Ore no Imouto - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by DJ Trouble

First, the original post I quoted said "at the meeting." Her behavior "at the meeting" was not that of a spoiled brat.

Second, that sick "routine" didn't look like some kind of act to gain sympathy or get her way. It's not a tantrum if you're not in complete control. So yea, not a tantrum. Kirino's immature, but we already knew that.

Perhaps I am wrong in equivocating immaturity with being a spoiled brat. Her sick routine was the result of emotions that showed her to be very immature. Why is she immature? Because she's a spoiled brat who always has things going right for her. She never experiences the downs of life truly as she's either too perfect or has a brother prostrating himself for her every time something doesn't go her way.

At the meeting she only suddenly became very meek and depressed because things were not "going her way." Sure, she didn't throw a tantrum in the meeting. But this is simply the behavior of a spoiled brat to me.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Most of Kirino's requests I felt were reasonable. Suggesting some specific voice actors, requesting a specific artistic team... that seems reasonable to me.

But a different OP for each and every anime episode?

When it's 52 episodes in length?

<snip>

In complete seriousness, it wasn't just that she had some requests - which would be fine - but it was the sheer number of them, and the outlandishness of some of them.

That was the one request that definitely stood out as outlandish to me. I mean 52 op's? Really lol? "Sure! Just let me talk to our producers and I'm sure we can pull out a wad of cash from thin air!"

[Hypernova]

There are two ways when some one who is spoiled hit a brick wall: Throw a tantrum is the first but the second way is they just collapse as they can't precess it. Kirino is the 2nd type.

As for the reality bit if she is truly an otaku then she should already have some basic understanding of how anime productions work.

All three people in this ep (Kyosuke, Kirino, Kuroneko) did it wrong this ep.
Kyosuke - besides the spoiling part I already explaining in my first post in this thread, he used the wrong card. sympaphy card won't work for bigger problems.
Kuroneko - Playing the insult card was wrong too and it didn't work, all it did was enrage them.
Kirino - She should have just refused to the whole deal on the grounds that a substandard adaption would reduce the worth of her IP portfolio. If she continue the series in novel there will be more sincere deals coming.

Of course the committee had their fault too. They were the ones asking for suggestions and yet totally ignored her when she did have reasonable ideas.

[DJ Trouble]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Perhaps I am wrong in equivocating immaturity with being a spoiled brat.

Basically.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Her sick routine was the result of emotions that showed her to be very immature. Why is she immature? Because she's a spoiled brat who always has things going right for her.

Bzzzt, wrong answer. She's immature because she's a fourteen year old girl.

I've also got to say, I don't think you're using the word "spoiled" correctly. From what we've been told, Kirino is said to work really hard for everything she has, except for the looks she was born with. When you have to work for everything you have, that's not being spoiled. In fact, that's the very opposite of being spoiled, of being constantly given things that you didn't earn.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

She never experiences the downs of life truly as she's either too perfect or has a brother prostrating himself for her every time something doesn't go her way.

I've got to say I think you're wrong on this one, too. It's been hinted at that Kirino and her brother didn't get along too well before the start of the show. It's also been hinted at the Kirino resents the fact that they don't get along. We don't know the specifics, but it could easily be a very traumatic thing for Kirino.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by DJ Trouble

I've also got to say, I don't think you're using the word "spoiled" correctly. From what we've been told, Kirino is said to work really hard for everything she has, except for the looks she was born with. When you have to work for everything you have, that's not being spoiled. In fact, that's the very opposite of being spoiled, of being constantly given things that you didn't earn.

I very much doubt that Kirino was spoiled by her parents.

But her brother is well on his way to more than making up for that.

Kirino has earned all of her financial gain and overall success in life, yes. No question.

But what she hasn't really earned is what Kyousuke keeps doing for her:

1. Saving her from having to get through a difficult situation with her father.
2. Saving her from having to get through a difficult situation with her best friend.
3. Shielding her from the unpleasant realities of the anime industry.

Now, I have no major complaint with what Kyousuke did for Kirino as it pertains to her father's plan to confiscate/scrap her entire otaku collection, because that would have been grossly harsh and unfair to her.

Saving her from her situation with her best friend Ayase is more questionable though. Shouldn't Kirino learn how to manage her own friendships with others?

And now what happened this episode... Kirino's now a pro in this industry. Shouldn't she be learning the ropes for herself? Shouldn't she be learning, from experience, how to deal with the JC Staffs and Kyoto Animations and Sunrises of her world?

Unless Kyousuke intends to one day be his sister's full-time negotiating agent (as a paid position, not as charity work), he really is spoiling her here. He's letting her achieve what she wants in these areas without her having to do any of the necessary legwork or relationship building that usually goes with it.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by DJ Trouble

Bzzzt, wrong answer. She's immature because she's a fourteen year old girl.

I've also got to say, I don't think you're using the word "spoiled" correctly. From what we've been told, Kirino is said to work really hard for everything she has, except for the looks she was born with. When you have to work for everything you have, that's not being spoiled. In fact, that's the very opposite of being spoiled, of being constantly given things that you didn't earn.

I ascribe immaturity to her because she acts like a spoiled brat, a bitch, etc. You just say its her age. What exactly about her age is relevant?

Also, how can you say she has to work hard when everything falls nicely into her lap? I thought this episode made the point that she did a one-off novel and succeeded while people like Kuroneko fail again, and again despite the extraordinary effort they put in. She's been spoiled by the people around her, namely her brother and friends, and she has not needed to learn life's lessons really from WHAT IS PRESENTED to us. If she's got a past to offer justification to certain actions, I want to see it. So far though, it's inexcusable.

Originally Posted by DJ Trouble

I've got to say I think you're wrong on this one, too. It's been hinted at that Kirino and her brother didn't get along too well before the start of the show. It's also been hinted at the Kirino resents the fact that they don't get along. We don't know the specifics, but it could easily be a very traumatic thing for Kirino.

Like I said above, lets see it then. I highly doubt there's much evidence to suggest otherwise, and I doubt there is much to her past to make us sympathize with her.

[Don't press enter]

I hope, I really hope, that there's going to be a setback in the near future that Kirino has to deal with by herself.

The three things that were listed above:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

1. Saving her from having to get through a difficult situation with her father.
2. Saving her from having to get through a difficult situation with her best friend.
3. Shielding her from the unpleasant realities of the anime industry.

They were all things that Kirino could have learned from by herself. Now, maybe with the first scenario, Kyousuke did the right thing in intervening, but with the other two, chances were missed to develop Kirino's character (and thus, in my eyes at least, make her likable).

Instead, we get her relying on her brother when things get difficult (scen. 2) or worse, believing that her behaviour is the right thing to do and will get a desired result (scen. 3).

What's missing is a major complication that can't be solved by Kyousuke sacrificing himself (again).

[Yuno]

I always feel sorry for Kyousuke sacrificing himself. He is such a kind hearted person to go all these great lengths. What Kuroneko said in this episode made a lot of sense. "She needs to take a fall." Kuroneko really showed how wise she is and is rapidly becoming one of my favourite characters. It also bothers me how Kyousuke is treated despite the fact that he is giving "life counseling." Kyousuke is reinforcing her behaviour, and I worry for his character who started as generally a simple carefree guy.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Don't press enter

I hope, I really hope, that there's going to be a setback in the near future that Kirino has to deal with by herself.

The three things that were listed above:


They were all things that Kirino could have learned from by herself. Now, maybe with the first scenario, Kyousuke did the right thing in intervening, but with the other two, chances were missed to develop Kirino's character (and thus, in my eyes at least, make her likable).

Instead, we get her relying on her brother when things get difficult (scen. 2) or worse, believing that her behaviour is the right thing to do and will get a desired result (scen. 3).

What's missing is a major complication that can't be solved by Kyousuke sacrificing himself (again).

I pretty much share your feelings.

I want to apologize to any and all source material fans reading this because a lot of our discussion must seem awfully moot to them.

However, just to put it out there now before I personally know what happens next, I do see at least one way that this anime's story could progress that would be tremendously satisfying and possibly make for a very compelling story.

Kirino hinted at what I'm thinking of here by bringing up the specter of her "final counseling" session with Kyousuke. And Kuroneko could play an important role here with how I think she'd like to have Kyousuke as a brother of sorts in her life.

Suffice it to say that it would be very interesting to see what would happen if Kirino suddenly decided that she doesn't need her brother's help any more, and basically cut herself off from him. At the same time, we could see Kyousuke grow closer to Kuroneko.

[germanturkey]

i loved Kuroneko this ep. amazing in how she spoke her mind about Kirino and the writer.

anywho, Kirino needs more dere and less tsun. 'nuff said. next ep is the last life counseling. i wonder how she'll take it when he isn't doing stuff for her any more. look how she was when he was gone one night!

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I pretty much share your feelings.

<snip>

Kirino hinted at what I'm thinking of here by bringing up the specter of her "final counseling" session with Kyousuke. And Kuroneko could play an important role here with how I think she'd like to have Kyousuke as a brother of sorts in her life.

Suffice it to say that it would be very interesting to see what would happen if Kirino suddenly decided that she doesn't need her brother's help any more, and basically cut herself off from him. At the same time, we could see Kyousuke grow closer to Kuroneko.

I also share these sentiments. It's critical to developing not only Kirino's character, but also Kyousuke's and perhaps some side characters like Kuroneko.

[Ascaloth]

Episode 8:

Ep 3 - Yep, Kyousuke is a real bro standing up to his father like that for his imouto. Major respect.

Ep 5 - Yeah, that was a head-scratching way of resolving the situation, but in retrospect there aren't too many alternatives to dealing with narrow-minded people like Ayase anyway. Besides, Kirino did pretty well for herself beforehand, so no real issues here.

Ep 8 - Okay man, now you're just coddling her. This could've been a valuable life lesson on harsh reality for your imouto, so why'd you intervene, Kyousuke?

And really, mounting a personal attack on the scriptwriter, and kowtowing? I really don't think reality works that way. This could have been a pretty good episode; too bad AIC chickened out on providing anything but a fairytale ending.

[Jarmel]

Oh she was acting as a brat. She practically slammed into his door and then 'fainted'. I mean that's just screaming for attention. Kyousuke needs to stop bailing her out of problems that really aren't his to begin with. I mean she isn't even likable in the first place so I could understand if she was a good person but she's not.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Key Board

This episode seriously offends the bakuman fan in me

You're not alone

As an anime only viewer,I need to know if I really get this:an episode where the main cast fight an anime staff so that they don't change a LN into something completely different is itself completely different from the LN it came from?

Pretty ironic if that's the case

[DJ Trouble]

Immaturity and being a spoiled brat aren't related. You can be one without the other, so you shouldn't say that because one trait is present it automatically makes her the other one.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I ascribe immaturity to her because she acts like a spoiled brat, a bitch, etc. You just say its her age. What exactly about her age is relevant?

I call her immature because of the KIRA dance she does when Meruru starts. I mean really, getting that excited at the opening song that you've seen who knows how many times before? So childish!

But again, I don't see immaturity and being a spoiled brat as related, so you mentioning the immaturity is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Also, how can you say she has to work hard when everything falls nicely into her lap? I thought this episode made the point that she did a one-off novel and succeeded while people like Kuroneko fail again, and again despite the extraordinary effort they put in. She's been spoiled by the people around her, namely her brother and friends, and she has not needed to learn life's lessons really from WHAT IS PRESENTED to us. If she's got a past to offer justification to certain actions, I want to see it. So far though, it's inexcusable.

I say it because that's what we're told. We rarely see her doing any kind of work, but when we do, she's putting the feelings of her teammates above her own problems and giving it her all.

I don't see everything falling into her lap, because she barely has anything to begin with. She has two obligations, school and work, both of which she works hard at. She has two pasttimes, her friends and her eroge. For the longest time these were conflicting with each other, and she was, still is, extremely conscious of that fact. She can't be her complete self around her school friends, because lolerogesux, and she didn't have anyone to share her eroge hobby with because she thinks she's weird and a pervert for liking what she does.

I guess no one likes to think about the fact that she's obviously had her hobby for awhile, but has be alone and worried about getting caught, for good reason, the entire time. Yea, because that's not a hardship. That's things going exactly how Kirino wants them to go.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Like I said above, lets see it then. I highly doubt there's much evidence to suggest otherwise, and I doubt there is much to her past to make us sympathize with her.

Hmm, I guess I did this one above.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Saving her from her situation with her best friend Ayase is more questionable though. Shouldn't Kirino learn how to manage her own friendships with others?

Didn't she try and fail? I remember Ayase crying on Kirino's shoulder after she gave some big speech because she still couldn't bring herself to be associated with Kirino's eroge hobby.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

And now what happened this episode... Kirino's now a pro in this industry. Shouldn't she be learning the ropes for herself? Shouldn't she be learning, from experience, how to deal with the JC Staffs and Kyoto Animations and Sunrises of her world?

I don't think Kirino's a pro, or going to be getting any more anime, or anything even close to what you're suggesting, but . . . After this first anime has been properly adapted, I think she'd be a little more open to having her story mangled and poorly adapted from her light novel or whatever they call the stories she writes.

[type-R!]

This episode probably showed what happened in real life in the making of this episode.
With 5 or 4 episodes left I really hope for a second season and not a rushed ending.

[Dr. Casey]

this episode was the best I watched it and was like man this episode is really good

[Don't press enter]

Originally Posted by DJ Trouble

I don't think Kirino's a pro, or going to be getting any more anime, or anything even close to what you're suggesting, but . . . After this first anime has been properly adapted, I think she'd be a little more open to having her story mangled and poorly adapted from her light novel or whatever they call the stories she writes.

Weeell, to my mind the learning experience was to do more with business and cooperation in general. Some people are going to ideas that contrast your own, and sometimes, yes, such ideas will screw you over completely. She could have learnt to deal with that without getting ill and so forth. Recover from the loss, and move forward.

Instead, the intervention happens, and Kirino now believes that she managed to convince the panel under mere brute 'passion'. So in the future (when Kyousuke isn't there to help), she will try the same thing, fail, and be crushed.

Though the fact that she's calling the last counselling session looks promising. Maybe after this she'll learn all the lessons she's missed, and Kyousuke'll learn to find the balance between ignoring her and spoiling her.

[Solecs]

I honestly didn't have much of a problem with Kirino this episode. I thought her giving ideas on the anime was pretty funny. On the other hand, I'm quickly losing respect for Kyousuke. Honestly, go in there with a plan or something. I was ok with the "because she loves it" argument with the father and halfway ok with it with Ayase (though honestly, he still had to push some BS that didn't really make sense.). Here though, like the guy said, it's business. If not for Kuroneko's speech I'd have given up on the whole scene.

On another note, the pacing has felt really off the last couple episodes. I've no exposure to the novels so I don't know if it's much better, but it feels rushed or disjointed. Kirino's sudden onset of illness felt like it came out of nowhere this episode, which looks like it was better explained in the novels from what people are saying.

[Archon_Wing]

I see, there were probably arguing in the writing room and this came out. Crap! We can't get it right, let's blame it on the staff.

The episode touches upon a number of good things. A creator pouring her heart out over misguided intentions, and the need to balance it with what makes the dough. A brother not wanting to see this dream go to waste and apparently doesn't know what he feels for his sister anymore. And finally, the coolest side character going on a fillibuster on how she's jealous of the main character as Kiirino gets all the good things and all the screen time.

Sadly it doesn't really add up. Before I knew it the episode was over, and that must been one of the most unconvincing stunts ever. Kyouske must be doing this matyr act for a reason! And the reason is... we don't know. And Kiirino doesn't change anyways. Was there a point to this episode? Well if it promotes Kyou x Kuroneko I don't think I'll mind at all.

6/10

[ninja_pintu]

The last few episodes of oreimo haven't been that good for me. This series needs to be subtle with its tsunderes.