Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by neobosco

yeah, and why is that?
because they played with his brain, they transformed him from a boy to a robot (not literally)

so is really his choice? he wanted to become a real magician? he wanted to be a guardian?

that's the problem, he was forced to do the operation, later even if he was willing to do the training, you could say that was his free choice?

Given we have zero information about anything to do with these choices no one can say. Just as there is no info this was not force on him there is none that it was. But going off of Tatsuyas thoughts during the 9 schools comp. the one thing he wanted was to be part of the family. Had the operation work he would have been, failing that his only option to fulfill that wish was to become a guardian (Mayuki even thinks the family did that for him out of pity at first in vol 8) so it is very possible it was all his idea.

no

Spoiler for volume 8:

"Well, the ground facilities are still used in order to test a magician’s performance, and the martial arts gym especially sees much use…… the smell of death the Major still senses, are most likely now the bodies of the magicians who didn’t make the cut."

"And so are the Guardians of the Yotsuba tempered, literally side by side with death. I see, so that’s why you people need so little training after joining the military; even the children are formidable."

That still does not prove it was the Yotsuba that required anti interrogation training. Sakurai isn't marked up in scars from it and she went through the required level of training as well. Also even his current level of training can be described in the same way as a slight misstep will likely result in major injuries do you think what he is going though for his ninja training is abusive? Even Erika has been training at what could easily be deadly levels since a young age and I have yet to see people crying abuse about her.

[willx]

Originally Posted by kagato3

Even Erika has been training at what could easily be deadly levels since a young age and I have yet to see people crying abuse about her.

Cause she's not covered in scars? Remember:

Many were cuts.
Just as many were punctures.
There were some minor burn marks in places.
Oddly enough there was no trace of fractures, but even accounting for that it was not a body raised in a usual way.
Mere normal training could never do this.
Nor could simply training until your blood ran.
Only actually being cut, stabbed, and burned, until blood flowed as if under torture, or perhaps the training itself was torture; could produce such a body. Precisely because Erika understood, she didn't scream out loud.

Are you seriously making the case that burning yourself, puncturing yourself and otherwise making yourself able to resist torture .. would somehow make himself more powerful?

It doesn't make you physically stronger, it doesn't improve your magic, it's not skills or martial arts training ..

[Waxman]

Where its said it was done by himself?
.
He has scars os cuts and puctures, its really so hard to imagine a young Tatsuya, one before he could use regrowth in himself to make the wound dissapear not training but fighting for real against real assasins armed with real blades who wanted to kill him? For the burning marks what about a real fight against a magician who wield magics who use fire?
.
Remember the prelude of double seven, Minami was the target of an assault team that she eliminated, Tatsuya who (at the time) only counted with gram dispersion/demolition and fisical prowess surely was in tights spots at the beginning.

[Ultragunner]

wait, what???? Are you guys saying that Tatsuya voluntarily let himself be injured? Oh come on

All the scars on Tatsuya's body is a way for the author to indicate that Tatsuya had undergone some unimaginably hellish training, where he might have been treated less than a human being. Also, we still have no idea whether Tatsuya's abilities had been perfect when he was younger, it is highly possible that while it would have prevented him from dying but not to the point where he could keep his skin pretty.

About the torture stuff, IMO, it's just like in many prisons (especially in the past), prisoners are often taken out and tortured for no apparent reasons, and I doubt the training facility of the Yotsuba is humane enough to stay clear out of it.

In vol 8, the only reason Tatsuya endured and suppressed his regenerating ability was because he "felt" responsible for putting Miyuki in danger, not because he wanted to train or anything

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by willx

Cause she's not covered in scars? Remember:



Are you seriously making the case that burning yourself, puncturing yourself and otherwise making yourself able to resist torture .. would somehow make himself more powerful?

It doesn't make you physically stronger, it doesn't improve your magic, it's not skills or martial arts training ..

We don't have information about when, why or who is the cause of the scars. Given Miyuki's almost pride in them I think it is highly likely they were not forced on him , do you think the over emotional brocon would be proud of them if they were caused by anything she would consider abuse?

[Waxman]

Again, why assume Tatsuya was as good as he is now when he was a child, not on purpose but due to his lack of skill at the time, he was wounded while fighting an adversary that really wanted to kill him.

[crim]

Why would we assume he was good with the two magics he was born with, because they are the ones he was born with.

Even his mother recognized he took those two magics to the max.

vol 8 chap 14

"From the time he was born, Tatsuya could use only two types of ‘magic’. Decomposition of Eidos, and reconstruction of Information Bodies. Within the concept of these two categories Tatsuya has devised a variety of techniques he can use, but however far you take them, with just those two, it is impossible to alter Information Bodies as a true magician should."

Although we still don't know which came first being proficient in restoration or the hellish training.

Assuming he could heal why wouldn't he? If we look in vol 8 chap 6

"How could you leave a terrible blow like this without treatment!"
Sakurai-san was probably scolding my brother.
"It’s nothing major. There is no compromising damage to the bone."
"Don’t act as if everything’s fine as long as nothing’s broken! Doesn’t it hurt!?"
"There is pain. However, it’s nothing more than a penalty I have set upon myself."
Pain?
Penalty?
—What are they talking about?

You could make the argument his pain penalty thing was in effect on his training.

In the end there is still a lot unknown about the timeline of his early life, so we can't make a definitive answer on it.

[Waxman]

One of the test of Minami to become a guarian included neutralizing an assault team who attacked her.
.
This may be really implausible for some people but please tell me what its more logical:
.
Tatsuya as a child who has yet to master his autoregrowth, tied up to a wall while someone, maybe Maya herself cut, stab and burn him or...
.
Tatsuya, same age, who has yet to reach the level of combat he showed at the age of 13 neutralizing an assasing, meaybe a hitman paid by the Yotsuba themselves, maybe some punks from a street gang, the result Tatsuya kill his target, gain experience with a real adversary (one that don't follow rules, that don't fight in a dojo) but in the precess its wounded, cut, stabed or even burned.
.
So wich its more possible?

[sting]

If everything that happened to tats was of his own volition, why would the yotsuba be afraid that he might betray them in the future? I think there is something they are guilty of, something grand enough to incite tats to betray them.

[Waxman]

The reason Tatsuya might betray the Yotsuba its very simple. Its the same reason he disobeyed a direct order from Maya, Miyuki.
.
As much a high position she has or may have in the clan, the Yotsuba existence, and the status quo in what the Yotsuba cement its power (magic/magicians as weapons) will very likely threathen her sooner or later, beign the head of a clan its not a simple matter that doesn't entail any peril, there are many things that can present that will be dangerous for Miyuki and im not talking about fisical dangers only. If we all know what Tatsuya will do to things that threathen his little sister so does Maya.

[sting]

Then that lays to waste the logic "let's make miyuki the clan head to prevent that moster from betraying the yotsuba"

[Waxman]

Actually it show the differences between Maya logic and Tats. Where Maya think as a humanoid weapon and consider ways to prevent Tatsuya from fighting the Yotsuba directly Tatsuya consider ways of change the society so that a fight isn't necesary.

[Voceane]

Originally Posted by willx

Cause she's not covered in scars? Remember:



Are you seriously making the case that burning yourself, puncturing yourself and otherwise making yourself able to resist torture .. would somehow make himself more powerful?

It doesn't make you physically stronger, it doesn't improve your magic, it's not skills or martial arts training ..

I think he never try to use regrow on a human before he sees Miyumi nearly dead. Otherwise why did he not heal the wound from the fight on the beach. When he see he'll loose Miyuki, he is stuck with despair and try to restore back the body but as it's the first time he share his love for her and create a siscon/brocon couple.

[Ultragunner]

like I have said above, the reason why Tatsuya did not heal his wound in vol 8 was because he felt responsible for putting Miyuki in danger (when they are at the beach and some thugs tried to approach the two of them)

And yes, it is true that he had never used Regrowth on anyone until he saw Miyuki got shot

[Makall]

So what did Miya do to Maya exactly?

Changing Experience to Knowledge? Didn't quite understand the explanation and why Maya freaked out so much.

[Ultragunner]

it is just like how it sounds, for example:

_ Maya went to the theme park when she was small => experience,
_ now she only "knows" that she had gone there in the past but never actually "feels" or "experiences" the event.

what Miya did was the alteration of all of Maya's past experience (including all the bad and good) into knowledge => everything up to that point in Maya's life had just been made "unreal" because for her, she didn't really go through all that. In other words, Maya felt that she was never "alive" , thus she accused her sister for "killing" her.

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by Makall

So what did Miya do to Maya exactly?

Changing Experience to Knowledge? Didn't quite understand the explanation and why Maya freaked out so much.

Miya changed all her experiences up to that point from experience into knowledge. It made her sane again, but at the same time "killed" the Maya who had existed up to that point. After all, past experience molds a person into who they are.

Little wonder she was upset.

[hakazee]

Originally Posted by Waxman

Actually it show the differences between Maya logic and Tats. Where Maya think as a humanoid weapon and consider ways to prevent Tatsuya from fighting the Yotsuba directly Tatsuya consider ways of change the society so that a fight isn't necesary.

Really funny.
Maya only thinks about power and war.
Tatsuya thinks about peace.

[Ultragunner]

More like Maya cares about the Yotsuba clan with its prestige, power & influence,

but for Tatsuya, he wouldn't give a damn about those things, he only wishes to be with Miyuki and live without any troubles

[kagato3]

It's possible that Maya also wants to end the mages as weapons as well but do to being the head of a master clan and not being able to produce results that work toward this goal her hands are tied. One of the outcomes of the operation if secessful that Tatsuya was given would be anyone could become a mage. If that was the case then mages would be no different from normal people and there would be no reason to force the roll of weapons on them.

it is clear that the Yotsuba will come down hard on any group that is working counter to mages rights such as Blanche.