. On the other hand Mikumo has no stakes with the people of Windermere. I still have no idea what Roid is thinking, does he really believe he can control a Starsinger? It reminds me of BvS where Luthor stupidly think he can create an invincible monster and yet offers no proof he had any means of controlling it.

[charles883]

Most likely, Mikumo will give all her powers to Frejya to turn Frejya as New Star singer and most likely save all Windermere crystallization process and return them to normal lifespan(Means return to human lifespan) at cost of their most of rune power. I LOVE to see how Windermere especially Bogue , Heinz and other Aerial Knight react on their 'traitor' save their entire species and race and become their deity. I think its fate worse than death for them as they have to live with their knowledge on they being saved by so-called traitor who become their next deity and almost kill their savior before hand.

It also shows that Frejya become Mikumo successor as like master give mantle to their stundent

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by charles883

Most likely, Mikumo will give all her powers to Frejya to turn Frejya as New Star singer and most likely save all Windermere crystallization process and return them to normal lifespan(Means return to human lifespan) at cost of their most of rune power. I LOVE to see how Windermere especially Bogue , Heinz and other Aerial Knight react on their 'traitor' save their entire species and race and become their deity. I think its fate worse than death for them as they have to live with their knowledge on they being saved by so-called traitor who become their next deity and almost kill their savior before hand.

After this episode, I'd probably love this.

Vallen is right that Freyja is far too kind to intentionally obliterate her own people. However, I like to imagine her having a few choice words for whoever's left of Windermere's leadership, going by your scenario here, charles883.

"I want you to remember Heinz, in all the years to come, in your most private moments, I want you to remember my song in your rune. I want you to remember... the one girl that beat you." - Freyja Wion, in Episode 26.

(yeah, probably won't happen, but a man can dream )

[foxbox360]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

After this episode, I'd probably love this.

Vallen is right that Freyja is far too kind to intentionally obliterate her own people. However, I like to imagine her having a few choice words for whoever's left of Windermere's leadership, going by your scenario here, charles883.

"I want you to remember Heinz, in all the years to come, in your most private moments, I want you to remember my song in your rune. I want you to remember... the one girl that beat you." - Freyja Wion, in Episode 26.

(yeah, probably won't happen, but a man can dream )

Dig Your shout out to Dark Knight return.

[charles883]

More like

"I want you to remember Heinz and Aerial Knight, in all the years to come, in your most private moments, I want you to remember my song in your rune. I want you to remember... the one girl you condemned as traitor to our people and try to execute, had JUST SAVE OUR RACE from complete annilation ."

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by charles883

Most likely, Mikumo will give all her powers to Frejya to turn Frejya as New Star singer

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that. Mikumo has those powers because it's part of her genetic makeup.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that. Mikumo has those powers because it's part of her genetic makeup.

I don't know; I wouldn't dismiss possibilities right now because Delta has proven it cares very little about logic in that area.

This episode showcased Freyja, Kaname, Makina, and Reina all singing without Mikumo and gaining a reaction from the ruins like on Voldor and Alfheim. So it could be possible for someone else to gain her powers if she shared them (via blood or magic).

Of course, I don't like the idea of Freyja obtaining her power or becoming a bird man. For one, bird man is something belonging to Shin in Zero, not Sara; and so Hayate is more suited for the role. Second, incorporating one more dynamic change in this series where so many questions are unanswered and/or removed altogether (like the corrupt NUNS case) could add fuel to the fire of fans.

Seriously, the Japanese Twitter blew up the second this episode aired, with speculations and oh good god, complaints about plot holes and unanswered plot points from previous episodes (one of the people on here said it too: His father's plane piece from last episode is never resolved despite a cliffhanger ending last week). It's a madhouse during episode airs on Twitter and while it's full of shippers (especially HayaFre fan girls), it's also full of people who don't personally care about shipping where the plot is concerned. In fact, one person on Twitter doesn't even care for the plot anymore, she only wants her ship to sail so she can move on... And I believe if you have people giving up on the show this far in because it's so confusing and/or bad, your series is not good.

I know Kawamori believed he'd never top Frontier for popularity or otherwise, and of course, Logos for Aquarion is a failure; but I liked EVOL, honestly; until it's ending. Ever since Logos, my faith in Kawamori has dropped on if he knows how to create a good story anymore; hell I don't care if he'll repeat prior character tropes or plot devices, as long as it all ties into a good story; and Delta (aside from how HayaFre is built and various other characters developed) is not a good story. We're 2 episodes from the finale and there is still so many plot devices introduced early on which are unanswered and aside from shipping (because I believe it'll be answered by the final episode or it isn't a Macross, even if Frontier is ambiguous), I'm pissed because it's like those first 13 episodes are Delta on its own and these last 13 episodes are slapped together and rushed (especially editing-wise) like someone remembered last second there will be no movie anymore and it's a TV series... and, it's bad.

Delta has so much potential so I do, like others, hope a movie adaptation will be coming. A movie of everything beyond episode 13 because those episodes are fine.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

I don't know; I wouldn't dismiss possibilities right now because Delta has proven it cares very little about logic in that area.

This episode showcased Freyja, Kaname, Makina, and Reina all singing without Mikumo and gaining a reaction from the ruins like on Voldor and Alfheim. So it could be possible for someone else to gain her powers if she shared them (via blood or magic).

Mikumo said her receptors are genetically ingrained into her cells. It's fundamentally different from gaining receptor via fold bacteria like Kaname and the others. It's also different from Freyja who has her fold receptor in her rune. In the case of Mikumo, her cells themselves are receptors. That basically makes her whole body a huge fold receptor.

I know Delta's writing has gone to shit at this point, so I'm not sure what to expect anymore. Still, I hope they won't forget about this.

[ReddyRedWolf]

There have been Human Fold Receptors before like Basara, Sara Nome and Mao Nome. Hybrids also with Emilia Jenius and Mylene Jenius. However tapping into zero time fold lag frequency is only possible with Fold Quartz. Fold Bacteria have Fold Quartz themselves.

I kinda like the theory that Wndermereans are intended to be batteries for the Protoculture system. This is pretty much in line with Terrans can be batteries for the Bird Human and Protodevlin.

Yeah Roid is messing with stuff that will kill his people.

[charles883]

Did you Know that Aquarion Logos is not directed by Kawamori at all. Hell, he not even in Logos production team

I think Mikumo give her power to Frejya is I only think of saving Frejya from dying

[HirouKeimou]

Even more afraid to rate this episode now that it's subbed so I'll wait till next week...

So basically, because our lovely trio are not NUNS or military, the trial is staged for their execution, the nice little treaty doesn't apply. And god, again, if Bogue does not shut up (at least hold him in contempt for disrupting a conversation Heinz is having, damn it).

Now that it's subbed, bringing up Messar is not too odd; however, it's odd that Keith says Hayate has no desire to kill when episode 18 and 22 (one of which he is not present for) showcased he does while under Var.

And oh my god, it is an orchestra piece of Ichido Dakeno Koi nara and now I hope it's on the 2nd OST! I wondered why it sounded so familiar until someone on here pointed it out. And on that note: Absolute Five is growing on me a little too much (15 days till the album release, damn it)...

Then, Berger explains they tuned the VF-22 to fly... granted, this is something more than likely us non-Japanese oriented people didn't understand in the raw; however, I don't understand the logic of full loading it. And, Berger is withdrawing from Windermere? This is... I guess he's not a villain? Okay, a new unanswered question of what is the point of Berger now? And, a little bit more on who Wright is to Arad: a Captain/Commander. During the first time watching the episode without subs, I'd been wondering if I heard wrong on the honorific Arad gives Wright; I'm not.

I... don't even wish to begin on Roid. However, it's confirmed he did "inspect" her... And god does he love repeating the phrase...

On Mikumo, it's more than confirmed she is a rebuild of the original Star Singer. However, I'm more concerned with this coming out all at the last minute and is very conflicting. For one, who the hell is Lady M and how did she obtain this "object" which she used to revive Mikumo? This is becoming one hell of a conspiracy war. However, Roid insisting Walküre is a cover for Mikumo is pointless because episode 21 proves Walküre formed prior to Mikumo even being on the playing field. Then again, he could be grasping at air here.

And after this episode's ending for Freyja, I do question how she "ages" slower than Heinz considering how much she's sang over the course of the series, and Bogue who abuses his rune a lot, especially in the last 2 episodes, and Keith who also accesses his runes during battle; so I'm again confused at how aging for a Windermere plays out... People say stimulation of a rune drains the battery; however, this episode and every prior episode, has proven it's not so much a "stimulation" of the rune as it is normal things like stress (especially because Cassim flew harder than before, Heinz overdid his singing, and Freyja having a panic attack from Hayate choosing to jump first). That's my opinion based on all I've seen of this "aging process" Windermere goes through.

[PhoenixRising]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

And after this episode's ending for Freyja, I do question how she "ages" slower than Heinz considering how much she's sang over the course of the series, and Bogue who abuses his rune a lot, especially in the last 2 episodes, and Keith who also accesses his runes during battle; so I'm again confused at how aging for a Windermere plays out... People say stimulation of a rune drains the battery; however, this episode and every prior episode, has proven it's not so much a "stimulation" of the rune as it is normal things like stress (especially because Cassim flew harder than before, Heinz overdid his singing, and Freyja having a panic attack from Hayate choosing to jump first). That's my opinion based on all I've seen of this "aging process" Windermere goes through.

This is just a theory, but I think that Mikumo was unknowingly shielding Freyja with her Star Singer abilities to protect her from the calcification and being drained. Which makes sense considering that prior to Mikumo's capture, Freyja wasn't showing any symptoms of calcification at all; despite always being close to the ruins (since she was always performing with Mikumo.) And yet, the one time Walkure performs without Mikumo, she starts calcifying, because now that Mikumo has been captured, she isn't close enough or in the position to protect her.

I also think its likely that Mikumo will give up or use her abilities to save Freyja.

[charles883]

And better yet turn Frejya into New star singer which a lot of help ended the war as Windermere worship Star singer

[HirouKeimou]

@PhoenixRising: Nice theory; however, it doesn't explain how Cassim is really the only Aerial Knight who died from overusing his rune while Keith and Bogue (who abuse theirs in battle) are perfectly okay. It's... all so confusing. I'd like to hope it's because of Mikumo for Freyja; however, like I said, last dozen episodes more of prove it's a realistic issue, wherein extreme stress could lead to bodily issues and amplification or overuse of the runes multiplies its affect on the users. Who knows at this point? The Windermere lifespan (outside of the physical abilities and age issue) has not really been explained in the anime nor use of the runes... it's all up for debate because if it's in side material, those of us who can't read it will never know...

EDIT: I'm not dismissing your theory because it's still a possibility; I wanted to clarify that.

[PhoenixRising]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

@PhoenixRising: Nice theory; however, it doesn't explain how Cassim is really the only Aerial Knight who died from overusing his rune while Keith and Bogue (who abuse theirs in battle) are perfectly okay. It's... all so confusing. I'd like to hope it's because of Mikumo for Freyja; however, like I said, last dozen episodes more of prove it's a realistic issue, wherein extreme stress could lead to bodily issues and amplification or overuse of the runes multiplies its affect on the users. Who knows at this point? The Windermere lifespan (outside of the physical abilities and age issue) has not really been explained in the anime nor use of the runes... it's all up for debate because if it's in side material, those of us who can't read it will never know...
EDIT: I'm not dismissing your theory because it's still a possibility; I wanted to clarify that.

EDIT: That's okay, like I said its a theory, I just like the idea of Mikumo shielding Freyja. (Though I do hope its true for Freyja's sake too.)

But, yeah I do agree, I do think emotions as well as high-stressed situations probably does burn them out faster e.g. concern, anger,

With Cassim, I think he was heavily stressed and pushing himself too much during his last battle, as he burned out his life to defeat the enemy. The stress was probably due to him assuming that he might die in battle too, as he had that impending sense of doom. He was also heavily concerned about his kid and what he'll leave to him when he dies. He was also super pumped up in battle, so I think that all of those things led to him burning up faster.

I also think that Cassim was the 2nd oldest of the group too (not too sure).

With Keith, I don't think he stresses out that much in battle or air battles in general, because he enjoys the thrill of flying. So his rate is probably not as fast.

EDIT: Another thing I'm wondering about is that thing that appeared on top of the Protoculture ship too.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising

Yeah I agree, I think emotions as well as high-stressed situations probably does burn them out faster e.g. concern, anger.

I believed in this theory more because of this episode; wherein Heinz is saying he never once felt like Freyja does while singing, and prior episodes wherein Heinz is crystallizing is because he is singing and obviously doesn't like to (Freyja downright points this out in this episode by calling him "colorless" and "empty"). If you don't love what you do, likelihood is, you'll be stressed doing it. However, Freyja has personal issues: like prior episodes focusing on her songs forcing Var onto Hayate or labeled as a traitor or concern over the future of her friends. This episode amplifies all those warning signs of stress being a factor: Freyja is concerned because Hayate is willing to die first, Mikumo is MIA, and Makina is on her deathbed. It's a lot of stress in one episode and it's becoming obvious it's stress which speeds up aging for them, and not stimulation of the rune itself.

[Kazu-kun]

Maybe it's not so much stress as it is conflicting feelings. All three of them, Heinz, Kassim and Freyja have conflicting feelings about what they're doing. That's probably what's killing them.

In order to ride the wind and live to tell the tale, you've gotta have no doubt in your heart.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Maybe it's not so much stress as it is conflicting feelings. All three of them, Heinz, Kassim and Freyja have conflicting feelings about what they're doing. That's probably what's killing them.

In order to ride the wind and live to tell the tale, you've gotta have no doubt in your heart.

I don't know.

Cassim is aware he's going to die (he foreshadowed it in episode 18) so his crystallization is a little more about his general stress in the heat of battle because he's pushing his body far beyond its normal limits.

Heinz is... god, I don't even know where I'd place him. In this episode, I don't even believe he has doubts about his role because he does not even question convictions or reasons for Chaos invading Windermere; all he does is go along with executing them. And, him calling Freyja into his presence so he could talk to her, he does very little talking in general. The little doubt he does have is shown in how Freyja is moved by singing and he is not; and it's not a long scene, either.

Now, in this episode, Freyja is less on the Var syndrome of prior episodes and is more focused on those around her dying (like Hayate or Makina) and concern over Mikumo (who is MIA in their eyes). Of course, she is concerned about her people, too; because Heinz is continuing this war; however, it's also obvious she's not allowing it to hold her down again. Freyja, right now, is very similar to Sheryl who sang regardless of if it'd do anything at all for those around her and/or help at all because she believed her songs could give hope to others and Freyja is holding onto this belief herself.

[Kazu-kun]

Kassim started to crystallize in episode 18. In that episode he had an argument with Bogue over his doubts on the war. Right after that he met Freyja and Hayate, which increased his doubts even more. He goes to the battle field with all those conflicting feelings, and is the only one in his team that started to crystallize. He doesn't even ride the wind in that episode, yet he crystallizes anyway.

It's all about conflicting feelings. After re-watching that scene I'm pretty sure now.