2013-01-01, 14:57 | Link #6861 |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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And why exactly is that a bad idea?
Hardis dreaming with infecting Teana seems to indicate the infection of one of the main characters (or even a side character for that matter) is not entirely impossible. I could find it pretty itneresting. Ginga's brainwashing on StrikerS was a pretty cool idea but ultimately elads to nowhere. If a character with more roots than her gets infected then we could have an interesting conflict at hands xD EDIT: Page claimed for a Happy New year were Signum can find happiness in her new life as a housewife xD
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Last edited by Akiyoshi; 2013-01-01 at 15:38. |
2013-01-01, 19:52 | Link #6862 | |||||
Banned
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Nanoha could have been another Sailor Moon. It wasn't. I, for one, am glad of that. Even if it means we get something like Vivid. Quote:
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Okay, I'll grant that there is a bit of a different feeling in Force... but like everything else since S1, the aspects and potential for certain aspects were always there in the background. Tsuzuki is just using this story to bring them to the fore in order to explore them. Rather than give us the exact same thing over and over, he likes to explore the implication of various things. But this doesn't mean magic isn't still being used as a staple of conflict. Just because your opponent can make thick armor that completely negate bullets, do you stop using bullets. Everything still has a use. Hell, in this age where the US can strike any location on Earth with a missile, we still have boats and fleets that travel around the world. But I bet you, before this manga is over, we'll see a Starlight Breaker from Nanoha that will be crucial in handling a crucial confrontation. Probably fired alongside Thoma's Divide Zero or something. And in the future, you will see people with magic fighting alongside cyborgs with their energy, and fighting alongside those with the Eclipse with their energy, fighting alongside who-knows-who-else... and you'll see Nanoha there, at 82 years old, gathering magic for a Starlight Breaker. The universe is going to change, Aki. It's fine not to like it, but it is a fact of life. So it is something you have to learn how to deal with on your own. You're wishing for the world to stop and to freeze in time, but that won't happen. But the seeds of change were there, and unless you want to completely ignore real-world implications like most magical girl shows do(Sailor Moon, Cardcaptor Sakura), then you have to address them. In the real world, no force or power is ever 100% the answer to everything. Unless you're like me and want to nuke the entire world. |
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2013-01-02, 04:32 | Link #6863 | ||||||||||||
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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We've got a slow, cutesy, clumsy-handle political story instead xDU (don't believe me on the cutesy part? go back and watch those filler episodes entirely filled with diabetically sugarcoated interactions between freaking everyone i mean, once in a while is fine but for a moment i tought Nanoha's cheeks where stuck in blush mode xDU). Quote:
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Assuming he's the only guy smart enough in the freaking multiverse to develope anti-magic tech is almost as wrong as assuming Tony Stark is the only one who can make a functional powered armor xDU Quote:
Now that we talk about origins of magic and S1 i would've liked to see more of the misteries of the first opening about Nanoha and Raising Heart in all sorts of misterious and mystical locations like a lost temple or an ominious lake ..it was very imaginative an interesting imagery ...that could make some interesting story full of magic, bravery and creativity. I don't mind the magitek but some misticism is much needed in recent times of the franchise. Quote:
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a) Nanoha gets to master a more primordial form of "true magic" or... b) Raising Heart gets the revised enhacement of the %th Gen upgrade.... Quote:
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And it's fun you mention Card Captor Sakura there because it does something more interesting than just "ignoring" the real world implications, the story plays with those and develope very creative and interesting methods to justify the low influence of said "real world implications" (Clow Reed is a freaking mastermind worthy of Xanatos). Sometimes i feel like wanting to nuke the world ...with MAGIC XD!
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2013-01-02, 20:13 | Link #6864 | |||||||
Banned
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Hell, look at how long it took them to make Hayate's device (Rein)! In short, the 6 year wait for prototypes has both real world analogues, and in-universe precedent. Quote:
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Look, at this point, this conversation is mostly pointless. You have your opinion of what you would like, but you'll have to accept that you aren't getting it. You'll either have to learn to like what we have, stick with just fanfiction that floats your boat, or find another series. And you'll just have to accept that magic isn't the be-all end-all... hell, Nanoha is one of the very few series that actually addresses magic as it would exist alongside technology. Given how much both elements are woven into the narrative, I highly doubt we'll soon see an absence of either... but both have their prominent moments. |
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2013-01-02, 22:27 | Link #6865 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
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You should really stop talking about the number of episodes when this is a manga, honestly. They're too different things, even if some shows (One Piece) like to turn one chapter into one episode no matter what these days.
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2013-01-03, 01:02 | Link #6867 | ||||||||||
The Flame Crussader
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By the way, fanfiction is barely an option as most of the actual ones are really missing the original concept of the series, generating tons of "out-of-character" moments, focusing disturbingly much on fanservice or becoming full on rip-offs of mecha-like series denigrating magic use even further than FORCE.
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2013-01-03, 01:12 | Link #6868 |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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You were the one who was comparing Force to having a 1-cour pacing, not Kaijo. Kaijo said it should be compared to a 2-cour season like StrikerS, with StrikerS' episode 7 being equivalent progress-wise to 3 or 4 episodes in a 1-cour season like Nanoha or A's. Try not to twist others' words like that again, Aki, no one appreciates it.
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2013-01-03, 01:21 | Link #6869 | |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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....but if you look back you'll see what i'm saying. I was complaining about StrkerS pacing and he agreed with me on it's problems. Yet at the same time says we should take FORCE as a 26 Ep installement like StrikerS while still comparing it to A's, i get what you're saying but if that's the case we should stop using "but it's only like Ep 7 of A's" as justification. Then again that was just a suguestion, make of that what you want.
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2013-01-03, 21:06 | Link #6871 | ||||||
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In short, what I've been trying to tell Aki and Sansker, is that we're still near the beginning of a story, and thus it is only natural that there are things we don't know yet. Sure, if the manga ends in the next two chapters, I'll look a little silly saying this... but my gut says otherwise. At any rate, having things we don't know is only an issue, if they are important to the plot and left unresolved by the time the story ends. Quote:
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Making new things is hard. The Air Force's ABL (Air Borne Laser) project was started in 1996. The first ground firing of the unit was in 2004... 8 years later. If you can't wrap your head around how long it takes to develop things, then the concept will forever escape you. Quote:
And Rayearth is known solely for it's twist ending. In fact, that was the whole idea behind the punch factor; up until that point, it had been fairly typical of a magical fantasy story, almost cliche. Because it did something different, it is remembered. *You* may want the standard cliche fantasy story, but that doesn't mean everyone else does. And if you want that, you have plenty of choices. For those of us who like something different, Nanoha is all we have. Why must everything be the same? Why can't you let people have their one series that is different? Quote:
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Besides, we had batteries in A's, too. They were called cartridges. |
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2013-01-03, 22:11 | Link #6872 | ||||||||||
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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To make an interesting note, Season 2 do dealt with some political issues as the ending of the first season left the magical land vulnerable to armies coming from countries coming from neighboor planets. But instead of going yadda, yadda on conferences, conspirations and stuff it managed to take it on a more action-oriented and epic way. Yeah, Rayearth's ending was one it's greatest contributions to the mahou shoujo genre, but wasn't the only one, it also shown their work in showing magical girls who can take direct blows, bleed and carry on some quite rough and nasty fights (Hikaru in particular, the girl must end up brutally and bloodilly beaten up at least once per season xDU) ...as also how being alone in an alien world can affect a psyque as influentiable and innocent as the one from a young teenager (Season 2 is mostly about dealing with the trauma and grief caused by the events of season 1). Sorry if i got a bit overcarried about this issue but Rayearth was one of my key otaku-forming experiences ....and probably one of the reasons i got hooked up with the Nanoha franchise as well ...Nanoha A's and specially the Wolkenritter brought me back so many awesome memories. Quote:
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But in a "realistic" enviroment, like the ones you mentioned, it will be foolish to assume that once a technology that proves to be higly successfull against the stablished law-enforcing methods other criminal groups will not try to cash on said new tech to rise their success chances on their own operations and goals. In fiction (specially in american comics) this is one of the most likely to happen scenarios, just as "some people" (the Grendels at least so far) are trying to put their claws on AEC-Equipement it would be no surprise EC virus or Divider technology is currently being experimented on by more groups aside of Vandin Corp. in order to ensure an efective anti-mage response. Quote:
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If you're fan of stuff like Macross and the like i guess you have no trouble with that ...but some people liked the variety of characters and powers as also the sense of "uniqueness" each fighter and it's style had (in fact that's one of the few saving graces of ViVid, i do like how it's trying to make an effort to introduce new and crative ways to use magic ...but the knowledge of all those cool magical styles being useless by the time FORCE comes around reduces the enjoyment quite a bit, tough).
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Last edited by Akiyoshi; 2013-01-03 at 22:27. |
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2013-01-03, 23:58 | Link #6873 |
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Aki, this is mostly going off topic, so I'll just end it now.
I will say that, yes, it appears I misunderstood your Rayearth mecha comment a bit. But considering that Season 2 was mostly all mecha combat, I can hardly find any complaint how Nanoha is being handled. Especially when the creator is a big Super Robot Wars fan and based Nanoha off it. It's no surprise, then, that Nanoha has some mecha elements. New weapons fit that mold, and thus the Force "changes" are just what we should have expected. Bottom line: Force will continue as is. You can choose to like it or not, read it or not. Just understand it won't go the way you want. Force isn't 100% going the way I want, either, but the last step of learning to deal with any kind of grief, is acceptance. I don't know what the future holds for this franchise, but we just had an A's movie released, and Innocent seems to be more magical girly, so there's that. There is also a series of games that has magical girly fights. And perhaps you'll get another movie that isn't StrikerS, but that continues another magical girly adventure. So, I'd ask that you stow your doom and gloom, but then again, given your past reactions to certain things, I'd be asking for the impossible, wouldn't I? |
2013-01-04, 00:13 | Link #6874 | |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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I don't hate mecha nor i thing that much about fluffy magical girls (in that sense i mostly agree with you, the ones who manage to makes to propose something unique are the ones that stick with me, Card Captor Sakura and Rayearth both offer unique plot elements never touched before them ....in fact, CCS is the rightfull predecessor of Nanoha's generation). Again, what made the show great for me was the unique blending of BOTH elements into one awesome work. Ripping those elements appart is what i consider to be foolish ...seems this was dragged so long you just forgot what was my initial complain at all. I'm done for now because you're right with this growing a bit far from FORCE's plot ...you're also right in that i'll be here to apport new viewpoints as more chapters comes out and i see how they turn out to be in terms of plot-developement.
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2013-01-04, 10:44 | Link #6875 |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
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Then to return to the thread to its original purpose, and to take matters on better directions, why we don't talk about something I think we haven't talk this far or at least not too much: what we like in Force. (This should be a short one to me) Because I did think there is some good down there, otherwise I would not even start with the manga.
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2013-01-04, 17:04 | Link #6879 |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Well, as i also mentioned before ...FORCE do have it's own merits (even if those are usually overshadowed by it's flaws).
The concept of the Huckebein family is actually pretty amusing but the manga seems to ping pong around how dire their situation really is (sometimes they try to be tragic characters while other times they seem to genuinely enjoy their abilities and situation just fine xDU). Among them some members also have interesting potential for developement ...to me Veyron is so far the most interesting of them with Curren as a close second (plus Curren fit part of my desire for an ultimate badass with no equal) they seems to keep some key misterioes to themselves and Curren, while not super brilliant, gets to keep things intriguing about her plan. Other good thing about FORCE culd be Fate & Bardiche's developement ...it was very welcome that she managed to keep most of her original powerset and character traits (in direct contrast with Signum and others) also, so far she has been shown to be S6's most competent member on what we've seen of the Eclipse case so far ...managing to keep up not only with Cypha but also with a reacted Deville (Fate failed to do any significant damage but also managed to avoid being injured herself while keeping the teleporting hulk at bay). As much as i hate what this season has done to Signum i find interesting her sisterly bonding with Tohma. I know this will be soon overshadowed by his relationship with Subaru but at least it's nice to see Signum can develope relationships outside the battlefield with people other than her allies or foes on the battlefield. Usually when a badass character stops being a badass the plot compensates said loss by expanding it's character and giving it more dimensional developement ...i doubt we get to see that but at least Signum's guilt over her defeat seem to be good intentioned in that direction. Tohma himself, despite some issues i have with him, came as a breath of fresh air on the franchise ...i always wanted guys doing soemthing more than being punching bags or minor characters but i never expected one of them would actually get a star role in a Nanoha season ....my main beef with Tohma is not about his gender but more likely about his initial blandness and the clumcsy efforts the story made to justify his presence (turns out most of the old cast already knows and like him? ...C'moooon!) but the kid slowly started making his own merits ...it's a good intentioned boy with a harsh past and an internal conflict ...the conflict so far is mostly an excuse as we don't see the effects of it but his good natured side is convincing enough for me, his desire to help the Huckebein wasn't instantly well received by the rest of the cast and the story doesn't pit him as a saint for that which is something i also liked ...it's adressed Tohma is a young boy who is still emtoinal and influentiable and thus prone to commit mistakes. Nanoha was always a wee bit too mature, secure and self-confident and the story never discussed her actions or descicions no matter how reckless those were ...granted, it's one of her defining characteristics and i love her for doing it (i loooove do-right heroes xD!) and what i like about Tohma is that he's trying to be his own character (the key word being "trying") instead of a Mini-Nanoha clone like Subaru. One of the things i like about his relationship with Signum is that is a newly fresh started relationship so i can witness the develope of their bond ..instead of it happening of-screen and the narration trying to force me into feeling something about stuff i don't really care. More recently the Grendel Family, say what you want about them ...they're goofy, they're weak, they're a bunch of reckles bimbos ...but even in spite of that thye managed to twist the story which is something i'm really greatefull for (the utterly annoying "it's all about the Huckebein" atmosphere that reigned for most of the story finally eased a bit xD). They appeared as the classic "Team Rocket" squad of comic relief villains but in an interesting subversion is revealed they're in fact competent foes enough to be a threat despite their goofiness and mroe shockingly that Carter (the goofiest of them all) have started showing hidden depths indicating his spot as leader is not only by luck or because of the other girl's genre blindness ...he's a capable leader and is currently unfazed even when they seem to be in a dire spot with the TSAB right now (not only he keeps a cool head but is able to smile widely in the face of disgrace which is a goddamn awesome quality i would wish to have). So far he and his team have captured my attention and i'm eager to know what the story have prepared for them. They fact it's also stablished they're the weakest villain team also let me to ease my expectations on them and be impressed by their future planst to overcome obstacles. Lolo and Quinn need to be fleshed out more and so far i find Maria's interactions with Carter pretty amusing xD
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2013-01-04, 18:12 | Link #6880 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
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As for my own two cents, I like the concept of anti-magic and how the wide use of magic, and even ecountering magic is brought into question. Aswe learned in StrikerS, to prevent the use of mass developed and destructive weapons as before, magic was put into use as a replacement as it can be controlled how lethal it is. Also, magic serves as daily function and used to power everything in Midchilda. This wide use became a bite in the but when Jail's AMF drones came into play. I'm hoping this forces an inquiry if all this magic is a good thing. I also mentioned a person's encounter with magic to be fortunate or not. With Nanoha, it was a fortunate encounter. Fate was at first unfortunate, but changed to fortunate after meeting Nanoha. Finally, Hayate's was fortunate as she met her familty through it. We never looked iinto a person's encounter that was unfortunate. I believe we'll see that soon.
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manga, nanoha force |
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