(L+CR) Space Battleship Yamato 2199 (movie & TV)

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I don't know. From what I saw, it looked like the entire Core Ship started to lift out of its cradle before being overtaken by the explosions and the pink wave motion energy that blocks our view. After that is anyone's guess. It might be a matter of interpretation, and leaving just enough wiggle room in the visuals to justify whatever they decide to do with Dessler. If he's dead, then they have enough to show that. If he lives, they can extrapolate more of that lifting into another camera angle and how his ship blows clear, though extremely damaged (a different way to pull off what they showed us in Yamato 2 concuring his escape).

Agreed.
While I think August has a point that it does look like the core ship could conceivably have been destroyed in the explosion. It is too quick and vague to be concrete.
Thus methinks this was done intentionally to allow for Dessler to return should they decide to bring him and his ship back in a sequel.
Very clever on the part of the director and writers of this series, again making this series all the more fun to watch and speculate about.

[calubin_175]

Do you think there will be any potential for a 5.1ch release in the future?

I am 2 discs away from collecting all the theatrical limited editions and have even ordered the Blu ray storage box as well.

The only reason they would release a new box set in the future would be for 5.1ch audio.

[August138]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I don't know. From what I saw, it looked like the entire Core Ship started to lift out of its cradle before being overtaken by the explosions and the pink wave motion energy that blocks our view.

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

While I think August has a point that it does look like the core ship could conceivably have been destroyed in the explosion. It is too quick and vague to be concrete.

That's not the case in this instance; I checked and double-checked, and checked again and again — frame-by-frame. It's hard to tell watching it in real time, but fame-by-frame is a different story (how are you two dissecting this sequence? I'm viewing the Blu-ray on a 50" monitor). Now, I have no axe to grind or adgenda to support — the Core Ship begins to bulge beneath the Command Bridge and the disappears into the fireball (when plates bulge on a spaceship in anime, it usually means its going to go "boom"). This isn't an interpretation; it's what happens, on-screen. In the 1974 original, the ship goes up and we see Dessler enveloped in flames and the ship explodes. Apparently, the explosion (of WME) may have transported him through the void by some means until the Gatlantis picks him up and brings him back to life. I assume they will bring him back the same way — only time will tell. But, as for the Core Ship in Y2199 warping out, no.

With all due respect, we can try to "fill in the blanks" (which there aren't any in this case; although anything can happen), and that's fine and dandy for fan discussion and debate, but the reality is, it just blows up real good.

That doesn't mean that we can't speculate, either.

(I'm hoping that Lord Abelt Desler is now floating around waiting for Emperor Zwordar to pick him up...)

[Ithekro]

I'm watching on a smaller computer monitor, but zoomed in. I tend to watch the fins of the Core Ship verse the position of the forward hull just as it is exploding. To me at least, the fins around the stern of the Core Ship and the bridge seem to be moving vertically relative to the forward hull of the rest of the ship as the explosion happens. I've not looked for bulging, though the Dessler Cannon in front of it is definately spewing pink flames both from the end and the entire length of the barrel. There is an explosion in the stern around the Core Ship, though this seems to be under and around that part of the ship rather than the Core ship exploding. Likely the other engines exploding just before the final explosion. At this point it appears that the Core Ship starts to lift off, the fins remaining the same position relative to each other as the bridge and attached Core Ship starts to noticably rise vertically over the surrounding battleship. The Dessler Cannon starts up bulge as it explodes obscuring the rest of the ship in flames and pink wave motion energy. The last thing I notice as the sides of the battleship explode is the fins on top of the bridge and the fins on back of the Core Ship are still the same distance from each other but now at the top of the frame while the rest of the ship explodes.

I don't think it warped away, but it might have been blown clear of the rest of the exploding ship. Not unharmed mind you. The bottom of the Core Ship would probably have most of it missing from that explosion. Massive hull breaches. But still at least partly intact...drifting in subspace....where it ends up? Blasted out some other gate? Lost in subspace? Who knows.

This would allow enough of the ship to be left intact to convert into the second series flagship that is probably Dessler's most iconic ship. Have a new hull attached on the bottom with some defensive weaponry. A new engine section on the back, and a new, probably less powerful Dessler Cannon installed on the front with a pair of SMITE devices. Done. And logical. Dessler can even still be found floating in space nearby if one so desires.

[macdawson]

Come on people, if you look reeeeeeeeeally close into the main bridge window, you can see how Desler escaped. The TARDIS is clearly seen phasing out. It took electron microscope level of zooming and enhancement but it's there. XD

All kidding aside, wether the ship was destroyed or not, wether only the bridge breaks free or not... we all know Desler will be back. Yamato wouldn't be Yamato without the guy around.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by August138

That's not the case in this instance; I checked and double-checked, and checked again and again — frame-by-frame. It's hard to tell watching it in real time, but fame-by-frame is a different story (how are you two dissecting this sequence? I'm viewing the Blu-ray on a 50" monitor). Now, I have no axe to grind or adgenda to support — the Core Ship begins to bulge beneath the Command Bridge and the disappears into the fireball (when plates bulge on a spaceship in anime, it usually means its going to go "boom"). This isn't an interpretation; it's what happens, on-screen. In the 1974 original, the ship goes up and we see Dessler enveloped in flames and the ship explodes. Apparently, the explosion (of WME) may have transported him through the void by some means until the Gatlantis picks him up and brings him back to life. I assume they will bring him back the same way — only time will tell. But, as for the Core Ship in Y2199 warping out, no.

With all due respect, we can try to "fill in the blanks" (which there aren't any in this case; although anything can happen), and that's fine and dandy for fan discussion and debate, but the reality is, it just blows up real good.

That doesn't mean that we can't speculate, either.

(I'm hoping that Lord Abelt Desler is now floating around waiting for Emperor Zwordar to pick him up...)

You missed my point.
It doesn't matter if it appears to explode.
The sequence is so fast as to allow for it to survive (albeit badly damaged) should they choose to make a sequel.

[August138]

What Luis said...

And the Core Ship doesn't "appear" to explode. My contention is that it does indeed explode — it's hard to get around the physics of what is occuring in the shot. Again, only Ithekro answered how he was watching this (small monitor, but didn't answer if he was using frame-by-frame), while Gundamfan0083 didn't answer either question...

And you missed my point, Gundamfan0083, the original 1974 version has Leader Dessler's command ship explode — and Dessler somehow survives (a result of the Wave Motion Energy?) to fight another day (revived by Gatlantis medical science). So, why wouldn't the same be valid this time around? Why do we need to insist that his ship somehow escapes when there is absolutely no visual evidence to support this theory. Nor has any been presented. I will concede to hard evidence.

It's amazing that several people can see the very same thing and see only what they want to. But no matter... Let's just agree to disagree and move along. Like adults. Eventually, when Lord Desler returns in a future YAMATO: 2199 production, we'll all have the definitive answer. At the end of the day, that's all that matters, right?

And please, let's keep this civil — I think we can disagree and not break into a flame war that will get us all into trouble, no?

[Ithekro]

Slow motion and pausing the answer the rest of the question.

[August138]

Thanks, Ithekro. To paraphrase JAWS, "You might need a bigger monitor."

*ducks*

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by August138

What Luis said...

And the Core Ship doesn't "appear" to explode. My contention is that it does indeed explode — it's hard to get around the physics of what is occuring in the shot. Again, only Ithekro answered how he was watching this (small monitor, but didn't answer if he was using frame-by-frame), while Gundamfan0083 didn't answer either question...

And you missed my point, Gundamfan0083, the original 1974 version has Leader Dessler's command ship explode — and Dessler somehow survives (a result of the Wave Motion Energy?) to fight another day (revived by Gatlantis medical science). So, why wouldn't the same be valid this time around? Why do we need to insist that his ship somehow escapes when there is absolutely no visual evidence to support this theory. Nor has any been presented. I will concede to hard evidence.

It's amazing that several people can see the very same thing and see only what they want to. But no matter... Let's just agree to disagree and move along. Like adults. Eventually, when Lord Desler returns in a future YAMATO: 2199 production, we'll all have the definitive answer. At the end of the day, that's all that matters, right?

And please, let's keep this civil — I think we can disagree and not break into a flame war that will get us all into trouble, no?

Yes I own the original and I watched my BD copy via my blue-ray player on my computer connected to my 42 inch LED TV. I saw it just fine.

I also own the original anime DVDs (all of the series from Voyager Ent) and am very familiar with the scene where Desler is floating in space presumably dead and Gatlantis/White Comet Empire revives him.
Though I wonder how they're going to revive Talan?
No matter they've already left General Hiss alive and since Desler shot him in the original I'm sure we'll see other changes.

I wasn't arguing with you August I was saying that it doesn't matter if the ship blew up or not.

This is Yamato for cripes sake, how many characters die only to return in a later series? Even Okita died and then made a comeback.

[macdawson]

As for the Core Ship, what i see, playing frame by frame, is a lot of pink energy breaking the Weapon's Platform appart, then the explosion starts and, as it reaches the middle of the Weapons Platform, from beneath the Core Ship bridge, we do see the nose of it rising up from the expanding gases. What i see as the Core Ship moves as one solid block, no sign of breaking up. Then the expanding explosion rises and blocks it from view. Keep in mind that the tip of the Core Ship is located way back, about halfway the full length of the Weapons Platform.

But wether it explodes or not or who has the bigger TV screen and best BR Player is besides the main point. After all the d**k measuring is done, fact is in the original, Desler's ship was hit by its own shot and blew up for everyone to see. We saw Desler's face being engulfed by flames. And he came back. So here, whatever happened to the Core Ship, it leaves a lot more room for his comeback than in the original where we were shown him supposedly burning to a crisp.

As for how they'll bring back Talan...they don't have to. That's the whole point of having two of them, right? Velte (season one design Talan) probably died and Ghader (rest of the saga design Talan) will be the one by Desler's side. What i'm curious is HOW. Strangely enough, during 2199, Velte was the one that seemed to be closer to Dietz but was the one that ended up following Desler. Ghader, which seemed more loyal to Desler, ended up on Garmillas and clearly opposed to Desler. So what will happen for Ghader to end up on Desler's side? Doubt they'll go with something as trivial as the will to avenge his brother, especially if that means siding with the guy that not only lead him to his death but tried to kill everyone on Baleras, including himself.

I guess this and a lot more might be what the upcoming movie will, in the very least, begin to explain.

[August138]

Originally Posted by macdawson

As for the Core Ship, what i see, playing frame by frame, is a lot of pink energy breaking the Weapon's Platform appart, then the explosion starts and, as it reaches the middle of the Weapons Platform, from beneath the Core Ship bridge, we do see the nose of it rising up from the expanding gases...

Look again, and you'll see the section under the Command Bridge bulging up — just like how some of the Zentradi ships reacted to internal explosions on MACROSS...

Originally Posted by macdawson

But wether it explodes or not or who has the bigger TV screen and best BR Player is besides the main point.

Size matters. But seriously, it does; in a visual medium the size of the image is directly proportial to the amount of detail one can observe — aye, and there's the — plus YAMATO: 2199 was made for theatrical screenings, so even a 50" monitor is small by comparison.

Originally Posted by macdawson

After all the d**k measuring is done...

Keeping it classy, eh Luis?

Originally Posted by macdawson

[The] fact is in the original, Desler's ship was hit by its own shot and blew up for everyone to see. We saw Desler's face being engulfed by flames. And he came back. So here, whatever happened to the Core Ship, it leaves a lot more room for his comeback than in the original where we were shown him supposedly burning to a crisp.

Right. Unless you see no room, which is my point. They played this out the same as the original; with the firing of the Desler Cannon being Your Lordship's undoing. His Coreship did not get away — it already had at Baleras II, and the dialogue was there to support it ("Jump, now!"). And, you see a warp trail in the wide shot as it explodes with Yuki looking on. It would be extremely lazy writing to use that gimmick again. Very lazy. I think that Izubuchi and the writing team would come up with something far more clever, or just elaborate on what happened in the originals — as has been my contention all along.

Originally Posted by macdawson

As for how they'll bring back Talan...they don't have to. That's the whole point of having two of them, right?

Quite right! But, far more interesting than anything else discussed on this page, how is Desler going to reconcile with the other Talan, not to mention the new Garmillas regime, headed up — presumably — by Admiral Dietz. Or is Desler going to rally his loyalists around him? Before Desler rallied all the surviving Garmillas peoples, but now he's an "enemy of the state." And speaking of loyalists and exploding ships, we do not see Goer's Flagship vaporize definitively...

Originally Posted by macdawson

I guess this and a lot more might be what the upcoming movie will, in the very least, begin to explain.

Precisely.

[Ithekro]

I wonder if it is a mix of perception, expectation, and experiance on this matter.

I didn't watch a lot of Robotech (I have the Macross part of the series on DVD) even though I'm fairly sure I watch it growing up. I'm not sure what part even though I found an old VHS tape that has I think the second or third episode of the Southern Cross story on it. So I don't in general recall how Zentradi ships exploded save for a few memories of the Macross Cannon blowing up a ship I think they used in the opening credits all the time.

My perception and expectation with Yamato and how they have doing thing for 2199 is that they'll come up with a more logical solution to the problem of Dessler's survival should they do a story with him returning from seeming death (again). I don't think they will resort to the "he warped away" a second time.

My thought turned to figuring out a reasonable plot logic for Dessler to have a ship that can seperate from the larger warship, when that wasn't the orignal design. They could have just had the orignal design, which the Core Ship is based on, attach to the City after leaving Gamilas. Then survive by warp out, to have him come back like he does to attack Yamato. There would be no need to have the larger ship at all. So logically, one would make it a plot point to have such a ship. The most logical thing I can think of is using that as his way of surviving his "death" by Dessler Cannon. Since the Core Ship can detach from the Battleship, it makes for a handy way to have him survive and keep the old ship design to be converted into his Second Series ship. While also have it seem like he died because the larger ship exploded.

I don't think he warps away. Blown clear in the remains of the Core Ship is the more logical solution. But still the wreck of the Core Ship would be floating in space (somewhere) once it drifts out of another Subspace Gate. Waiting to be picked up.

So I see things differently, have a different expectation, and experiance to draw upon to make that conclusion based on what I can see in that scene.

Maybe later this month or next month I'll go over to a friends house with a larger TV and give it the thrice over frame by frame, as I'm certain one of them will want to be just a sure if Dessler is dead or not.

[macdawson]

Originally Posted by August138

Keeping it classy, eh Luis?

What do you mean? D**k measuring is an art... Case in point...

[GundamFan0083]

Oh...for the love of....

Okay, I'll post the damn screenshots.

Screen shot one: ship explodes all around core ship but does not damage bridge.



Screen shot two: Ship is exploding but bridge section is intact.



Screen shot three: Core ship bridge gets blown off the top of the craft intact.



So yes, Desler and the bridge crew could have survived since it was already established that some Gamilas ships have detachable bridges for escape purposes (Dommels' super-dreadnaught), thus it stands to reason that Desler's craft would have such a system. It may even be automated.

Now, can we lay this to rest?

[Ithekro]

Fandom at its norm...arguing details while enjoying every minute of it.

[macdawson]

Could those screencaps be more pixelated?! XDDD Next move, August posts true HD crystal clear screen caps with super zoom. Come on August, you know you want to! XDDD If you don't, i will. Let the madness continue. XD

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by macdawson

Could those screencaps be more pixelated?! XDDD Next move, August posts true HD crystal clear screen caps with super zoom. Come on August, you know you want to! XDDD If you don't, i will. Let the madness continue. XD

If I wanted them to fit on Photobucket (meaning upload within a reasonable time) then I had to reduce the jpeg quality, but it gets the point across nicely and with the time listed you can go through the video and see what I'm talking about.
That's not to say the bridge section does, or does not survive, but what it does do is create a nice, and plausible out for the writers/director to use should Desler return in a sequel.

In this way if they want Desler to stay dead, he does, if they chose to revive him, they can.
It's a clever way of providing a means to satisfy the fanbase.

[pinoy78]

Megahouse Yuria...decent...but not as awesome as Akira.

http://youtu.be/26JiZ_MoaSs

[Ithekro]

Melda will be awesome from what I understand.