Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by MShukyDeneuve

You being vague, is that your personality or do you want people to ask you??

okay i will ask...what is it, something really interesting that you found out on chinese wiki??

THIS.

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...ytllkCa-tQrs4A


http://translate.googleusercontent.c...D5KcngcEnEynjw


"Snow Goddess"....

[hakazee]

Originally Posted by Lucarion

They like going all-natural and they probably had their lolicon-inclined members do the deed.

GAA is dangerous Pedhofil.

They kidnap children and rape them like that.

Originally Posted by Echizen777

I agree with you, it's not inhuman but from respectable families like the master clans and the heir whose identity will be publicly known moreover, to have a child like that? I don't think it will ever happen.

Their reason to create magician like that is unacceptable.

[MShukyDeneuve]

Originally Posted by Lucarion

THIS.

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...ytllkCa-tQrs4A


http://translate.googleusercontent.c...D5KcngcEnEynjw


"Snow Goddess"....

So how is this Parvati wipe out all other Tatsuya shipping???

Don't tell me it is your own opinion??

I understood on Parvati part.

But it is weird to assume thing will be same on Miyuki.

You excited over nothing....i got tricked by you..ugh.

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by hakazee

You think that's a good idea ? Human will do that ?

Ah.....So, who's the Surrogate mother ?

Human will do that? Dude, ever heard of sperm banks?
People do that, today.
And who's talking about surrogate mothers? I mean, it is an option, but by no means required for the procedure.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Did you even wonder why Maya didnt do that?
What I meant by human nature are religion, pleasure, guilt, greed, lust and more and more. Everyone isnt like Tatsuya. Pay them money for my genes if it was me i'll say you can take your money just let me have a taste of that; you woulndt meet a girl like Miyuki.#!

Why would Maya do that? She had an heir already, and did not want to raise a child.

See, this is you projecting yourself to rest of humanity.
Plenty of people would give a sperm sample if paid (and what makes you think the donor would ever even meet Miyuki, or learn what the sample was for?).

We are not talking about Miyuki suddenly becoming like Tatsuya, or anyone, we're talking about the necessity of marriage, something Miyuki would not want, and the way she can easily avoid that.

Originally Posted by pampz21

And if they just need Maya's genes why was there a need to gang bang her that utterly destroyed her? Isnt it for the pleasure of banging a girl from the all powerful Yotsuba? That sense bliss and humiliation.

Because they are stupid, cruel and short sighted?
Seriously, i can't know why auther made something happen in one way.
I can just theorize about what the reasons might have been, or, like in this case, what possible options are available.

Originally Posted by Echizen777

I agree with you, it's not inhuman but from respectable families like the master clans and the heir whose identity will be publicly known moreover, to have a child like that? I don't think it will ever happen.

See people, this is a reasonable, logical argument, more of these please.
I disagree though.

Yotsuba are not a family that publicizes their family issues, nor do they care about being "respectable"
And Miyuki's identity is not known (yet), and neither might the identity of her children be until the Yotsuba are ready to openly show them of.

"Miyuki has to marry to provide an heir" is the claim.
I have pointed out how it is not necessary either from biological, or practical point of view.
Now there could be advantages to a marriage, but would they be greater than making the head of the most powerful mage clan in japan pissed of and miserable, and possibly making the walking nuke go off out of anger?
Unlikely.

The whole "Miyuki has to marry in the future" is just drama for drama's sake.
Could the author go down that route, sure, but unless he comes up with a better justifications than the ones provided here, or writes it so that Miyuki and Tatsuya are actually fine with it (not happy, but not miserable either), i am going to call bullshit.

Also, even if Miyuki marries, that does not mean she has to actually spend any time with her husband, especially if it's a political marriage, pop a heir or two, then ignore each other for rest of their lives.

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by MShukyDeneuve

So how is this Parvati wipe out all other Tatsuya shipping???

Don't tell me it is your own opinion??

I understood on Parvati part.

But it is weird to assume thing will be same on Miyuki.

You excited over nothing....i got tricked by you..ugh.

Trick? No, my friend. This is EXACTLY what I needed. Of course, the story could take a very different direction, but I think this is pretty telling, so from now on, I'm going to be a little more assertive, for I'm now 98% sure this story will, one way or another, end with Tatsuya being with Miyuki.

Now, how does this wipe out all the other pairings? Check it out. "Snow Goddess". That's very important. I keep stressing that Miyuki shares the same personality, role, effect on people as the goddess Parvati, as well as sharing vaguely similar circumstances. But there was one thing about her that made me wonder: why snow? The author made them feel so similar already, so why'd he give Miyuki snow as her most prominently used magic? And give her all these snow related symbols and titles? Sure, Parvati lived in the snowy mountains, but surely that can't be enough. Maybe it's just some personal added touch to her character? I thought. Or maybe it's another tie in to the fact that there was a Shiva summon in FF who used ice. They don't have to be completely similar...

But this changes everything. Parvati's name in Chinese is "Snow Goddess" and now everything about her character and her symbolic attributes make sense. What this does is basically move Miyuki away from simply having the same functions as Parvati and being heavily based on her, to being nigh identical to her and being a good re-imagining of the goddess into the story of Mahouka. Like Tatsuya. Who people have long since established is nigh identical to Shiva. Now we can say the same thing about Miyuki. Because even her ice powers fit with the mythological parallels. Logic also dictates that since it appears they've kept with the parallels this long--we've got half the story finished already--it follows that they'd probably do the same till the end. Shiva is married to the Snow Goddess. Now...what does that say?

[pampz21]

Originally Posted by J4n1

Why would Maya do that? She had an heir already, and did not want to raise a child.

What the hell are you talking about; Maya wanted to have an heir, that why she and Miya made a plan to marry Tatsurou? Maya didnt want a child? Maya cant bare a child.

Originally Posted by J4n1

See, this is you projecting yourself to rest of humanity.
Plenty of people would give a sperm sample if paid (and what makes you think the donor would ever even meet Miyuki, or learn what the sample was for?).

We are not talking about Miyuki suddenly becoming like Tatsuya, or anyone, we're talking about the necessity of marriage, something Miyuki would not want, and the way she can easily avoid that.

Who would donate their sperm? people from TMC? thats why Koichi and Maya was engage because Seagusa wont give their sperm and Yotsuba wont just give them away, even for money. Even if she doesnt want it, if ordered she will do it#!

Originally Posted by J4n1

Because they are stupid, cruel and short sighted?
Seriously, i can't know why auther made something happen in one way.
I can just theorize about what the reasons might have been, or, like in this case, what possible options are available.

People have their own beliefs; there are people who believes that natural birth is the best and by adjusting sperms or making sperm cell and egg cell manipulatively combine itself is considered playing as a God.

Yes there are benefits to the things you are saying but Who are we to tell them that what they believe is wrong and you are right?
In the end if peoples ideals are that easy to push then we would have world peace by now

Watch Gundam Seed and you'll see the world you are talking about!

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by J4n1

Yotsuba are not a family that publicizes their family issues, nor do they care about being "respectable"
And Miyuki's identity is not known (yet), and neither might the identity of her children be until the Yotsuba are ready to openly show them of.

"Miyuki has to marry to provide an heir" is the claim.
I have pointed out how it is not necessary either from biological, or practical point of view.
Now there could be advantages to a marriage, but would they be greater than making the head of the most powerful mage clan in japan pissed of and miserable, and possibly making the walking nuke go off out of anger?
Unlikely.

The whole "Miyuki has to marry in the future" is just drama for drama's sake.
Could the author go down that route, sure, but unless he comes up with a better justifications than the ones provided here, or writes it so that Miyuki and Tatsuya are actually fine with it (not happy, but not miserable either), i am going to call bullshit.

Also, even if Miyuki marries, that does not mean she has to actually spend any time with her husband, especially if it's a political marriage, pop a heir or two, then ignore each other for rest of their lives.

I think it was mentioned somewhere Miyuki's identity will be publicly revealed but whatever.
Miyuki will be the heir and she will be forced to marry someone with powerful genes, even if they want to use the sperm of someone, they'll need to ask of course .
The master clans are superstars, when their wedding will be announced, that will be big news. Miyuki's future status doesn't allow her not be married.

All the labs did inhuman things in the past, the 4th more than the others but nowadays this is toned down, they do experiences but they aren't like before. I don't think a lot of the couple were in love when they produced offsprings, that's a tradition.
The real problem with Miyuki is that she wants her brother Tatsuya.
Before starting worshiping him I am sure she had accepted her fate, but now she hates other men.

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

The master clans are superstars, when their wedding will be announced, that will be big news. Miyuki's future status doesn't allow her not be married.

Except for the Yotsuba. The Yotsuba are quietly feared. They don't put on shows of power. They simply are. A Yotsuba wedding will probably be a quiet, solemn, and simple, if not darkly elegant affair.

[Lucarion]

アニメージュ 2014年3月号 vol.429 春の新作特集 春はヨ・カ・ンでいっぱい!! P64より

深雪をブラコンにした、というより達也と深雪を兄弟設定にした理由は、鈍感タイプの主人公にしたくなかった からですね、兄妹だと、告白して恋人同士というわけにはいきませんから。八方美人でも無く優柔不断でも無く 鈍感でも無く恋人未満の関係を続けさせるためには、血縁という関係性が最も手っ取り早かったの です。


Someone translate this for me.


The way I understood this was Tsutomu saying he's playing the brocon-siscon relationship because he didn't want his hero to be the insensitive and indecisive type. So in order to keep the story's status quo without making Tatsuya seem insensitive or indecisive or "friendzoned", a sibling relationship was best for him.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by pampz21

I can say you are pretty racist at the same time stupid

No.

Just no.

Personal attacks are not cool.

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by pampz21

What the hell are you talking about; Maya wanted to have an heir, that why she and Miya made a plan to marry Tatsurou? Maya didnt want a child? Maya cant bare a child.

you asked "Did you even wonder why Maya didnt do that?"
That is my answer.
She did not need to.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Who would donate their sperm? people from TMC? thats why Koichi and Maya was engage because Seagusa wont give their sperm and Yotsuba wont just give them away, even for money. Even if she doesnt want it, if ordered she will do it#!

What has Saegusa got to do with this?
Tatsuya's and Miyuki's father was not Saegusa.

Originally Posted by pampz21

I can say you are pretty racist at the same time stupid

What?
I'm a racist for calling people who rape a 10 year old repeatedly because they wanted offspring out of her stupid short sighted and cruel?
Seriously?

Originally Posted by pampz21

People have their own beliefs; there are people who believes that natural birth is the best and by adjusting sperms or making sperm cell and egg cell manipulatively combine itself is considered playing as a God.

So fucking what?
What does that have to do with the question at hand?
Because Yotsuba sure as hell don't mind "playing god"
And i doubt people who would rape a 10 year old would be all that concerned about it either.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Yes there are benefits to the things you are saying but Who are we to tell them that what they believe is wrong and you are right?
In the end if peoples ideals are that easy to push then we would have world peace by now

I think we are talking about completely different things by now.
All i am saying that the idea of "Miyuki has to marry" is just borrowing trouble.
I've pointed out why and how she can avoid it without loosing anything.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Watch Gundam Seed and you'll see the world you are talking about!

?
Artificial Insemination and out of wedlock babies lead to giant robots fighting in space?

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by pampz21

Did you even wonder why Maya didnt do that?
What I meant by human nature are religion, pleasure, guilt, greed, lust and more and more. Everyone isnt like Tatsuya. Pay them money for my genes if it was me i'll say you can take your money just let me have a taste of that; you woulndt meet a girl like Miyuki.#!

And if they just need Maya's genes why was there a need to gang bang her that utterly destroyed her? Isnt it for the pleasure of banging a girl from the all powerful Yotsuba? That sense bliss and humiliation.

I feel like you're getting pretty dark lately... Is everything alright?

Originally Posted by pampz21

What the hell are you talking about; Maya wanted to have an heir, that why she and Miya made a plan to marry Tatsurou? Maya didnt want a child? Maya cant bare a child.

Who would donate their sperm? people from TMC? thats why Koichi and Maya was engage because Seagusa wont give their sperm and Yotsuba wont just give them away, even for money. Even if she doesnt want it, if ordered she will do it#!

Watch Gundam Seed and you'll see the world you are talking about!

I still personally believe Miya was ordered by someone else at the time.

Gundam Seed is a great reference for racism and elitism in culture. It sort of takes the whole concept to it's most logical extreme.

Originally Posted by Rasen

No.

Just no.

Personal attacks are not cool.

Agreed. Not cool at all.

Originally Posted by J4n1

What?
I'm a racist for calling people who rape a 10 year old repeatedly because they wanted offspring out of her stupid short sighted and cruel?
Seriously?

I feel like rising and getting upset is equally not a good idea.

Originally Posted by J4n1

?
Artificial Insemination and out of wedlock babies lead to giant robots fighting in space?

Yes, that is exactly what it leads too. Didn't you learn that in highschool?

But seriously the whole concept of Gundam seed is an Artificially created super people are at war with naturally born normal people because one believes they're better (it doesn't help that they literally are in fact better) and the normal people don't like it. It can sort of apply to this series, but more so if it dealt more with non magicians. The whole concept of Elitism is really big in both series though.

[HasNoLove]

Originally Posted by J4n1

?
Artificial Insemination and out of wedlock babies lead to giant robots fighting in space?

Spoiler for :

lets forget the battle of mechas, just focus how coordinator created

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

I think it was mentioned somewhere Miyuki's identity will be publicly revealed but whatever.
Miyuki will be the heir and she will be forced to marry someone with powerful genes, even if they want to use the sperm of someone, they'll need to ask of course .
The master clans are superstars, when their wedding will be announced, that will be big news. Miyuki's future status doesn't allow her not be married.

All the labs did inhuman things in the past, the 4th more than the others but nowadays this is toned down, they do experiences but they aren't like before. I don't think a lot of the couple were in love when they produced offsprings, that's a tradition.
The real problem with Miyuki is that she wants her brother Tatsuya.
Before starting worshiping him I am sure she had accepted her fate, but now she hates other men.

Yes, Miyuki will be revealed (when she graduates i think).
That does not directly lead to her being forced into a marriage.
No doubt there will be lot of people calling for her marriage (in fiction and out, just like in this thread), but that does not automatically lead to marriage.

And labs did inhuman things in the past, and Yotsuba does inhuman things now (Tatsuya's operation, Sakura series, guardian system, assassinations), buying sperm (or stealing for that matter), is not something they would object to from moral stand point.

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by HasNoLove

Spoiler for :

lets forget the battle of mechas, just focus how coordinator created

We went past that point decades ago.
remember the labs?
Sakura series?
Leo's background?

Genie is out of the bottle.

Also, i have not at any point suggested they should genetically manipulate anyone's offspring.

Just pointing out that sex and marriage are not actually required for breeding, even today.

At most i have suggested artificial insemination (being done today), or premarital sex.

[Chosen_Hero]

(Reads comments)... Well I'm going to be avioding this thread for the foreseeable future. The lengths people will go to force their opinions is astounding. Well see ya.

[Lazy cat]

Originally Posted by J4n1

Yes, Miyuki will be revealed (when she graduates i think).
That does not directly lead to her being forced into a marriage.
No doubt there will be lot of people calling for her marriage (in fiction and out, just like in this thread), but that does not automatically lead to marriage.

And labs did inhuman things in the past, and Yotsuba does inhuman things now (Tatsuya's operation, Sakura series, guardian system, assassinations), buying sperm (or stealing for that matter), is not something they would object to from moral stand point.

well miyuki herself said that the time she will have to get married is not far away, and i don't think maya is going to let miyuki do as she please, a prof of that is minami that has been introduced into their house to keep one eye on them (i foresee a conflict between miyuki and minami in a near future). so unless something change until then miyuki marriage is unavoidable

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by Lazy cat

well miyuki herself said that the time she will have to get married is not far away, and i don't think maya is going to let miyuki do as she please, a prof of that is minami that has been introduced into their house to keep one eye on them (i foresee a conflict between miyuki and minami in a near future). so unless something change until then miyuki marriage is unavoidable

Not unavoidable.
Extremely likely, but not unavoidable.
The main thing is that Miyuki has been raised to conform to certain preconceptions, so it's unlikely she will go against them even if she did not like them, or if they were not actually all the necessary.

My main point has been consistently that, if she really wants to, and is willing to go for it, she could avoid marriage, and that marriage is not really necessary for the main objectives of a marriage (more mages + Yotsuba heir), because other options exist.

I don't see the main conflict or drama about the marriage being about inevitability of the marriage, but a struggle inside Miyuki about whether she keeps following the preconceived notions of society, or will she break free and do what she wants.

It's not even the struggle of mages as weapons or demand for more mages, but same struggle lot of people in a conformist society go through.

[Echizen777]

Miyuki is already very very popular, so popular policemen want her autograph. And she is so much more than her peers, it's a wonder people didn't ask her if she is from the TMCs. So beautiful, so popular and refusing to get married? The world won't permit her to do that. talented.

Tatsuya may help her but even Tatsuya can't fight against the world.

[DarkSilverSky]

People that are saying that Miyuki will soon marry, are just forgetting about the brocon Tatsuya.
Miyuki is the only reason he has to live, since he pretty much has very little material desires and can only love his sister.
The thing is that Tatsuya won't give Miyuki to people unwhorty of having her, and he has huge standarts( since he consideres Lina has a simple trainning for his sister) and the only group of people he respects are his battalion and the elder Kudou, which have no interest in her sister.
For his family trying to make miyuki the head, Tatsuya said in the earlier volumes that he won't always submit to the Yotsuba clan and that he his planning to do something, when they decide to reveal Miyuki to the public.

And, on a different note, what do you think of the idea of Yotsuba clan buying Tatsuya, since he his treated as a tool by his father(he isn't a magician, so why should he care that his power isen't actually magic and treat him with no love unlike miyuki)? Even the magic he has that belong to the Yotsuba family were only gained after the experiment he had which may indicate he was never part of the family.