Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

If you read his notes in the earlier volumes, he often expressed concern over those action stories that he felt went too long. (Well, it was either him or his editor that felt this way.) Several times, he mentioned wanting to just do one-off gag chapters. Losing action stories reduces the chances of multi-chapter stories.

Personally, I think Hata-sensei is very mistaken, but that's just me.

Not just you, I can assure you. I'd be very surprised if the vast majority of readers would not share this sentiment.

Sometimes, I do wonder how much of this limbo is him and how much is Shogakukan milking the cow to death. It is not unheard of for manga publishers to "encourage" a mangaka to stretch out his work (Love Hina being the example that immediately springs to mind).

Point taken, it might be the publisher's fault, as well. At least, Love Hina managed to conclude the story nicely and logically, as the result of a long-running, lasting development. I felt very satisfied with the LH ending. With HnG, I don't see such a development.

It isn't that I mind that result, but there's no romance between the two. On occasion, Nagi is shown to have interest in Hayate. Hayate cares for Nagi, but the romance element isn't there. I think Hata-sensei realized he put himself in a bind when he did the Greece arc because it really made Hayate x Athena a strong pairing. Looking back, I think that's why he did that image showing Athena handing Nagi's hat back to her, as if to say, "Even though I am best girl, this manga was created with the intent of a Nagi x Hayate ending, thus by giving you this hat, I am out of it."

Greece (Royal Palace) was in fact the first story which Hata had presented to the publisher and which was _rejected_. His second attempt, HnG, passed. Greece was Hata's "submarine" in which he published his original story with HnG characters. Therefore, a romantic conclusion with Athena made sense. It's a great irony that Greece is generally accepted as HnGs best arc when in fact, all Hata wants to do now is pretend that it never happened

I know about School Rumble Z -- is that where these two arcs are at?

That, and there was another release of his (that I can't look up right now atm).

Still, you have a point. I think of Genshiken, where Koi-sensei wanted Madarame and Saki to be the romantic couple. As he put it, he couldn't figure out a way to make that happen during Genshiken's run. So he created Spotted Flower and filled it with unnamed characters that look suspiciously like Genshiken characters, only here, the not-Madarame and the not-Saki have gotten married.

Really?? I didn't know that!

I hope that the mods will tolerate just a few lines on this off-topic issue, but this is incredibly interesting to me. During Genshiken, I always thought that Saki indeed should have ended up with Madarame, because it would have made the story come full-circle: The proponent of the "normal" links up with the proponent of the "nerds". It would also have been more popular with me since Madarame simply seemed to care more. I do recognize though that it wouldn't have been realistically possible at Madarame's confession, but still...

With Genshiken Nidaime proving pretty popular, I think that Koi-sensei may still try to work a Madarame x Saki hookup before all is said and done.

This would give me a very good reason to catch up on Nidaime (which I dropped since the number of characters I cared for was too low). Here's unexpectedly something to hope for! Thanks for the treat!

[Hata about Hina's victories in popularity contests] What exactly did he say?

I don't have a link for the translated interviews on this, but we have glimpses on the releases themselves: His comment on the first contest (which was relatively soon after Hina's late introduction): "Now that was unexpected."

On the subsequent contests, he had annoyed Nagis deliver the "yet again" lines (they are in some translated omakes), subjecting Hina to stripping exercises... it sure was no hero's celebration.

Lasting development would kill easy gag opportunities, which is where I think the problem lies. As I said earlier, the Nagi from the prototype manga is one I could see Hayate becoming romantically involved with over time. The updated Nagi was changed to increase the gags. While Nagi has had some development, actually causing her to have pivot points that last (which the doujinshi arc should have been) kill her gag potential, and Hata-sensei is clearly loathe to give up gag material.

Exactly. Which is why over the last 1-2 years, my hopes for a proper conclusion have tanked (along with my enthusiasm for this show, to be honest). Which frustrates me, because he COULD go for a proper conclusion with a bit of preparation, but he'd have to suppress his urges.

I may be brain dead here, but who wants to scissor-scissor with Hina?

Forgot already?

Miki. One of the girls of the terrible trio. She fell for Hina after the steeplechase race.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Sean Gaffney

The trouble is, Hayate the Combat Butler was in trouble the moment it began, at least in North America, as its lead girl was a) underage to the point where it was hard to ignore (as opposed to say, Sailor Moon, with its 14-year-olds in romances), and b) frequently angry or curt with the hero in the classic "twintails tsundere" way.

Nagi's 13. It's not that much of a difference from a 14-year old Sailor Moon.

[Anh_Minh]

And Hayate's only 16, not a college student like Tuxedo Mask.

Still, Nagi's drawn more like a kid than Sailor Moon is.

[AnimeFangirl]

Hata will shock you all by doing a 5-year time skip and turning them both into adults. He will then marry them off in the very next chapter and heat his home for the next 20 years with the flames of the fans' fury.

[GDB]

Don't think "shock" is the appropriate word.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by Lisemer

Btw, the lesbian one is Miki, the member of the trio with straight grey hair.

I was brain dead. The second I read her name, I went, "D'OH!" I need more sleep.

Originally Posted by Sean Gaffney

The trouble is, Hayate the Combat Butler was in trouble the moment it began, at least in North America, as its lead girl was a) underage to the point where it was hard to ignore (as opposed to say, Sailor Moon, with its 14-year-olds in romances), and b) frequently angry or curt with the hero in the classic "twintails tsundere" way.

I guess I never looked at Nagi's crush on Hayate as anything more than a gag because until the flashback arc, that's all I saw this manga as.

Both these traits are wildly popular in Japan and wildly unpopular here (Only Toradora and FMP have really escaped the 'lead angry girl is hated by a majority of Western fandom' cliche). Add to that the fact that by the time North America noticed Hayate as a franchise, Hina was on the rise, and Nagi never had any opportunity to get a fanbase here.

Nagi's and Hayate's relationship was never portrayed as serious. However, there was a spark between Hina and Hayate from the start and that played out so that Hina realizes she was in love with Hayate and Hayate recognizes Hina is a very attractive girl.

But the romance stuff wasn't my draw to the manga. It was the whacky comedy stuff combined with fun characters and situations. I guess I'm just odd that way.

Originally Posted by Mentar

It's a great irony that Greece is generally accepted as HnGs best arc when in fact, all Hata wants to do now is pretend that it never happened

Which is a shame.

This would give me a very good reason to catch up on Nidaime (which I dropped since the number of characters I cared for was too low). Here's unexpectedly something to hope for! Thanks for the treat!

Genshiken Nidaime has gotten rather interesting once Madarame got a harem. And Saki does come back for a few chapters, but we can discuss that in the Genshiken thread. ^_^

Forgot already?

Miki. One of the girls of the terrible trio. She fell for Hina after the steeplechase race.

I really do need more sleep. *lol*

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

And Hayate's only 16, not a college student like Tuxedo Mask.

Still, Nagi's drawn more like a kid than Sailor Moon is.

Well, as Barenaked Ladies said, "Gotta get in tune with Sailor Moon 'cause the cartoon has got the boom anime babes that make me think the wrong thing"

And the original manga was more so as the girls in their Sailor outfits are pure jailbait (were this RL).

Originally Posted by AnimeFangirl

Hata will shock you all by doing a 5-year time skip and turning them both into adults. He will then marry them off in the very next chapter and heat his home for the next 20 years with the flames of the fans' fury.

Heh!heh! That might be how things end.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

But the romance stuff wasn't my draw to the manga. It was the whacky comedy stuff combined with fun characters and situations. I guess I'm just odd that way.

I'm the same. The "story stuff" isn't bad, but that's not why I'm reading.

[Xellos-_^]

Sometimes, I do wonder how much of this limbo is him and how much is Shogakukan milking the cow to death. It is not unheard of for manga publishers to "encourage" a mangaka to stretch out his work (Love Hina being the example that immediately springs to mind).

but after 10 years i expect hata to have enough cache to tell the editor to stuff it if he didn't agree with the editors. Whether the original idea to prolong the series was Hata or the editor. It was/is Hata's decision to go along with it.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I'm the same. The "story stuff" isn't bad, but that's not why I'm reading.

When I realized there was a story, that's when the manga got more interesting to me, so I do like the story...when we get tidbits of it.

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

but after 10 years i expect hata to have enough cache to tell the editor to stuff it if he didn't agree with the editors. Whether the original idea to prolong the series was Hata or the editor. It was/is Hata's decision to go along with it.

Depends on who owns the copyright to the franchise; Hata-sensei or Shogakukan.

[Xellos-_^]

Doesn't matter who owns the copyright. Hata is a 10 yr vet with highly successful manga. He should have enough pull to tell the editors to stuff if he doesn't want to keep the manga stringing along as it is.

[AnimeFangirl]

What makes you think he's not the one stringing the series along? Has he ever shown signs of dissatisfaction?

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by AnimeFangirl

What makes you think he's not the one stringing the series along? Has he ever shown signs of dissatisfaction?

if you read my previous couple of post, that is my point.

[AnimeFangirl]

Yeah, I think we should take a "Guilty until proven innocent" stance on this one.

[GDB]

I'm not serving him in a court of law. The manga is dragging, has been for years, and I don't care whose fault it is. It needs to get fixed. I only continue reading it for the same reason I read Bleach and Naruto after they got bad: I'm already time and emotionally invested in the series, and it takes less than 5 minutes to read a chapter.

Unlike those other two, I buy Hayate from Viz. But I had already decided back during the manga competition arc that I was going to stop buying at volume 25. And nothing that Hata's put out has made me even consider changing my mind on that.

[AstroNerdBoy]

I continue to buy the manga. It may be dragging on the plot, but I still find it entertaining.

[AnimeFangirl]

Well done. I quit reading it ages ago, popped in last week to see A-tan is STILL in her childhood form and dropped out again. Someone tell me when she's back to normal and the story can finally get moving again.

[AstroNerdBoy]

I was thinking the manga was back this week, but I guess I was wrong. ^_^;

[AstroNerdBoy]

Chapter 478 -- So, time to create a new manga then.

[GDB]

It's funny how Nagi says Sunday's been losing steam lately (true), but ignores that Magazine has been losing steam even more (not that Jump isn't also losing steam, just not as much).

[ChampDream]

I bet in the end Nagi will use Hayate and another girl or all the girls in his harem for her new manga.