Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

One of the problems of having real AI is that the human programmers can't anticipate every eventuality. There's a reason why people themselves have so much trouble deciding what is right in various situations. Once Kugel died, Striker would have sought a human officer (unavailable) then gone for a plan of action based on the aims of the Union. Now an officer has arrived, but the new plan has become Striker's guiding principle, so she/it refuses to recognize his authority.

That is another bit of illogic, in my opinion. She should immediately recognize Ledo, it seems to me. That is logical, but it is also one of Asimov's three laws of robotics: 1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm; 2. A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law; 3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.

Of course, a military robot by its nature goes against the first law, so perhaps military robots have other laws. And Striker may have "gone crazy" and jumped the rails of its original programming, anyway.

Never mind. At least this is real science fiction, so I'd better count my blessings.

Bringing Asimov into Gargantia just because there are robots makes about as much sense as bringing Star Driver into Attack on Titan because the Cybodies and Eotens are big. Though at least you can have fabulous eotens in the latter scenario

[kakakka]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I would have liked to see Kugel and Ledo argue about their now diverging philosophies. Kugel would have represented the GA Ledo now rejects.

To be honest, I agree with you. But this also ties in with Chamber's dialogue 2 episodes before. In a sense, the Machine Calibers (and the AI) are the representation of GA's ideals....

Now that Ledo knows the truth, he's going to dismiss anything Striker says as the ramblings of a faulty A.I.

Yeah.

I am thinking Striker is carrying Kugel's will; since Kugel died, Striker was left to continue Kugel's wish, not only for the sake of GA's ideals, but also to affirm its continued existence.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Umm, sorry but Kugel is as dead as you can get. There is no "if he is alive". The guy is dust, bone, hair, and bits of leathery flesh.

...and his head came off. In most cases you don't come back from that one.

[Irenesharda]

Here's a question: Why the HECK hasn't Pinion been wearing his hair down? He looks 10 times more awesome, and he seems to have gotten 10 times smarter too. Maybe all that hair gel was affecting his brain...

[andyjay729]

I don't know why all robotics stories have to be hidebound to Asimov's laws, since we obviously haven't yet developed a sentient robot. (And perhaps shows like this and 2001 show why we probably shouldn't.)

Yes, I can perhaps imagine a scenario where a sentient computer might declare itself superior to its "meatbag" creators and perhaps as mankind's successor child; a creature born of pure intellect. If a robot or even computer has all the intellectual capacities of a human, why shouldn't it develop sentiments of arrogance and pride...or perhaps independence and justice, as Chamber seems to be doing when it/he agreed to go into battle against Striker?

Going back to the show, I personally would've liked the fight between Ledo and Striker to be a little more drawn out and Ledo to actually be in a position of danger and fear for his life; but still, the fight that did ensue was pretty awe-inspiring, and I liked seeing him finally standing up to his old masters.

And I also like how Melty became quite the determined little spitfire in the past couple episodes. I think she's actually had more lines than Amy in the last two.

I was confused; was the squirrel Ledo encountered Grace herself, or just another of her species? (Which gives the implication that in this world, they breed like ship rats.)

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by andyjay729

I don't know why all robotics stories have to be hidebound to Asimov's laws, since we obviously haven't yet developed a sentient robot. (And perhaps shows like this and 2001 show why we probably shouldn't.)

Yes, I can perhaps imagine a scenario where a sentient computer might declare itself superior to its "meatbag" creators and perhaps as mankind's successor child; a creature born of pure intellect. If a robot or even computer has all the intellectual capacities of a human, why shouldn't it develop sentiments of arrogance and pride...or perhaps independence and justice, as Chamber seems to be doing when it/he agreed to go into battle against Striker?

Going back to the show, I personally would've liked the fight between Ledo and Striker to be a little more drawn out and Ledo to actually be in a position of danger and fear for his life; but still, the fight that did ensue was pretty awe-inspiring, and I liked seeing him finally standing up to his old masters.

And I also like how Melty became quite the determined little spitfire in the past couple episodes. I think she's actually had more lines than Amy in the last two.

I was confused; was the squirrel Ledo encountered Grace herself, or just another of her species? (Which gives the implication that in this world, they breed like ship rats.)

I believe it was another of her species since Ledo himself acknowledges that Grace is back on Gargantia with Amy.

[playmaker2k]

I was so spot on with that revelation!

It really was Striker the whole time with his corpse left rotting in the cockpit.

The A.I was probably left to revert to what it was programmed to do to remain relevant since Chamber said a couple episodes back that the machine calibur's sole purpose or in this case its "existence" was to take out the hideaze.

The only problem is it was never informed in what to do if their pilot dies along the way especially in a foreign land.

Chamber is the best!

That is all.

Oh and I like how they use the hook for the main theme in The Dark Knight during that battle with Kugel.

Don't think I didn't see what you did there, Production I.G.

Like the World's Greatest Detective, here's the proof.

Spoiler for space:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/vLqKSv1F42A

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Listen to the 2:13 marker and enjoy.

(<Batman fanatic)

[Theo]

Holy shit, Gen went Full Mami on Kugel, even with yellow hair! (yeah yeah helmet tint, but still)

[Nvis]

Ledo has his own squirrel buddy!

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

I believe it was another of her species since Ledo himself acknowledges that Grace is back on Gargantia with Amy.

Yeah, it was a totally different squirrel and actually he debuted last episode scurrying in the shadows. Grace has longer ears, which may indicate that the female of the species is bigger with more extravagant markings and long ears, where the male is smaller with blunter ears and a little plainer.

So yeah, he and Amy now have a pair!

[Marina2]

I love this ep.

- Ledo re-do his thought.
- Melty didn’t get melted by beam when she took off.
- Pinion changed his opinion on Kugel (Striker) force.
- LUKKAGE lurked under water and attacked.
- Striker get struck by Chamber.
- Amy is ready to go to save Ledo.
- Kugel turned into gel…. (oh! )

[ReddyRedWolf]

Chamber I'm impressed! You left the decision to Ledo.

In a way Chamber is a master manipulator. He had doubts with the disease and "happiness" Striker was spewing but ultimately left the choice to Ledo.

He would support his pilot over somebody who does not act rationally.

Striker it seems ultimately lost its marbles. Ledo and Chamber fight her to protect humanity.

[Unknown Soldier]

Chamber is merely a pilot support system. His purpose is to maximize the combat efficiency of his pilot. In the absence of direct orders from the Galactic Alliance, he obeys the commands of his pilot. He didn't leave the decision to anyone, he's an AI programmed to support his pilot.

What's interesting is what Striker is doing. In the absence of her pilot, why is she acting on her own? Her purpose is to maximize the efficiency of her pilot. I hope the Galactic Alliance are not so stupid as to design a support AI which doesn't automatically execute a failsafe shutdown on the termination of the pilot's life.

After last week's episode, it looked like the show was about to go completely off the rails but this episode somehow managed to jump clear off the tracks and land squarely on another set of tracks. It's obvious they are rushing the story now though, one wonders why they wasted so much time earlier on with such a short 1-cour run planned.

[novalysis]

Well, I am surprised no one has brought up the other crazy possibility of a twist ending: Gargantia is a pre-preparation virtual program for those entering Avalon.

[LystAP]

A minor tidbit I realized that should have made the eventual Kugel reveal more predictable while watching this episode. During the battle, "Kugel" was basically repeating the same statements he made earlier, with no differences in tone or wording that a human may have under similar circumstances.

[yankky5]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Here's a question: Why the HECK hasn't Pinion been wearing his hair down? He looks 10 times more awesome, and he seems to have gotten 10 times smarter too. Maybe all that hair gel was affecting his brain...

lol just like himekawa xD

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Chamber is merely a pilot support system. His purpose is to maximize the combat efficiency of his pilot. In the absence of direct orders from the Galactic Alliance, he obeys the commands of his pilot. He didn't leave the decision to anyone, he's an AI programmed to support his pilot.

What's interesting is what Striker is doing. In the absence of her pilot, why is she acting on her own? Her purpose is to maximize the efficiency of her pilot. I hope the Galactic Alliance are not so stupid as to design a support AI which doesn't automatically execute a failsafe shutdown on the termination of the pilot's life.

After last week's episode, it looked like the show was about to go completely off the rails but this episode somehow managed to jump clear off the tracks and land squarely on another set of tracks. It's obvious they are rushing the story now though, one wonders why they wasted so much time earlier on with such a short 1-cour run planned.

Astro boy would be so proud of you, you used he and she on chamber and striker instead of it :P

[ArrowSmith]

Awesome episode. When Ledo tells Chamber - "Chamber, prepare for war", I did a Freddie Mercury raised fist.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by yankky5

Astro boy would be so proud of you, you used he and she on chamber and striker instead of it :P

The AIs are programmed to have male and female human voices. What's wrong with using the proper genders to address them? Why else would they have been programmed with human voices instead of robotic ones? Anthropomorphism is intentional when machine voices are assigned human qualities, it's so humans will feel more comfortable when interacting with them. Haven't you ever wondered why Siri is a woman?

[durack]

This really feels like a 26 episode show spliced into 13.... at random

Watchable but utterly forgettable. A pity.

[ArrowSmith]

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

The AIs are programmed to have male and female human voices. What's wrong with using the proper genders to address them? Why else would they have been programmed with human voices instead of robotic ones? Anthropomorphism is intentional when machine voices are assigned human qualities, it's so humans will feel more comfortable when interacting with them. Haven't you ever wondered why Siri is a woman?

Just look at Siri - female voice.